Dinner Party Etiquette

A note about flowers: I was taught, and it's in books, that it's best to forgo the flowers for the evening and send them along the next day with a note expressing how good of a time you had and thanking the host. If you feel you have to give flowers at the event, then you have to make pains to ensure the hostess/host can plunk them down on a counter and forget it, with a vase included.

Candy and spirits are always acceptable. I personally just don't give alcohol, and I have decanters with alcohol in them, so I tend not to get it either.

Bump!

How do you deal with guests when they act extremely inappropriately, and you're in too delicate of a social situation to simply stop inviting them?

My parent's host a dinner party every once in a while, and lately when they do, they invite an old childhood friend of my mother's. My mum and her twin sister used to be good buddies with this man in middle school and have fairly recently gotten in touch with him again. I posted about the ruckus he caused at one of these dinners in the "Happy Drunk/Mean Drunk" thread. I classified him as a loud, argumentative drunk - Get the idea?

He binge drinks in front of us, but even when sober, he talks about nobody but himself and is an expert on everything, not caring who's intelligence he insults. He dominates the conversation, orders people about, and overstays his welcome. My father has asked him nicely not to bring his own case(s) of beer along, but he ignores this request every time.

I'm at the point where I want to stop attending my parents' dinners because of him, but I don't want to hurt my mother's feelings. Part of me thinks I shouldn't be forced out of my own family gatherings, but I can only tolerate him for so long (say, 5 minutes.)

If you have similar stories, please share.

Although I enjoy my in-laws' company (been married over 20 years) I made it very clear from the very beginning that the main difference between in-laws and outlaws was that the latter were wanted...

But of course they are welcome at any time. Which is also very easy for me to say considering they live in another country

I took the hint from my mother and when we organise a dinner we never specify when to arrive, but the time at which we will start our meal. And we've enforced it strictly.

The 3 or 4 people that arrived after start ups over the years are still friends. But they have never been late since. As to those who arrive "early" (i.e. when we are not ready) they'll just give us a hand and help us to be ready on time.

C-dot said:

My father has asked him nicely not to bring his own case(s) of beer along, but he ignores this request every time.

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Anything consumable brought to a party is either for general consumption (as in a pot-luck dinner) or a gift to the host/hostess (who has no obligation to serve it).
Perhaps you father could politely thank him for the beer when he arrives, and then take it out and lock it in the garage.

dnjan said:

Anything consumable brought to a party is either for general consumption (as in a pot-luck dinner) or a gift to the host/hostess (who has no obligation to serve it).
Perhaps you father could politely thank him for the beer when he arrives, and then take it out and lock it in the garage.

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He would have to be sneaky about it, and say it before the man in question announces "I brought my own Corona!"

Incidentally, nobody else drinks Corona.

^^^
I think the real question is why do your folks keep inviting this lout? His friendship with your mom was of at least 30 years ago I assume? Is he that important a part of her youth? Ask your folks what's going on, and let them know how you feel. Either there's something that will make him more tolerable, or you can cold-shoulder him with a clear conscience.

Bluebird Marsha said:

^^^
I think the real question is why do your folks keep inviting this lout? His friendship with your mom was of at least 30 years ago I assume? Is he that important a part of her youth? Ask your folks what's going on, and let them know how you feel. Either there's something that will make him more tolerable, or you can cold-shoulder him with a clear conscience.

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My mother likes the guy for some reason - she says she's used to him. He does have good qualities, but they are far outweighed. My father isn't too fond of him either, so I try and keep still like he does. Its really difficult, though, when he undermines my career choice, or attacks what he perceives are my political beliefs, or gets soused and nearly breaks my belongings.

It's much easier when my aunt is there, because although shes friends with him too, she will tell him where to go if he crosses the line.

C-dot said:

My mother likes the guy for some reason - she says she's used to him. He does have good qualities, but they are far outweighed. My father isn't too fond of him either, so I try and keep still like he does. Its really difficult, though, when he undermines my career choice, or attacks what he perceives are my political beliefs, or gets soused and nearly breaks my belongings.

It's much easier when my aunt is there, because although shes friends with him too, she will tell him where to go if he crosses the line.

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Maybe start lying to him about when the party starts?

May I ask: does he drive himself home after drinking that much?

sheeplady said:

Maybe start lying to him about when the party starts?

May I ask: does he drive himself home after drinking that much?

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Oh no, he brings his wife, and she doesn't touch a drop. As much as I'd hate having him for overnight company, he wouldn't be getting those keys back if he was alone.

This fellow sounds obnoxious and rude, to say the least. As I've aged I have found that I suffer fools less gladly...to the point that I simply don't suffer them at all any more. If he turns your attendance at the dinner party into a thoroughly unpleasant experience, why do it? I don't know your relationship with your parents but can you just explain to you mother that this boor's presence upsets you... a lot... and that you really can't attend their dinner party? Don't make is a him or me situation, just explain your dilemma. Perhaps she won't invite him so often. Frankly I'd rather sit at home with a can of beans watching reruns of Gomer Pyle than put up with that sort of nonsense.

This sort of advice is a lot easier to give than to actually do. Just a thought. (I can't stand the idea of someone being bullied at their own parent's house...grrrrrr.)

Imitate your aunt. Bite back.

Bluebird Marsha said:

Imitate your aunt. Bite back.

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You're quite right. Even if he doesn't get it or ignores it, some cutting sarcasm will make me feel better Of course, if he tells me again that I don't know anything about my field of work, I may have to become direct. If I really can't deal with him, my relationship with my parents is good enough that I can tell them honestly, like DNO says.

Thank-you to everyone who responded, I really appreciate the advice.

"Charles, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask Father to ask you to leave..." is all that needs to be said. Then do it. If your father won't step up, then simply excuse yourself, and leave. If your mother says anything, politely explain that as much as you love and respect her, you are under no obligation to suffer insults or embarrassment from her friends, especially in your parents' home.

You are, after all, entitled to at least the same level of respect as your mother's former boy friend.

Just to run back to the original topic quickly - I try to avoid the entire mess of too early/too late, and I prefer to show up on time; literally on the minute. Personally, I would prefer my guests did the same should I throw a party. If I say it starts at 6, be there at 6, not 6:15, or else expect the finger food to have been gobbled entirely and a second round of cordials passed. [huh]

Regarding C-dot's dilemma: unfortunately, you cannot choose your mother's friends or dinner guests for her. Equally as unfortunate, you must decide which you prefer, an evening with a lout to spare your mother's feelings, or an evening alone to save your sanity.

If you were a friend of mine, I would suggest you gracefully bow out of the invitation, even making this a habit if necessary. When the inevitable question arises, you simply state the truth; i.e. you're unable to enjoy yourself around the boorish guest. You value your mother's company, and perhaps you could treat her to a dinner elsewhere at her convenience.

There are other means to this end as well, such as leaving dinner early, or simply having a face-to-face with mom. In the end, you must decided on your mother's feelings or your own sanity.

I'm quite sure my mother would take it all in her stride if I did opt out of the evenings - After all, she didn't blame my brother. He has never been one to attend family evenings anyway, but he made a cameo at the last dinner. In less than 10 minutes, the guy had picked a fight with him - and this was the first time they had met (and the last thus far). My brother made an excuse and left, but the guy continued on for a good half hour (and two beers) about their argument.

I have frankly expressed my distaste at his behaviour to my mum, and her advice is to "just ignore him," and let what he says go in one ear and out the other. My father and aunt say the same aswell. It makes me feel awfully rigid in comparison to them, especially since this guy makes digs at my father, too. I guess I'm just not that type of a person.

The next gathering is to take place at his house. I won't be attending, and my mum will have to understand that.

I like the comment above - bite back like your aunt. Since it's been an ongoing situation, and since your parents enable him by allowing him to continue by not reigning him in, continuing to invite him, and allow him to become drunk and disorderly with no repercussion, at some point, i think I would take the matter into my own hands. Your parents are clearly to blame. They invite him, knowing what his behavior is, and that he will be rude to you and others. Allowing one guest to knowingly make any other guest uncomfortable at a party is normally the hosts' area to deal with.

However, since they won't deal with it, they're encouraging it, and one doesn't have to politely sit by and take a verbal battering or be made uncomfortable by this lout. As mentioned above, the Coronas are a host/hostess gift and entirely up to the host/hostess if they choose to serve them then & there or save them for another time.

I would (and have, in a similar situation) send him a handwritten note explaining what an insensitive bore he is, that he should clearly do something about his drinking problem, and put him on notice you'll no longer stand for his antics. At the next event he attends, nail him the moment he first does anything out of line, no matter how minor. Nail him on each and every subsequent faux pas. Derail his monologues. "My, that's an interesting way of looking at the issue. What are your feelings, Aunt Mary?"

When he makes a crack about your father or aunt, call him on it. "My, that's a rather rude and uncalled for remark. I find it offensive to say such a thing to this evening's host, my father, who has the good graces to invite you back to his home, time and again after many, many of your diatribes."

Enlist your brother to help. Tell him no matter what, he doesn't cut & run. Work together on the common enemy. And it sounds as if your aunt would have great fun being brought into the plot. I do like the "I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask my father to ask you to leave... Father?" and if nothing's done, you stand & immediately leave idea. Save it for a dramatic moment. That's excellent and will grind the event to a halt. Standing up and leaving, and perhaps as a planned event with your brother, should send a very strong statement to the wrong-doers - your parents.

And I'm sure his long-suffering wife would give him an earful in the car on the way home.

We've all had or been at an event where there's someone like this who drives everyone insane. I simply never invite them again. And if it's someone at someone else's event, I'd probably put it up with it 2-3 times before I'd start asking, when the invitation is made, if so-and-so is attending. That's consider by most to be tacky, however...there are times where saving yourself a lot of grief by being a little tacky is more than understandable. But you're in the situation where this is an on-going happening at family events. Sometimes you just have to take a stand, and if it's as you state, everyone will rally round you.

An old friend of my mother's and aunt's was much like the above. At a large somewhat family event, I'd told my parents in advance that I was going to pass because Natalie was going to be there. I got the same "Oh, ignore her," although later my dad admitted he would have loved to deck the old biddy himself a few times over the decades. She made a very snide comment about a cousin (pregnant at 19 and boyfriend skipped). I called her on it. I don't know where I got the words - they just seemed to roll out of my mouth without thought. I'm told it was rather eloquent, including the long inside secret that she herself had gotten knocked up at 22 and there was basically a shot-gun wedding followed by her son being "prematurely" born at 7 months, and how dare she make light of someone else in the same situation. Onward with what a vile, nasty person she was and after all those years, I'd had my fill of her.

I stood up to bug-eyes, forks frozen between plate and mouth, and dead silence, until my grandmother stood up two tables down and start to clap and yell "Hear, hear!" which others joined in on. I walked out with my head held high...and then, of course, paniced in the car with "Oh my God...what HAVE I done?" My brother said he sat there for 10 minutes in shock that what I said sounded completely off the cuff as if I was reading from a script, and then he'd laugh...and then he'd think "Mom's gonna clobber him..." He did get a shot at Nat - she said after I'd left "What a little ba***rd!" My brother said, "No, the ba***rd is your son, remember?"

Mom wouldn't talk to me for weeks. Dad called the next day to say Mom was still livid, how could I embarrass Natalie in public like that with revealing "the secret" (which everyone had already known for decades), and said Mom was going to demand I apologize. "That's NEVER going to happen, Dad." "Good for you. I wouldn't either."

The only time we talked about it was when Mom said how could I shame 'Aunt Nat' like that in front of everyone. I said she'd had it coming for years, and how could Mom sit there and condone the old biddy making light of her own niece's situation, and wasn't blood thicker than water?

Thank-you very much for that, Mike! I couldn't help but feel very triumphant for you when you described taking Natalie down a peg. Someone needed to say it!

You're right, I'm tired of being made to feel like the wound-up hypersensitive brat every time I feel insulted by what he says, or offended by the digs he makes about my family - They may be able to ignore him, but for me its too difficult. Unfortunately, my mother tends to gloss over the fact that anyone may be rude to me (when I was younger, I had this problem with a cousin, and this is what she did) and my father, though he may understand and agree with me, will stand by my mother if I upset her. My brother will be absolutely no help to me: he refuses to socialize with the lout since they exchanged words, and I can't say as I blame him.

As said, I will decline any invitations to his place. The next time this guy goes to my parents', though, I will be there, and I won't stay quiet when he orders my father around, interrupts me, sounds off about something he knows nothing about, or insults my brother (all are an inevitability). When it all gets too much, I'll simply say "that's all, folks" and get in my car. He isn't any relation or concern of mine, so I don't have to take it. If my mother doesn't want to invite me over after that, that's her choice. We'll patch things up eventually.

I've always been of the belief that if a party or dinner is scheduled to begin at X o'clock, it MEANS X, not ten till, and not ten after. That said, I am one of the "early" crowd -- I would rather get somewhere half an hour early and sit in the car reading than arrive five minutes late.

Thank you Effingham,

I do it the exact same way. I hate being late!

It is not so much a matter of being "late" or "early"; The OP asked about etiquette.
Etiquette says you should arrive between 5 and 15 min after the specified time, although this varies from country to country (a Greek friend forced us to arrive 30 minutes late to a party at one of his friend, although it was quite a formal invitation).

Once you know that, you may choose to ignore etiquette, that is your privilege.