Akubra vs Borsalino Quality

m0nk · Jan 23, 2012

avedwards said:
Am I the only one who wears Akubras as dress hats? I wear my Fed IV (deluxe) and used to wear its predecessor (regular) with a suit nearly every day and I've never found them any more casual than other hats just because they're sturdy and hard wearing. The heritage quality felt on the Fed IV is quite soft anyway and can be creased without needing any water.

Therefore my advice would always be to go for an Akubra. They look good once you get the right crease and they are nearly indestructible. The only possible downside is the stiff felt but that softens over time and isn't as stiff on heritage quality hats.

I wear my moonstone Fed IV to work every day, somedays with a suit, others with "business casual", but always in a dress style. I really like the look, quality, and strength. I did trim the brim to an even 2 3/8", which gives it more of a dress look, but it also looks nice with jeans, etc.

carldelo · Jan 23, 2012

seed said:
Boy! I've been out of the loop for a minute, but it wasn't that long ago when most people (by far) here did not like modern Borsalinos, due to quality slippage to the point that they were considered poor in quality. Akubras, on the other hand were always held in high esteem for their reasonable price and solid toughness. Has anything changed in the last year or two to alter this perception?

I think in the last year or two there has been less brand bashing than there was when I first joined the lounge. People seem to realize that there is a continuum of quality from every brand, and that anecdotal evidence of bad hats here and there is not the same thing as conclusive proof of poor quality.

gtdean48 · Jan 23, 2012

seed said:
Boy! I've been out of the loop for a minute, but it wasn't that long ago when most people (by far) here did not like modern Borsalinos, due to quality slippage to the point that they were considered poor in quality. Akubras, on the other hand were always held in high esteem for their reasonable price and solid toughness. Has anything changed in the last year or two to alter this perception?

My "modern" Borsalino was made in the mid-1980's. It still does not hold a candle to the early 1950's Alessandria that I have. Judged against modern Stetsons, that 80's Borso is very lightweight & supple, more like a Stratoliner than what HatCo put out & labeled as such.
Akubras are still quite the value for the price. JMHO

Brent Hutto · Jan 23, 2012

Trying to absorb the accumulated wisdom of the Lounge archives occasionally leads to trouble distinguishing between these two concepts:

1) "Borsalinos from fifty years ago had far better quality felt and workmanship than modern Borsalinos"

and

2) "All modern Borsalinos are awful hats not worth owning"

The first statement can be true without implying the second statement in any way. Likewise with the syllogism:

A) "Borsalinos are more expensive than Akubras"
B) "Akubras are very nice hats and offer a great value"
Conclusion) "Borsalinos are awful hats and offer no value whatsoever"

Once again, the first two statements can be true without in any way implying the conclusion.

If you want a vintage hat, the Borsalinos can be outstanding. If you want a modern, stylish hat of lightweight felt the modern Borsalinos can be quite nice. if you want a modern hat of more substantial construction at a very attractive price the Akubras are wonderful. Isn't it nice to live in a world where so many tastes are catered to?

monbla256 · Jan 23, 2012

wgiceman said:
In modern day production, which is the better quality hat when comparing Akubra vs Borsalino? Please provide comments

The question is really a moot one. BOTH firms produce QUALITY fur felt hats of many different styles, but marketed to different markets. From a pure manufacturing standpoint, BOTH firms products are a quality item. Are they DIFFERENT ? Yes and that is what makes them each desireable, the DIFFERENCE. I would'nt buy an Akubra to wear with a bespoke tailored suit, but then I would not buy and wear a Borsolino to wear riding horseback in the Texas heat chasing a bunch of cows on a day to day basis. Depends on your needs and style you like really.

Hoyt Clagwell · Jan 24, 2012

I think a man should aspire to own some of each.

rlk · Jan 24, 2012

This is like comparing a manufacturer of ATV's to General Motors.

seed · Jan 24, 2012

Brent Hutto said:
Trying to absorb the accumulated wisdom of the Lounge archives occasionally leads to trouble distinguishing between these two concepts:

1) "Borsalinos from fifty years ago had far better quality felt and workmanship than modern Borsalinos"

and

2) "All modern Borsalinos are awful hats not worth owning"

The first statement can be true without implying the second statement in any way. Likewise with the syllogism:

A) "Borsalinos are more expensive than Akubras"
B) "Akubras are very nice hats and offer a great value"
Conclusion) "Borsalinos are awful hats and offer no value whatsoever"

Once again, the first two statements can be true without in any way implying the conclusion.

If you want a vintage hat, the Borsalinos can be outstanding. If you want a modern, stylish hat of lightweight felt the modern Borsalinos can be quite nice. if you want a modern hat of more substantial construction at a very attractive price the Akubras are wonderful. Isn't it nice to live in a world where so many tastes are catered to?

With all due respect, pretty much saying modern Borsalinos were subpar was extremely common on this forum. In fact, one of the most prominent critics here was Mr. Deckard, who was a moderator or bartender or whatever. I learned a lot from the critiques and I would hope that this site hasn't taken a stance that criticism is always inappropriate...especially when it is warranted.

avedwards · Jan 24, 2012

monbla256 said:
I would'nt buy an Akubra to wear with a bespoke tailored suit,

Here's where I disagree as I think Akubra's dress hats look very smart (if in good condition of course) and are perfectly wearable with a fine suit. I'd certainly like to think that the Akubra in my avatar looks smart enough to go with the suit.

mayserwegener · Jan 24, 2012

rlk said:
This is like comparing a manufacturer of ATV's to General Motors.

+1

Brent Hutto · Jan 24, 2012

seed,

Criticism is generally appropriate but one must temper it with an awareness of the "echo chamber effect" which tends to amplify and repeat certain critical comments in a forum such as this one. For every utterance that Matt ever made about the quality of modern Borsalino hats, there are numerous quotations, paraphrases and half remembered misattributions bandied about.

Especially when it's an individual as influential as Matt, one man's critical opinion can be eventually received as something close to universal disdain for a product among the cognoscenti. In this case, many of us have experience with the product and come to different conclusions what you're attributing to Matt D.

avedwards · Jan 24, 2012

^^Also take note of the sort of hats Matt is likely to compare it to. If I recall Matt wears an Optimo made from a beaver-nutria blend, which is likely to be vastly superior to any modern production hat in durability and finnish. So a Borsalino may or may not be an acceptable dress hat, but nowhere near as good as a custom made hat.

Brent Hutto · Jan 24, 2012

FWIW...

I have two (modern) Borsalino hats and one custom (Tumwater) hat. Clearly the Tumwater uses superior felt (all beaver, I believe) and the workmanship is more careful and elaborate. I'd say it is a substantially better but not so much as to make me quit wearing the Borsalinos.

A normal person, rather than hat snob, would handle the two hats and pick the Tumwater as superior but perhaps not without looking closely and thinking about it for a moment. With TonyB's current pricing compared to the ever-higher cost of a Borsalino the decision was rather easy for me. But at a certain point, for most of us, a hat can only be "so good" and especially my Alessandria is good enough if it were the best hat I owned I'd be quite content.

Then again maybe there are some incredibly crummy Borsalino hats being sold out there and I've just not seen them...

1961MJS · Jan 24, 2012

Hi

I also have a Tumwater 100% Beaver Fedora, I also own a 100 % bunny Buckaroo hat (Roughrider, Cowboy thickness), a Stetson Temple, and a Beaver Brand 8x Stony Creek. I alternate wearing these during felt hat season. The Tumwater is incredibly soft and flexible, it is also exactly to my specifications. The Roughrider is also exactly to my specifications, and it completely inflexible. The Stetson Temple is slightly less flexible than the Tumwater and the Beaver Brand is flanged and when the front of the brim comes down you can hear the snap. I agree with Brent, a hat can only be soo good with respect to it's price. I feel that Tony's hat is my best, and I also paid the most for it. The Roughrider comes in second, but is third in cost after the Beaver Brand. The Stetson is a nice hat, but doesn't look as good, and was also the least expensive by a large margin.

In summary, buy what you can afford, and what you want. It's better to own one hat that you love than four hats that you can stand.

Just my $0.03, my opinions are getting better....

gtdean48 · Jan 24, 2012

Price also has a place in the equation as well. Borsalino Alessandrias go for top dollar, $305 at Peter Bros but $240 at Bencraft.
Those prices put you in the area of 100% beaver offerings that get compared to the modern rabbit felt of Borsalino which is not the same as the vintage bunny felts....

Brent Hutto · Jan 24, 2012

It's when the Borsalino hats climbed above the $200-ish price point that I got serious about looking into having a beaver felt hat made. For me about 200 bucks is my comfort zone, owning and wearing two or three different $200 hats is akin to having several $150 pairs of shoes in the closet. When you start pushing $250 that's out of my comfort zone and within shouting distance of some custom, beaver-felt lids. Then it becomes an easy decision.

carldelo · Jan 24, 2012

Brent Hutto said:
It's when the Borsalino hats climbed above the $200-ish price point that I got serious about looking into having a beaver felt hat made. For me about 200 bucks is my comfort zone, owning and wearing two or three different $200 hats is akin to having several $150 pairs of shoes in the closet. When you start pushing $250 that's out of my comfort zone and within shouting distance of some custom, beaver-felt lids. Then it becomes an easy decision.

Yes, I agree, and would add that cranially-advantaged folks such as ourselves have fewer opportunities to find high-quality vintage lids that some of the small-domed collectors are blessed to be able to find at reasonable prices. For us, a nice vintage lid in 7-3/4 and a new custom lid are generally in the same price range, but you can just order the custom, rather than trawling the resale market for the rare big one.

job · Jan 25, 2012

I have noticed that some of the gentlemen on this forum that have many AWESOME fedoras would probably not have but a fraction of them if they had my large head. Akubra, Borsalino, buy em, wear em, it only matters if it matters to you.

Orangegrad · Jan 25, 2012

I don't own a modern Borsalino. The one hat store in Cleveland sells them though, and I've handled several. I'm not sure that the Borsalinos I've seen are any better than my Akubra, but they're certainly on a par. When I considered spending around $250 for a Borsalino, I reconsidered and then ordered a custom fedora from Black Sheep which I anticipate around my birthday in early March. Just seemed a better way to spend the money, even though my custom will be a bit more than the Borsalino. Would I purchase one of the Borsalinos I've handled? Yes. But I might also consider another custom at that price. I'll definitely be purchasing another Akubra.

I wear a size 7. Lots of opportunities for me with vintage at reasonable prices. One of the few times having a small head is an advantage.

Jim2903 · Jan 25, 2012

avedwards said:
Am I the only one who wears Akubras as dress hats? I wear my Fed IV (deluxe) and used to wear its predecessor (regular) with a suit nearly every day and I've never found them any more casual than other hats just because they're sturdy and hard wearing. The heritage quality felt on the Fed IV is quite soft anyway and can be creased without needing any water.

Therefore my advice would always be to go for an Akubra. They look good once you get the right crease and they are nearly indestructible. The only possible downside is the stiff felt but that softens over time and isn't as stiff on heritage quality hats.

I love my Akubras and wear them for dress and casual. I'd say my moonstone Fed IV is my "dressiest" Akubra and is my most frequent choice with suits, along with my carbon grey and acorn fawn Stylemasters, which are frequent daily business wear for me and look great with my Burberry trench. I've probably worn my brown Fed III more often for casual than dress, though I consider my most casual fedora to be my silverbelly Camp Draft -- personally, I think the thin ribbon makes it a more casual-looking hat than the wider ribbons of the others.

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