Reproduction Vintage Neckties?

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

I have been pondering this for the past few weeks and figured I would present the idea to you.

Do you think it is possible to have your favorite vintage necktie (I am speaking specifically of the wide, printed variety from the late 40's and very early 50's) reproduced? I come across so many wonderful prints that I cannot purchase because of holes, fraying, etc. I began to think, "would it be possible to have the necktie scanned at high resolution, have the flaws "repaired" via Photoshop or otherwise, re-printed or silk screened on like material, and completely re-made?"

It probably sounds like a pipe dream, but I figured if Toyo Enterprises can do it for Hawaiian shirts, why not for a necktie? I know a couple of bigger companies tried it in the past with some success, but I'm talking about doing it on a small scale.

I know that authentic vintage neckties are so unique that some collectors would frown upon wearing reproductions. I pondered this as well... but, for me, it's all about evoking an era, vintage or reproduction.

What do you think?

Edward · Mar 7, 2012

Seems a good idea to me. Originals can often be found cheaper than going for a new one, but as the price of originals creeps up (I'm seeing it happen already), repro will be more appealing. If you can source the cloth, or find a company that can, it should be easy. Most custom tie companies I've seen work on a minimum order of fifty units or so. You'd need to find one that got the correct construction, though - length, blade width, fabric thickness, etc.

Quigley Brown · Mar 7, 2012

The print itself could be reproduced, but the material/construction could not. I wouldn't find that very appealing.

Two Types · Mar 7, 2012

I am going to see a tie maker at the weekend, who has a shop in London. I will ask him what he thinks about this. I suspect it would be frightfully expensive and I suspect getting the weight/feel of the tie to seem right would be tough. But, as you say, if they can do something similar for shirts, why not ties?

normanpitkin · Mar 7, 2012

Speaking as a textile expert(seriously!) and 40's tie collector for 35 years ,I can tell you there are two major problems ,finding the correct fabric and the print minimum.Finding the fabric would basically have to boil down to silk crepe de chine,all rayon and acetate suitable types are no longer woven.Print minimum,could maybe print digitally these days with excellent results but the time and expenditure would still entail a retail price north of £50 at a guess.In the final analysis people (and I include myself) still like to buy a piece of the past not a repro.

Gene · Mar 7, 2012

Quigley Brown said:
The print itself could be reproduced, but the material/construction could not. I wouldn't find that very appealing.

Agree. It would never be 100%. Plus, the sheer variety and amount of vintage ties out there that can be had for cheap doesn't really warrant reproductions. As a pretty obsessive vintage tie collector myself, I too would find this to be unappealing. Plus, to our eyes we could always tell, not matter how good the repro!

Sam Craig · Mar 7, 2012

Don't you remember in the 90s ... after the Reagan power strip tie era ... when several American makers reproduced the geometric patterns?

They were usually silk, not the acetate from the originals, but they were very pleasing.

I don't remember anyone doing horses or hulagirls ... wait a minute, Tommy Bahama did the girls!

I think it's more practical still in this part of the world, at least, to dig and find the originals.

Sam

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

Gene said:
Agree. It would never be 100%. Plus, the sheer variety and amount of vintage ties out there that can be had for cheap doesn't really warrant reproductions. As a pretty obsessive vintage tie collector myself, I too would find this to be unappealing. Plus, to our eyes we could always tell, not matter how good the repro!

I definitely see your point with wanting to wear only authentic vintage neckties. I too am a serious vintage necktie collector and I plan on wearing them till the day I am gone. The fact remains... the number of great vintage neckties is slimming down and that is resulting in higher prices. Hell, I just sold a great Surreal design on eBay for $406... and it wasn't even a Dali!

The problem (for me) with wanting to wear only vintage ones is this... One hundred years from now there is a good chance that there will be absolutely no 40's or 50's vintage stuff left to find. We will all be gone and our children or grandchildren will scatter our collections to the wind (it happens, unfortunately

) Well, suppose there are vintage enthusiasts at that time who want to dress in 40's 50's attire but there is literally no authentic vintage to be found. Should they give up the idea?? If so, bye bye history!

What about serious historical reenactors who replicate fashions of the 19th century, 18th century, etc. I've seen some incredibly authentic ones! Should they just give up the lifestyle because there is no more authentic 18th century pieces to be found (except for in museums)?

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

Gene said:
Plus, to our eyes we could always tell, not matter how good the repro!

I don't know, the Toyo hawaiian shirts fooled several huge collectors at the beginning, who were paying BIG money, thinking they were rare originals.

Edward · Mar 7, 2012

Enigma1947 said:
I don't know, the Toyo hawaiian shirts fooled several huge collectors at the beginning, who were paying BIG money, thinking they were rare originals.

I agree, never say never....

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

Quigley Brown said:
The print itself could be reproduced,

This would probably be the most time consuming, assuming you are silk screening.

Quigley Brown said:
but the material/construction could not.

The material would indeed be difficult, but I actually thought the construction would be the easy part. All one needs is a good eye and a sewing machine.

Flat Foot Floey · Mar 7, 2012

Enigma1947 said:
One hundred years from now there is a good chance that there will be absolutely no 40's or 50's vintage stuff left to find. We will all be gone and our children or grandchildren will scatter our collections to the wind (it happens, unfortunately ) Well, suppose there are vintage enthusiasts at that time who want to dress in 40's 50's attire but there is literally no authentic vintage to be found. Should they give up the idea?? If so, bye bye history!

High quality pictures for future reference are a good idea. But I agree with the other: Right now there are enough vintage ties and nobody would buy the reproductions..

herringbonekid · Mar 7, 2012

Enigma1947 said:
"would it be possible to have the necktie scanned at high resolution, have the flaws "repaired" via Photoshop or otherwise, re-printed or silk screened on like material, and completely re-made?"

yes; the Japanese have shown that any level of attention to detail (including reproducing fabric) is possible if you have the determination to do it (and the technical help).

however, if you would want to make some profit from it, i don't think ties would be a wise choice, given the ready availability of them already.

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

Gene said:
Plus, the sheer variety and amount of vintage ties out there that can be had for cheap doesn't really warrant reproductions.

I wish I lived in Kentucky! Here in Los Angeles, finding great vintage neckties (along with everything else) is growing more and more difficult. Our antique fairs are being taken over by japanese buyers who snatch up just about everything!

By the way, I drove through kentucky a few months back on a road trip across the country. A wonderful state with wonderful people!

I know this may sound absolutely nuts to some of you diehard collectors, but I actually find the large majority of vintage neckties not very appealing (at least the ones I run into here in Los Angeles). Most of them seem to lack presentable colors, design and balance (just my opinion, of course). When I first started collecting, I was buying just about everything. It took a few years to realize that most of my ties were not very appealing to me, so I sold most of them, and I feel that my relatively slim collection is the better for it. Very rarely do I find a vintage tie that works for me. I try to purchase ones with suitable colors (browns, green, blues and grays, IMO) that work with my complexion and height. I am quite short and have to be very careful not to buy ties that when tied to proper length, part of the main design doesn't end up going into the knot!

I guess what I am saying is... for me, I definitely see the advantage of being able to reproduce them. Accurately and with the highest of standards, preferably made in America.

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

herringbonekid said:
if you would want to make some profit from it, i don't think ties would be a wise choice, given the ready availability of them already.

No profit intended, I just want to know if it is possible for those of us who are interested in the idea. I am just trying to plan for the future... and I sincerely believe that the well of vintage ties will dry up within the next ten years. What doesn't end up on the racks of private collectors (such as ourselves) will be either thrown in the trash or shredded and used to make mops!

I plan on dressing in 30's 40's clothing for the rest of my life (as I am sure some of you are :eusa_clap). And history tells me that authentic vintage will cease to be a viable option in the coming decades.

Undertow · Mar 7, 2012

Enigma, I believe you have a valid point regarding the eventual disappearance of quality vintage neckwear. I also agree that there should be some kind of viable way to accurately reproduce said products. Heck, that goes for most vintage styles (shirts, suits, shoes) which are fading into obscurity.

However, as Marc had recently seen when trying to offer spear collar shirts, it seems that even those on the Lounge are hesitant to drop money on a quality reproduction. I don't think it's a matter of not liking the product - those shirts Marc had were awesome! - it's more of a $$$ problem.

I think if you found a way to sell these repro ties at $25/pop, yes, you'd have takers from all over the Lounge. But once the price point starts creeping up to at-or-above most modern suiting stores located in any shopping mall, the demand will fall exponentially.

For instance, had Marc's contact been offering those spear collar shirts for $40, I would have bought two or three. Yet, when the price was set around $130 and up, I simply couldn't justify it; especially not when I can find decent dress shirts that are period-ambiguous at Younkers for $13. (yeah, just picked up some Kenneth Roberts 100% cotton dress shirts on sale!)

Then you have the issue of dedication. Just as you mentioned in your other thread regarding labels, there are those of us who are sticklers for one particular group of items, e.g. neckwear, while others are merely interested in dressing well regardless of authenticity. Those who want the best vintage deal they can find will hesitate with a repro. Those who merely like looking period correct but aren't prepared to spend the money it takes to do so will hesitate at the price point.

My friend, you're in between a rock and a hard spot.

Enigma1947 · Mar 7, 2012

Undertow said:
I think if you found a way to sell these repro ties at $25/pop, yes, you'd have takers from all over the Lounge. But once the price point starts creeping up to at-or-above most modern suiting stores located in any shopping mall, the demand will fall exponentially.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not one is happy with buying mall products. I have not seen any neckties at the mall that come at all close to vintage neckties of the late 1940's and early 50's.

It also comes down to the quality of the repros and the selected prints. And I'm talking about doing some of the amazing prints- not the run-of-the-mill stuff. If I were to come across an amazing reproduction print that I absolutely loved, I would stop and ask myself this question:

"Is there ever a chance that I will find the original version of this print? If there is, will it be in wearable condition and if so, would I feel comfortable wearing it, without worry that I might spill gravy on it?" :eusa_doh:

If the answer is no or likely not, then I would be willing to shell out a bit more than $25 for one. Remember, some of the amazing prints are now hitting the $100+ mark on eBay. I sold one for $406 a few weeks ago. Not a Dali, just a nice surreal print in mint condition! I was stunned!

Undertow said:
My friend, you're in between a rock and a hard spot.

Yeah... I know. It's just really frustrating when we all know that the well is drying up. Repros seem to be the only option for those who want to dress vintage for the rest of their lives. There must be a way...

Undertow · Mar 7, 2012

I agree, the well is drying up.

I went to a vintage clothing store with my honey up in Minneapolis two weekends ago. While we were browsing (and finding some awfully great items) a group of middle aged ladies came in. They announced to everyone in earshot that they were there to purchase "costumes" for a "Mad Men party". Imagine my honey's and my own horror as they barged into the fitting rooms with excellent vintage pieces, flung them around and more or less made swine of themselves.

Most people see these items as nothing more than old costumey wear. Thus, collectors like yourself have to pay more and more just to get a hold of something nice. Add that to the already inherent scarcity of old clothing, and you have a perfect storm.

One of our blessings, the resurgence of "vintage" clothing and culture, has also turned into one of our curses.

Enigma1947 · Mar 8, 2012

Undertow said:
I went to a vintage clothing store with my honey up in Minneapolis two weekends ago. While we were browsing (and finding some awfully great items) a group of middle aged ladies came in. They announced to everyone in earshot that they were there to purchase "costumes" for a "Mad Men party". Imagine my honey's and my own horror as they barged into the fitting rooms with excellent vintage pieces, flung them around and more or less made swine of themselves.

I see this happening at my local antique fairs as well. Along with the overwhelming number of japanese buyers there is also a staggering number of trendy people looking for vintage items. Now, they are not usually looking for the really old stuff, but when they find it they don't pass it up! I'm sure they don't even know what they have!

Undertow said:
Most people see these items as nothing more than old costumey wear. Thus, collectors like yourself have to pay more and more just to get a hold of something nice. Add that to the already inherent scarcity of old clothing, and you have a perfect storm.

A perfect storm indeed! One thing that bothers me about the japanese collectors is that they have the best vintage items AND the best repros! There was a time a few years back when the japanese buyers would come to the fairs with LARGE bins on wheels and fill them up! I happened to spot some incredible 1930's spectators in one of their bins. I asked the man if he was interested in selling them. He just gave a little grin and nodded, NO. He wouldn't even entertain an offer, as if any offer of mine couldn't possibly satisfy him!

Despite that, I do admire their ability to make amazing reproductions of just about anything!

Undertow said:
One of our blessings, the resurgence of "vintage" clothing and culture, has also turned into one of our curses.

You hit the nail on the head, my friend!

Gene · Mar 8, 2012

Enigma1947 said:
I wish I lived in Kentucky! Here in Los Angeles, finding great vintage neckties (along with everything else) is growing more and more difficult. Our antique fairs are being taken over by japanese buyers who snatch up just about everything!

By the way, I drove through kentucky a few months back on a road trip across the country. A wonderful state with wonderful people!

It's definitely an advantage, nobody around here can tell a 40's tie from a 90's tie, which is why so many end up mixed in at the Goodwills, Salvation Armies, etc. I've gotten handpainteds and made in California ties here for $3 and under. But as with everywhere, I'm sure they're not as plentiful as they used to be...but being the only vintage tie collector around (that I know of) has its perks.

I could see where geographical location would be an issue for most people (especially all you left and east coasties) in finding good ties, so that might warrant reproduction. We should've started reproducing them and clothing specifically for the Japanese market so all of the original examples could stay here!

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