Hat sizing revisited

Edw8ri · Jan 30, 2010

This is really interesting. I looked at the Stetson chart, and you are right. It says that 23 inches is a 7 1/4. The Akubra chart says that 23 inches is 7 3/8. Now that is a recipe for confusion.

Wolfwood · Jan 30, 2010

I think the problem lies squarely on the definition of "inch". Whereas centimetre is a stable unit, the length of an inch has been changed quite a few times over the centuries.

Quoth wikipedia:

Effective July 1, 1959, the United States and countries of the British Commonwealth defined the length of the international yard to be exactly 0.9144 meters. [1] Consequently, the international inch is defined to be equal to exactly 25.4 millimeters. This creates a slight difference between the international units and surveyor's units which are described in the article on the foot.

A metric inch (25 mm instead of 25.4 mm) was the equivalent of an inch under a former proposal for the metrification and unification of the English system of measures.

In Sweden, between 1855 to 1863, the existing Swedish "working inch" of ~24.74 mm was replaced by a "decimal inch" of ~29.69 mm which was one tenth of the Swedish foot.

So in a transition period between 1878 and 1889 the metric units were introduced as the overall standard measures. However, the various inches survived some time in building and construction trades.

I wonder if different definitions of an inch are still alive and well in some hat blocks out there...

gtdean48 · Jan 30, 2010

I am dead on 24" which is right at 61 cm = 7 5/8.
23" on the metric conversion calculator is a 58.42 which is not quite a 59 which is a 7 3/8 but a little more than a 58 which is a 7 1/4.
You are a "tweener" = in between sizes.
Now you are at the mercy of the manufacturers.
Modern Stetsons will be very round, so a 7 1/4 would likely stretch out to the natural shape of your head.
Other makers may fit you better at a 7 3/8.
The other option is custom made with a conformer like Art uses to get your actual head shape. Major Moore uses a similar contraption but it can't be shipped back & forth.

Mario · Feb 1, 2010

I've heard (read) a lot about this conformer but don't have the foggiest notion what it looks like and how it is used... [huh]

stealthboy · Feb 1, 2010

Edw8ri said:
This is really interesting. I looked at the Stetson chart, and you are right. It says that 23 inches is a 7 1/4. The Akubra chart says that 23 inches is 7 3/8. Now that is a recipe for confusion.

This continues to bite me. I ordered a 7 3/8 Stetson because according to one online chart from the place I ordered that should fit a 23. Way too big. Returned for a 7 1/4 and it fits much better. I agree that 23 inches around is more like a 7 1/4 than a 7 3/8.

Stan · Feb 1, 2010

Hi,

Oh, I've been at this for two years now, but I found this out in my first month. Discrepancies in hat size charts are all over the place.

There are several charts out there, all right. Some are hat *seller's* charts and some are hat *maker's* charts. A seller's chart goes by the size *with* the sweatband in place, and a maker's chart goes by measurements *without* the sweat in place.

Now, *there's* a recipe for confusion if ever I saw one!!

Then, if that were not bad enough, there's a size difference between US size in inches and UK size in inches! So, now we have at least *four* different charts from back when, all of which are technically correct!

Additionally, some of the charts make use of the double ellipse, which a hat really is, and some are based on a more simplistic circle. Great! More chances for error!

Finally, some are based on the Metric cm measurements converted into Imperial inches and are therefore somewhat different than any of the others.

What fun!

However, most of the modern production hats I've run across all seem to fit in with the Metric converted to English form of the hat size chart. I'd say to use that one, which is what's on most of the current hat manufacturers websites these days.

Later!

Stan

Griff · Feb 2, 2010

This is all pretty interesting. I know one thing for sure and that's that I'll only deal with a store that will take returns. As I mentioned, I am getting the issue resolved. Stetson is paying all the shipping charges and is sending a pick-up order for FedEx to come pick it up. Great customer service.

cragmor · Jan 7, 2011

Adjusting hat size

So, when buying hats online, how do you deal with hats that are not just right? I can figure out too small. What about hats that are just a tad too big? Or, in my case, I lost some weight, and now the hat does not fit the same. I was thinking of taking thin cardboard, or playing cards to put in the band.

danofarlington · Jan 7, 2011

cragmor said:
So, when buying hats online, how do you deal with hats that are not just right? I can figure out too small. What about hats that are just a tad too big? Or, in my case, I lost some weight, and now the hat does not fit the same. I was thinking of taking thin cardboard, or playing cards to put in the band.

You stuff the band with paper toweling, or buy foam tape for inside or outside the sweatband (my preferred way), but don't overlook your right to send back the hat, if bought new. I made the mistake of keeping an expensive Borsalino that was tight, when I should've sent it back for a size up. Ultimately I had it stretched, but that's not the way to go. Of course if you buy from E bay, then only some of the sellers will let you send it back, and then there are easy adjustments within a size or so.

zetwal · Jan 7, 2011

Put some small strips of felt (or similar) behind the leather sweatband where needed.

gtdean48 · Jan 7, 2011

:arated:

zetwal said:
Put some small strips of felt (or similar) behind the leather sweatband where needed.

In the craft dept of Wal-Mart or at a Hobby Lobby or Michaels, they sale felt sqaures in many colors for less that 50 cents. I always buy white just so my sweat or rain won't risk running any dye. You can cut a few strips to put behind the sweatband & layer or fold them to get the thinkness. A plain white paper towel works well & some rich folks use folded dollar bills... HTH

Akubra Man · Jan 7, 2011

I purchased some thin cork strips on eBay for this purpose. They are approximately 1/16" thick by 3/4" high and 4" long. They work very well for minor size adjustments.

Dobb · Apr 18, 2012

In between Head Size

I should have expected it. I am just about in between 71/4 and 73/8, but I think the hats vary with different companies. The Mallory Stetson is 73/8 and fits just nice.But the Royal Stetson and a Walker in 71/4 feel just about the same. Anything 71/2 is just big and not right.I'm wondering about the hats(71/4) fitting better over time with a sort of break in period.All these hats are basically unworn.I am also curious about hat stretchers that I have seen.

Seth Hawkins · Apr 18, 2012

My personal experience - I'd rather get a hat that's slightly large, and use a sizing strip to get it smaller. I've tried stretchers, and they just didn't give the results I wanted. It's much easier to make a hat smaller than it is to make it larger. And hats usually shrink over time with use. I'm between sizes, too, and bought on the larger size when I bought my hats. The only use I've found for my hat stretcher is to give a hat a "long oval" shape if it's on the stiff side, such as my Stetson Open Road was.

jlee562 · Apr 18, 2012

Yes, hat sizes can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Also, if we're talking about vintage hats, we also have to consider the possibility that the sweatband has shrunk over time. Hat stretchers/retainers generally do the job, another option is to have the hat stretched and/or reblocked by a professional hatter.

I just picked up one of these hat retainers: http://www.hatretainer.com/ from Baron Hats (they had the best price I could find) and it's doing the trick for my hats which have shrunk with use. This one is nice because it's nice and wide, and won't leave an indent in the sweatband.

Penman hats also has a really neat hat jack: http://penmanhats.com/Hatbrushes___Hatboxes.html, this one has a bolt locking mechanism which means you only have to set it to your size once.

If you order a custom hat from Mr. Art Fawcett, he can also make you a "band block" which matches the shape and circumference of your head.

carldelo · Apr 19, 2012

Actual hat size varies within a manufacturer's line as well. When trying on several identical hats of a given size, it is common to find one that fits better than the others. I've found a variance of perhaps +/- a half size more than once. I would always opt for a slightly larger hat, as sweat bands do tend to draw in with time. I keep an older straw on a hat stretcher all the time - I tend to sweat in a summer hat, and the jack helps to keep it from shrinking after a wear. I've never had any luck actually stretching a hat, however. Manhattan Wardrobe Supply sells a nice wide version:
http://www.wardrobesupplies.com/store/hat_stretch.html

scottyrocks · Apr 19, 2012

I, too, would rather have a slightly too big than a slightly too small. I've had to stretch a coopla hats and its not fun (I can hear them screaming and bones breaking). I use folded paper towel or sizing tape to bring a slightly too big hat to my size.

Woodfluter · Apr 19, 2012

This is so subject to personal expectations. Please don't read too much into what I've expressed. YMMV as they say.

I really can't stand padding out hats under the sweatband to make them fit. I think it feels and fits rather strangely, and looks worse. If only about a half size one way or the other, I'd much rather have a half size too small and stretch. Vintage hats per my experience won't shrink significantly no matter what you do. But stretching by a half size really isn't all that serious if you take precautions.

The sweat band is the most critical thing about stretching. If it's at all salvageable, make sure to give it thorough treatment (I use Lexol) for several days or weeks before you get involved with stretching. I say this with experience of good and bad sorts!

A simple hat stretcher is useful because it will apply force for a much longer period than you can with your fingers while the hat is on your head. I'd steam lightly first, at the base of the crown, and torque enough but not too much. Sorry, can't explain, it's intuitive and depends on what you're working on.

I think that, in the old days, a hat shop would take care of these fitting issues as a matter of course. Now we poor souls, with far less training, are thrown back on our meager resources.

davers · Aug 12, 2012

What hat size would be best?

Hey Gang!! Well, I got my first hat this past Saturday that isn't an XL. It's an actual size 7 1/2 and it fits just a tad tight. It is a vintage hat from around the '60's, I don't know if that makes a difference. I measured my noodle, and I'm a 60.5 centimeter. Of course!:eusa_doh: I've looked up sizes, and 60 is a 7 1/2, and 61 is a 7 5/8. My question is, should I go with a 61, or a 60? I think I know the answer already, I'm guessing a 61, but I'd like some knowledgeable input. I'm sort of thinking out loud too, so let me say my hair is cut pretty short right now, buzz cut. I do let my hair go for a month sometimes...so I guess it would be best to go bigger rather than smaller?

What say you gents?

Thanks!!

Dave

Rick Blaine · Aug 12, 2012

A stretcher is always a handy tool.

Considering the many differences in manufactures sizing, varying rates of shrinkage in vintage lids, I'm often too lazy to go to the barber & a whole host of other reasons.

Hat sizing revisited

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