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It's silk and I would say 1930s (may be later). Not sure who (Stetson?) made it for John Wanamaker. Is there any maker mark (paper label) behind the sweatband?
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Toppers Unite
- Thread starter Garrett
- Start date
KyleK
One of the Regulars
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Thanks, mayserwegener, no paper label that I found but I didn't do a full inspection - as I was about to I heard a ruckus outside. Had to immediately go rescue the 2.5 year old from the 5 year old. There was some kind of pattern or oversized script on the inside of the sweat.
- Messages
- 15,012
- Location
- Buffalo, NY
Collins & Fairbanks silk plush top hat c.1920s
5 1/2" crown height, 1 3/4" brim front and back, 1 5/8" ribbon. 2 1/2" gray leather sweatband with rolled edge and deep retailer imprint. Condition virtually as new. Very similar dimensions and form to my slightly earlier 1915 Crofut & Knapp nutria fur topper. It is interesting to compare the two materials in the hand. They are almost identical in color and sheen. Only rubbing with the finger against the grain can you recognize one to be made from animal fur.
5 1/2" crown height, 1 3/4" brim front and back, 1 5/8" ribbon. 2 1/2" gray leather sweatband with rolled edge and deep retailer imprint. Condition virtually as new. Very similar dimensions and form to my slightly earlier 1915 Crofut & Knapp nutria fur topper. It is interesting to compare the two materials in the hand. They are almost identical in color and sheen. Only rubbing with the finger against the grain can you recognize one to be made from animal fur.
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Chepstow
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Alan, that is an fantastic Topper and find, indeed. Wonderful! does it fit?
- Messages
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- Buffalo, NY
It does. 
newturnofphrase
One of the Regulars
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- 251
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It does.
Beautiful topper, Alan. What are the differences in texture between nutria and silk? It's amazing how similar looking the two materials are.
- Messages
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- Buffalo, NY
Thank you... I posted this comparison today. Visually they are almost identical. The silk plush is slightly glossier. Rubbing in the direction of the grain it is hard to tell the difference. Rubbing against the grain is where you can feel the resistance of the fur is greater than that of the silk.
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MissMittens
One Too Many
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I found that P. & C. Habig Wien were the last hat company to make Silk Top Hats. Very interesting!
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carouselvic
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1978 Borsalino
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That sweatband looks like ones P. & C. Habig Wien used on their Top Hats.
carouselvic
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sure could be
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Acording to the article I just posted P. & C. Habig Wien bought the last Silk Top Hat making equipment / silk plush stock from Spoorenberg (Holland) in 1975. Is it Silk Plush or Melusine (my guess is Melusine)? The ribbon binding doesn't look like silk and the hat ribbon looks of a similar material.
Here is a very similar (same texture) P. & C. Habig Wien Top Hat sweatband. The problem is this hat dates from the 1934. Habig was very traditional so I guess anything is possible.
Here is a very similar (same texture) P. & C. Habig Wien Top Hat sweatband. The problem is this hat dates from the 1934. Habig was very traditional so I guess anything is possible.
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bowlerman
I'll Lock Up
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- 6,292
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- South Dakota
Thought this one deserved a place here. I'm guessing it's a Dobbs, and that it is old. But I have absolutely nothing to support that theory other than the fact that I got it in a very old Dobbs box, which shows Paris as one of its locations, and the inside of the topper says "Paris," and "Mode de Paris."
I would love any input from anyone who might be able to provide a more historically informed analysis.
Also-- how do you alter the brim shape on a topper like this? (Particularly the wavy front of the D'Orsay curl.)
Here's a better shot of that brim:
(Yes, it came with the white gloves, too!)
I would love any input from anyone who might be able to provide a more historically informed analysis.
Also-- how do you alter the brim shape on a topper like this? (Particularly the wavy front of the D'Orsay curl.)
Here's a better shot of that brim:
(Yes, it came with the white gloves, too!)
Brad Bowers
I'll Lock Up
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Nice package deal, but I don't think the hat is Dobbs, the box is just what happened to be handy. I can't imagine an Top Hat being purposely sold in a non-protective, non-Top-Hat box.
Option #1: It was retailed at a Dobbs & Co. store - possible, but every foreign-make hat I've seen retailed by Crofut & Knapp/Cavanagh-Dobbs, Inc./Hat Corporation of America was primarily labeled as their own brand, with incidental markings for the foreign manufacturer. Dobbs & Co probably didn't retail foreign brands without claiming some exclusivity, if at all.
Option #2: Dobbs did have some overseas associates, but if a Dobbs hat was sold overseas, it would say Dobbs inside. If the hat was sold at a Paris hatter, it would have come with a box labeled for that hatter, not Dobbs.
Hat and gloves together is a winning combination!
Brad
Option #1: It was retailed at a Dobbs & Co. store - possible, but every foreign-make hat I've seen retailed by Crofut & Knapp/Cavanagh-Dobbs, Inc./Hat Corporation of America was primarily labeled as their own brand, with incidental markings for the foreign manufacturer. Dobbs & Co probably didn't retail foreign brands without claiming some exclusivity, if at all.
Option #2: Dobbs did have some overseas associates, but if a Dobbs hat was sold overseas, it would say Dobbs inside. If the hat was sold at a Paris hatter, it would have come with a box labeled for that hatter, not Dobbs.
Hat and gloves together is a winning combination!
Brad
newturnofphrase
One of the Regulars
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Hi bowlerman, i'm not as well versed in American hats as Brad, but there are a number of reasons to think this is late 19th century French, not a Dobbs.
First, the hat itself almost certainly dates from the 19th century. The green colored underbrim merino lasted through the 1910s but I've never seen an example past the 1920s. Second, the color of the lining is consistent with the 19th century, when linings were much darker and sometimes even consisted of tartans or other cloths that would seem strange relative to the cream silk linings that were the standard by the 1900s. Third, the shape and condition is more in line with the 1890s than the 1900s or 1910s. So I think it's a 19th century topper, which would predate dobbs. The dobbs box was likely simply a convenient way to store it safely, which someone put it in at some point.
I use this method: if you have an electric stove top, turn on one of the burners to max. Make sure the brim is reasonably clean and doesn't have threads hanging down as they could catch fire if they touch the burner. When the burner is heated, hold the topper upright and bring the brim about 4-5 inches above the element, being very careful not to let it touch or come so close that it singes the merino. Move it back in forth so it doesn't get too hot, such that only the part of the brim you want to shape is getting moved over the heat. As the brim gradually gets very hot, it wil soften. You should smell shellac. Don't let the crown go over the burner much as it will fill with very hot air (like a balloon) which could damage the lining and shape of the crown. Keep heating the brim up in 15-25 second warmings, with a few seconds break to let the exterior fabric cool, then do it again, until malleable. Then shape it, and hold it in the shape you want for 2-3 minutes away from the heat for the shape to set. You may have to warm it up several times to fiddle with the shape to get it right.
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bowlerman
I'll Lock Up
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Wow! this is extremely helpful and informative. thanks ntop!
Wally in Cincy
One of the Regulars
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Groundhog toppers
http://animaltracks.today.com/_news/2013/02/02/16756058-early-spring-the-groundhog-says?lite
Lotsa toppers in Punxsutawney today
http://animaltracks.today.com/_news/2013/02/02/16756058-early-spring-the-groundhog-says?lite
Lotsa toppers in Punxsutawney today
Mr. Garrulus
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Not a topper but still related! A leather top hat bucket.
The other side strap is loose but can still be easily sewn back.
The key is intact and the lock works.
The inside with velvet lining and a laminate bottom.
And the price for this one which still haves the key? 57$/38£, not bad I guess... Should I give it some leather oil to soften it up a bit?
The other side strap is loose but can still be easily sewn back.
The key is intact and the lock works.
The inside with velvet lining and a laminate bottom.
And the price for this one which still haves the key? 57$/38£, not bad I guess... Should I give it some leather oil to soften it up a bit?
