Are all "Supers" really "SUPER"???

I haven't extensively searched for such, but I can't say I have personally stumbled on anything heavier than 12 oz that's still marketed with a super number. Light by vintage standards, but in modern suiting it edges on the heavier side of the scale.

from what i've read about 'supers', the number (the count number) IS related to the weight of the fabric; the higher the number the finer the fibres.

nearly all super 120-180s that i've seen are in the 7-10oz range. it wouldn't make any sense for companies to market a 16-18 oz fabric as 'super' because it would go against the logic they've used thus far... that 'super' equals fine and lightweight.

this is from my 'guide to textile terms' book:

Worsted count: indirect count system used for worsted and other fibers spun on the worsted system.
The count number is the number of hanks , each measuring a standard 560 yards , that weigh one pound.
60s worsted count means that 60 hanks, each of 560 yards, weigh one pound.
40s worsted count means that 40 hanks each of 560 yards, weigh one pound.

(a 'hank' is a bundle of coiled yarn, prior to being loomed)

in other words, the lower the number the thicker the yarn.

m000, what you said on the previous page about being able produce heavy fabric from high super numbers doesn't add up i'm afraid.

Well, theoretically, tighter woven yarns could be woven into heavier fabrics for a given area.

So, you get more wool - less air - per unit area. If you spin the same yarn ten times tighter, you can fit a little under ten times more yarn into a given area, and so heavier.

In theory.

I seem to recall seeing overcoats with Super tags on them. Maybe Brioni or Kiton or that ilk and the stuff was not thin top coating but substantial over coating.

Baron, i would be faking it if i said i know enough about weaving to know if that would work or not, but (even if it could be done) it begs the question; why go to the bother of weaving super-fine yarn into a heavy (18 oz) fabric when you could just use the thicker yarn in the first place and replicate exactly a 1930s fabric ?

It would defeat the purpose entirely, of course. But "theoretically do-able" is the point.

I've never found a suit under super 120s. If anyone knows an otr with a heavier fabric that would be great.

Bookster have many fabrics (by various companies) in the 16-18oz range (450-510 grams):

http://www.tweed-jacket.com/CLOTH PAGE/CLOTH GALLERY/index.htm

...they're MTM rather than OTR, but affordable. i've never used them but Two Types has good things to say about them.

I agree with what all of those here that are against the super fabrics said about super fabrics. I liked those crummy fabrics at one point in time (as recently as five years ago) myself, I'm sorry to say. Heavy weight fabrics (which are a minimum of 13 ounces) with low thread counts are far superior in every conceivable way (and less to much less expensive to boot). Maybe it is just me, but all of today's 13+ ounce fabrics (particularly if they are 100% wool flannel) have the durability of and, overall, are just as excellent and classic as all of the 13+ ounce fabrics from 1950 and prior but feel and look just as silky as those crummy super fabrics.

A vast majority of these crummy super fabrics are 7 to 9.75 ounces, going as high as 12 ounces for super 140s to super 150s, as high as 13 ounces for super 120s to super 130s and as high as 14 ounces for super 100s to super 110s. These medium and especially heavy weights for super 100s to super 150s fabrics are nearly non existent. Everything above super 150s that I have felt and seen are 7 to 9.75 ounces. All fabrics that are 9.75 ounces and lower (light weight fabrics) and, to a lesser extent, 10 to 12.75 ounces (medium weight fabrics) are fairy floss as an Australian man on the fashion and style message boards with the user name Sator has said many times. IMO, Sator is correct with what he said about light weight and medium weight fabrics to the point of being record setting (and, yes, that is a record setting compliment to Sator).

My advice to the original poster, stick with non super fabrics that are a minimum of 13 ounces. However, beware that all fabrics that are cotton, linen or any blend of cotton and linen that are a minimum of 13 ounces are nearly non existent (15 ounces is the heaviest weight cotton, linen and any blend of cotton and linen that I know of). Believe it or not, heavy weight cotton, linen and all blends of cotton and linen (which are strictly non super as far as I know) are just as cool as the medium weight and even light weight cotton, linen or any blend of cotton and linen fabrics are but far less prone to wrinkles and far more durable (but probably somewhat more expensive due to slowly but steadily increasing demand and just as steadily but twice as slowly growing supply) than those crummy medium weight and especially those even crummier light weight cotton, linen or any blend of cotton and linen fabrics.

Son_of_Atropos said:

I've never found a suit under super 120s. If anyone knows an otr with a heavier fabric that would be great.

Click to expand...

according to Permanent Style blog the store Paul Stuart is making some garments in a "noticeably heavier" 18 - 20 oz fabric, which "feels rather luxurious in today’s market":

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2013/06/ralph-auriemma-takes-on-paul-stuart.html#.Ua82rWS3iuM

Oxxford offer a good selection of suits made from hardy fabrics for their Fall/Winter collection. Most cloth is sourced from the various Holland & Sherry (which they own) books but some are milled expressly for Oxxford. I guess being a Chicago company keeps them aware of the demands of a harsh winter. They always seem to have a good selection of stuff in thick merino wool, which has a cashmere-like handle but wears like steel.

What I don't like about these fabrics is that they are made from "SUPER" numbers to be "SUPER" luxurious and to wear out "SUPER" fast... and I believe that we live in a day and age where we could easily produce something a lot more resistant and better made, but instead all we have is stuff that wears out so you continuosly have to buy again and again... Damn Consumerism.

@A.C. Lyles, merino wool sounds really good. Do you have any suit or sportcoat made with it?