Crushing Disappointment

Lorne · May 21, 2013

I won a hat on an auction site. It was a very nice Knox homburg with a medium sized brim.
The seller said “a couple of minor spots on the hat.”

I got the hat today. When I took it out of the box, CRUSHING DISAPPOINTMENT...

The hat was completely moth eaten. The “couple of minor spots” were moth bites so bad that hat looked like it had been hit by bird shot.

I need a hug...

splintercellsz · May 21, 2013

I am very sorry to hear that, but I guess it happens to the best of us sometimes... Do you have any photos, and a link to the original auction?

Lorne · May 21, 2013

I can't photograph the hat, as I'm afraid the photons from camer's flash will damage what little of the hat there is, and I want a refund for this thing.

Below is a link to the original auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181135243815?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

DJH · May 21, 2013

Yes, one stray photon might be all it takes

It does look OK in the auction photos so I can see why
It was a nasty surprise!

Lorne · May 21, 2013

Its not even black.

Its brown...

I'm guessing that moth siliva turns brown felt darker...

Monte · May 21, 2013

Not cool. A few nibbles is accepted but all over....that's not on the description. Hope you get that money back and if you don't, make sure that seller gets flagged somehow for the misrepresentation.

splintercellsz · May 21, 2013

In the last photo, you can see it loks a bit brownish, but I couldn't see any mothing at all... man, that sucks!

I suppose you get in contact with the seller, and see if you can work anything out, if not, you can maybe make a claim, or at worst, leave some negative feedback.

doberdadinmd · May 21, 2013

All I can add is that Photoshop has obviously gotten too easy to use. That kind of retouching with negatives would probably have taken hours.

Woodfluter · May 21, 2013

I can see a few things in the photos that might have made me wonder a little, but nothing like what you describe. Yikes.

Lorne, did the seller photograph the sides of the hat that were severely moth-eaten? I don't mean the crappy photos where you can't see anything anyway - the others where you can see detail in decent lighting. Is the damage at variance with what's shown in the eBay photos? Or has the seller shown the intact portions only?

Just curious. In any case, you should certainly request (putting "demand" nicely) a refund. No need to threaten at this point I think. I'd always like to assume gross incompetence rather than bad intent. And it's so often true. But if the seller purposely hid things, that puts a different spin on it. The price is close to shipping costs, so if it really was dishonestly presented in the photos, I wouldn't eat any of the shipping charges either.

humanshoes · May 21, 2013

All too often, sellers don't realize that some folks will buy a nice old hat regardless of damage. I purchased a NOS Stetson Open Road that seems to have sustained many generations of moth families over the years. I now wear it hiking, camping, and fly fishing without regard to it's welfare. If ebay sellers will just be honest, thorough, and accurate in their descpriptions, hats will change hands, and all will be well.

Lorne · May 21, 2013

The damage is much worse than in the photo's. The bites on the crown are through and throughs, so you can see the lining. The bites on back of the crown, along the sweat/ribbon, are through and through as well. On the side of the crown and the upper brim, the bites are serious and evident.

Also, brown ain't black.

I can understand not seeing the bites round the ribbon/sweat, not seeing the bites on the crown that go through, or under stating the bites on the brim and crown, or calling dark brown black...

But, I can't understand all those things at once.

jlee562 · May 21, 2013

Similar thing happened to me and I petitioned for a partial refund through ebay. Seller ended up being a total jerk, and claimed I was trying to rip him off and that I sent ebay pictures of a different hat. Ebay sided with me after I made a video comparing the hat to the auction photos.

Woodfluter · May 21, 2013

Lorne, in line with what jlee said...and I know this seems like a silly question, but I'll ask anyway...

Are you quite sure the seller sent you the hat depicted in the auction photos? Is there any chance you ended up receiving a different but similar hat? I had something like that happen once, and it appeared to be an honest mix-up that was promptly corrected at no expense to me.

And again, were the detailed photos taken from sides or presentations that seemed to deliberately hide moth-induced ventilation? Or were the photos so much at variance with what you see from the same angles that there's a possibility of doctored evidence? I do a good deal of digital processing and know exactly how easy it is to make things disappear with the right tools. Not wanting to imply that happened but trying to understand why this happened.

frussell · May 21, 2013

Mix-up or not, this has happened to me more times than I'd like to admit, and at least once from a fellow lounge member (selling on eBay), who should have known better. A few times I was able to get reimbursed, but it was usually a matter of opening a dispute with eBay and having them or PayPal handle it, which takes a while. The lounge member I got burned by doesn't come around much anymore, although he did write me some really childish PMs using obscene language, like an angry sixth grader. Some folks are really brave across the internet. Hope you can get your money back, including any shipping costs. Frank

Lorne · May 21, 2013

Nope, this is the hat that was in the add.

I try never to attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.

Figure how dumb the average Ebay seller is and then figure half of them are dumber than that. Some of them sell hats...

Of course, I bought the damn thing so how smart does that make me?

Feraud · May 21, 2013

It seems like you have a good case for a full refund. The seller misrepresented the hat in color and condition.

splintercellsz · May 21, 2013

A positive side is that you now have what seems to be a perfect beater hat. Great for the down & dirty work.

Lorne · May 21, 2013

I don't do down and dirty work.

I have henchmen to do that.

Here is what I wrote the seller after she tried to talk me down:

"In reading your ad, you said "a few small spots that I only found when I closely examined the outside of the hat."When I examined the hat I found no "spots." I did find numerous moth bites and holes through the crown and where the brim joins the crown. The paper the hat was wrapped in was so moth bitten it looked like Swiss cheese. As for the color, brown is not black. Dark brown isn't black either.I'd rather not argue about this. I believe that you haven't tried to mislead me and that, as a collector, my idea of good condition maybe different than yours.That being said, I am asking for a refund because the hat is not as described because of its condition and its color."

yttclothing · May 22, 2013

If i'd cocked up that badly I'd be refunding quicker than you can say negative feedback! I don't think the fact that they may not be a hat collector is an excuse a hole is a hole & its rare that if something has a hole in it its "good condition" Occasionally mistakes can be made but this just seems to be neglect of the facts. Hope you get your money back!

alanfgag · May 22, 2013

Unfortunately, inclusion of the box raises the shipping cost but the price paid doesn't seem to warrant such angst. I would move on to an experience with better karma at the University of eBay.

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