Were Belstaff jackets originally made with leather?

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

I mean this style of jacket;

Since they claim they invented this jacket during the 1960s [huh] I wonder if they were originally made with leather. I always have seen this style of jackets in some kind of waxed fabric but never in leather until recently.

Brad_Pitt_%20Benjamin%20Button_belstaff.jpg

Interbak · Jan 6, 2014

As far as I know they were never made in leather by Belstaff or Barbour until the recent "fashion versions" produced by the current owners. The design dates back to the late 1920's.

B

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

Interbak said:
As far as I know they were never made in leather by Belstaff or Barbour until the recent "fashion versions" produced by the current owners. The design dates back to the late 1920's.

That's what I thought. And the current owners are not even british. This brand is owned by a Swiss 'luxury conglomerate'. Therefore, Brad Pitt jacket was 'period incorrect', right?

aswatland · Jan 6, 2014

Belstaff did make some early MC jackets from leather. See p.240 of Motorcycle Jackets by Rin Tanaka. They also used vinyl and sheepskin.

Baron Kurtz · Jan 6, 2014

I don't know that they ever made the jacket above in leather (I also have only ever seen waxed cotton and rubberised versions), they certainly made leather jackets back in the day. For example from the late 60s or 70s:

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

aswatland said:
Belstaff did make some early MC jackets from leather. See p.240 of Motorcycle Jackets by Rin Tanaka. They also used vinyl and sheepskin.

The same model with 4 pockets that I posted? BTW, what's the name of this kind of jacket?

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

Baron Kurtz said:
I don't know that they ever made the jacket above in leather (I also have only ever seen waxed cotton and rubberised versions)

In my town they are very common in very dark green waxed cotton with a corduroy collar. But most of them are made by Barbour;

and never in leather. I don't know elsewhere but in my town, it's the preppies' official outfit. This picture could have been perfectly taken around here;

If you come to visit, bring your Barbour and you'll look like local

l0fielectronic · Jan 6, 2014

The earliest four pocket Belstaff in leather I've seen looked to be from the eighties and wasn't quite so classically styled as the above as it was a functional 'real' motorcycle version more inline with their current Pure Motorcycle range.

Little bit on the history of the company http://www.bel-store.co.uk/Belstaff-History.aspx

wanz · Jan 6, 2014

I believe that style was originally made in waxed cotton. Belstaff used to include a metal tag with a serial number and the year that the jacket was introduced (not sure if the new owners still do this). The tag in my waxed cotton version (aka Trialmaster) says that it was introduced in 1948. The tag in my leather version (aka Panther) says that it was introduced in 1960.

wdw · Jan 6, 2014

I had the leather Panther and the difference between the toughness spiel and the actual leather was laughable. I also had the heavy waxed cotton Che Guevara (as opposed to the thinner, cheaper, much more common Roadmaster), which looked the same as the Panther, and much preferred the Che.

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

l0fielectronic said:
Little bit on the history of the company http://www.bel-store.co.uk/Belstaff-History.aspx

Thanks for the link, very informative.

wanz said:
The tag in my waxed cotton version (aka Trialmaster) says that it was introduced in 1948. The tag in my leather version (aka Panther) says that it was introduced in 1960.

Ok, so, the original name of these jackets was "Trialmaster".

wdw said:
I had the leather Panther and the difference between the toughness spiel and the actual leather was laughable. I also had the heavy waxed cotton Che Guevara (as opposed to the thinner, cheaper, much more common Roadmaster), which looked the same as the Panther, and much preferred the Che.

Since you had one, probably you are on the know; was the belt removable?

wdw · Jan 6, 2014

Yes, the belt is removable.

Seb Lucas · Jan 6, 2014

Wasn't this design adapted from a military source? I'm sure I've seen fabric versions of this style that go back to early 20th century.

wanz · Jan 6, 2014

Seb Lucas said:
Wasn't this design adapted from a military source? I'm sure I've seen fabric versions of this style that go back to early 20th century.

I think that the Barbour International jackets were based off of World War II submarine jackets...

http://www.britishmotorcyclegear.com/barbour-international-jacket.asp

I am not sure that there is a generic name for the jacket. I looked into them a bit a few years ago. It seemed like both Barbour and Belstaff claimed to have originated the design... and both claim affiliation with Steve McQueen.

At this point, the Barbour International is a much better value than the Belstaff Trialmaster (if you're in the market for a waxed cotton version). I think that Belstaff still has the leather Panther version in their line, but it is way overpriced. Their are other makers (e.g. Lewis Leathers) that offer the same style at a lower price point (and imo better quality).

Plumbline · Jan 6, 2014

The Belstaff Trailmaster and the Barbour International Trials ( the traditional 4 pocket waxed cotton motorcycle jacket of the late 1940's and early 1950's ) were never originally made in leather ... they were designed as waterproof "overjackets".

Barbour did a submariner suit in the 40's and the International Trials was based on the 1940's submariner jacket ( The "Ursula" I think ) they also did a military issue Motorcycle Dispatch Rider suit and long jacket.

The modern ones areof a much lighter waxed cotton (6oz) as opposed to 8oz and 10oz in the original 1950's versions. I have had several 1960's jackets and they're much better than the later versions ( with triple thickness quilted shoulders and elbows) .... the modern ones are getting there but are still very light and more fashion than function IMHO.

Barbour did the "Bushman" in the late 60's in leather I seem to recall ... but this is a more traditional "country" jacket rather than a M/C jacket.

Belstaff did many M/C leather jackets but these were more traditional W lapel design in the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's ..... they are now Italian owned, manufactured in China and ridiculously over priced

Aerojoe · Jan 6, 2014

Good info

Funny to find out it was a submariner jacket.

Let me get this straight :eusa_doh: the Belstaff Panther, the very same one that costs €1,465, is made in China? I can't believe it!

Silverpoint · Jan 7, 2014

You are correct about the current owners so Belstaff. However, the previous owners, who steered the line fairly successfully between their well defined motorcycle designs and their fashion line have reincarnated in their new brand- Matchless Jackets. Worth taking a gander at, but warning- pricing is not for the faint hearted. http://www.matchlesslondon.com/en/uomo/leather-collection.html

wanz · Jan 7, 2014

Aerojoe said:
Good info Funny to find out it was a submariner jacket.

Let me get this straight :eusa_doh: the Belstaff Panther, the very same one that costs €1,465, is made in China? I can't believe it!

They are actually made in Italy, but are still overpriced.

http://www.belstaff.com/men/outerwear/jackets-and-coats/the-panther-jacket/71120006.html

Baron Kurtz · Jan 7, 2014

An old member here who worked in zipper procurement (I think; at least something in the zipper line) at Belstaff in the 1960s is adamant that the beginning of the end for Belstaff was the abandonment of Lightning and adoption of YKK zippers in the early 1970s. I think this move induced him to quit.

Stearmen · Jan 7, 2014

Plumbline said:
The Belstaff Trailmaster and the Barbour International Trials ( the traditional 4 pocket waxed cotton motorcycle jacket of the late 1940's and early 1950's ) were never originally made in leather ... they were designed as waterproof "overjackets".

Barbour did a submariner suit in the 40's and the International Trials was based on the 1940's submariner jacket ( The "Ursula" I think ) they also did a military issue Motorcycle Dispatch Rider suit and long jacket.

The modern ones areof a much lighter waxed cotton (6oz) as opposed to 8oz and 10oz in the original 1950's versions. I have had several 1960's jackets and they're much better than the later versions ( with triple thickness quilted shoulders and elbows) .... the modern ones are getting there but are still very light and more fashion than function IMHO.

Barbour did the "Bushman" in the late 60's in leather I seem to recall ... but this is a more traditional "country" jacket rather than a M/C jacket.

Belstaff did many M/C leather jackets but these were more traditional W lapel design in the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's ..... they are now Italian owned, manufactured in China and ridiculously over priced

You have the Barbour story backwards! The International motorcycle suit came first, then the Ursula submarine jacket. Here is a pretty good article on it, cuts through some of the tall tails, which includes Queen Marry. http://thevintageshowroom.com/2009/12/ursula-suit.html

Were Belstaff jackets originally made with leather?

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