Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Did G-1s Get Larger?

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
Good day everybody,

First time poster, though I have spent many an hour researching on the site.

I have a question for the G-1 experts here. I spent 22 years flying for the Marines and had two issued G-1s during that time. The first I was issued in 1990. It had a great crosshatched grain and was cut close to the body in a very "uniform-like" manner. In researching G-1s online and running across Moore's auction site, I immediately recognized the fit of these jackets in the older G-1s and M-422As he had available.

Here's myself and my two compatriots right after we were issued our originals:



and here's a later shot when my jacket and I were about ten years older:




Here's a shot borrowed from Moore's site that shows the close uniform cut:



Eventually, I stupidly turned my original jacket in (mostly because the large WW II style VMA-211 patch that I had sewn on it never quite did it for me...old 211 patches were rare and usually roughly made, this one was a poor reproduction). The replacement G-1 I received in 2004 was much lower in quality. Not quite the "pebbled leather" that we used to derisively call "pleather" for its stiffness and lack of subtlety, it was still thinner and stiffer than the jacket I received as a lieutenant. It was also oddly sized. My original jacket was size 44 but the new one I received had to be a size 48 and I didn't grow THAT much! :D Plus, the cut was much roomier around the waist than my previous issue.

For those reasons and since I never thought that the recent issue jackets were what they once were and nowhere near the equal of the aftermarket jackets that could be found from the usual suspects, I also had a hybrid M-422A/G-1 made by Flightsuits Ltd (now Gibson and Barnes). It is a beautiful jacket and I wore it for many years (with a leather VMA-211 patch handmade by my father), but now find myself a little less inclined to wear my patched up jacket around lest I be seen as showing off...a weird consequence of being a military aviator is that you ever feel somehow guilty for wearing your flight jacket around very much, it's like a sin. That goes double if you have patches on it.

Anyway, I ordered me up another Gibson and Barnes G-1; this one pure mil-spec to replace my undecorated issue G-1 that I feel more comfortable wearing. I was surprised to find when I received it however that it was also widely cut like my late issue jackets, perhaps even more so. I have not decided if I should keep the G+B G-1, have it recut to a custom size, or try another jacket maker. G+B has what I think is the nicest current issue G-1 out there with a lot of attention to detail, but I do want a uniform jacket, not one "generously cut" for some theoretical civilian market.


So, at long last, my questions are:

Has the spec changed for the US Navy issued G-1 and when? Is this just how the jackets are cut these days or have the aftermarket makers across the board decided to make their jackets more fully cut. Do any of the "mil-spec" makers actually make jackets for the Navy or is that just advertising and are the jackets churned out by some lesser known maker on the cheap as my second issue jacket?


Anyway, thanks for any input. Below are some pics of the three jackets that I still own side by side. Left to right they are:

1. Issue G-1 jacket, 2004
2. Gibson and Barnes "mil-spec" G-1, new
3. Gibson and Barnes M-422A (modified with G-1 cut collar and double ply waist and wrist bands)











Deacon
 

Fanch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,490
Location
Texas
Deacon, I was a US Naval flight surgeon in another lifetime and was issued a G-1 in 1967 that definitely had a military cut. IMO the G&B quality is first rate, although I am of the impression that their sizing is generous, particularly with their current military issue A-2 jackets, maybe less so with the G-1's. [huh] I will be in San Diego in a couple of months and will try to report on the FL how their military jackets are sized since it is my understanding that there is variation between various military models. Stay tuned. :D
 

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,718
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
Hi Deacon and welcome to the forum. I never flew for the military, but I've been collecting and wearing G-1s for some time. I would answer your question by saying first they got smaller, especially in the torso, and then they got larger again. For any given size, the WWII M-422A was longer and larger in the torso than a typical Vietnam era G-1. And the modern G-1 (90s to present) is a bit larger in the torso, but no longer, than the Vietnam era jacket. But...vintage G-1s all vary greatly within any given size.

AF

I forgot to mention...my comments are made with respect to issued jackets, only. I think the "mil-spec" jackets are all over the map as to cut and sizing.
 
Last edited:

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
Thanks guys!

I recall the Flightsuits (and several other makers) catalogues of years past stating that the "civil" versions of the jacket were cut fuller than the mil-spec ones. It seems like they say that less now than before. I wonder if they just received too many returns of people ordering the mil versions and finding them too snug in the waist...i.e. thinking they wanted mil-spec but not really.

I have seen three of the heavy hitters in the US all claim that they provide jackets to the DoD (even though sometimes they voice it carefully like "suppliers of equipment to the US Military"). But, I've never seen a jacket worn by an actual aviator that came from any of the more famous makers (Avirex, Cooper, G+B, etc). To be fair, after I got off active duty, I spent the next ten years hanging about in a reserve unit with majors and lieutenant colonels who would all probably have gotten their jackets at about the same time as I did. Still, except for the exchange, the jackets were all from some unknown maker and not generally of very good quality.

While I wasn't greatly impressed with my first issue jacket at the time, I wish I had it now. It just hung well and seemed to fit straight down my torso (even though my torso isn't straight). The second one had that sort of bag fit that my airline jacket had; kind of a leather Hefty bag, with arms. It was still an OK jacket, but didn't look crisp like you would expect in a uniform.

It's interesting that the two of you are the first people to answer this post. I coincidentally spent much of my ten years of active duty in either Cherry Point, NC or Beeville and Kingsville, TX!

Thanks again.

Deacon
 
Last edited:

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,718
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
Deacon, of the three G-1 makers you mention in your post, I think the only one who had a contract was Cooper. Avirex made A-2s for the Air Force, but I don't think they ever had a G-1 contract.

This is an issued 1992 Cooper G-1. It is made of the best goatskin I've seen in any modern G-1. It is actually one of my favorite wearer jackets.

Dscn0087.jpg



BTW...yes, I grew up right between Cherry Point and New River. It seems like half the kids I knew in high school (1970-1974) wore vintage G-1s, which is probably why I became interested in Navy jackets in the first place. Heck, even though my dad was a P-47 jock in WWII, I didn't see an issued A-2 in real life until I was an adult!

AF
 

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
That's a beauty of a jacket and looks exactly like my first issue...the cut, the collar, even the waistband. For a few years, I also had a Avirex jacket. It was really nicely made, but I lost it to an ex-girlfriend at some point.

That's quite an aircraft you have there as well! I love the lines of the older planes.

Deacon
 

nick123

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,362
Location
California
I think G&B has changed their designs around in the last year or so (bigger). Try checking ebay or if the sale page has what you're looking for, call them and try to get a read on when it was made.
 

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
I think G&B has changed their designs around in the last year or so (bigger). Try checking ebay or if the sale page has what you're looking for, call them and try to get a read on when it was made.

Interesting. The jacket I ordered was made on the spot since that size was out of stock so I guess that is why it was roomier.

Honestly, I've had a much worse customer service experience with these guys than when I ordered my jacket from them in, say, 1998. They are very polite, but getting information from them is like pulling teeth. I didn't know if my order went through until I called them several days after I ordered it (no emailed invoice or any acknowledgement of the order). Then it took another call to find out it was basically being made for me. Another call to get a tracking number only to find that it hadn't shipped yet. Inevitably it makes one wonder how long the process would have taken if I never made any phone calls.

As much as I like the quality of the jacket, I am very seriously considering trying another maker, just to avoid any further headaches.

What about US Wings? It seems as though they make some nice jackets. Perhaps a better way to go?
 

kampkatz

Practically Family
Messages
715
Location
Central Pennsylvania
My first G-1 was issued during primary at Pensacola in 1974. I remember remarking to the clerk that it seemed a bit roomy, but his response was that they had orders to issue the jacket 2 sizes larger than the flight suit. We were also told that they were made of Naugahyde(?)
 

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,718
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
My first G-1 was issued during primary at Pensacola in 1974. I remember remarking to the clerk that it seemed a bit roomy, but his response was that they had orders to issue the jacket 2 sizes larger than the flight suit. We were also told that they were made of Naugahyde(?)

No...but those mid-seventies, cowhide G-1s sure felt like Naugahyde. They had a sprayed-on finish that squeaked like crazy when you moved and they were as thick and heavy as if they were made from boot leather.

This is a 1976 Imperial Leather G-1 that still sounds like a flock of seagulls when I wear it. Its so thick I'm sure it would deflect most small-caliber pistol ammunition.

DSCN0507.jpg


AF
 

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
No...but those mid-seventies, cowhide G-1s sure felt like Naugahyde. They had a sprayed-on finish that squeaked like crazy when you moved and they were as thick and heavy as if they were made from boot leather.

This is a 1976 Imperial Leather G-1 that still sounds like a flock of seagulls when I wear it. Its so thick I'm sure it would deflect most small-caliber pistol ammunition.


AF


Hehe, the naugahyde was the material I was thinking of. I was lucky with my jacket. One of my buddies in that picture got the "naugahyde" cowskin I guess it was. His almost looked like plastic, it had virtually no grain and a surface that looked like it had been pressed into the material with large bubbles or pebbles that gave it its name (well, our name for it).
 

Biggles88a

New in Town
Messages
33
Location
Germany
Gibson&Barnes size caution and G-1 size talk

Hello all,

I have started buying G&B G-1 jackets in the early nineties when they were still called FLIGHTSUITS LTD. I really enjoy them for their honest work and great workmanship. Authenticity has already been discussed in this forum. In the early jackets I have a size 44, but these days I am easy a size 42 (I have a M-422a at home in 44 which wears like a generous size 46 easy, about 12 years old), and even a size 40 in their A-2s. Wow. The last jacket I have bought about six weeks ago was a WEP jacket, well fitting in size MEDIUM REG! With still good space to spare in the chest. Everything I usually wear is size LARGE. Really strange. I advocate always ordering from them with the option of a return due to size. Back to topic.

Today I have been taken pictures of the following jackets for a sizing reference:
a) USWINGS G-1 size 44, blabla goatskin, but military tight cut.
b) COOPER CIVIL Version (blue label) G-1 in size 44, so lala goatskin, but comfy fit.
c) COOPER MIL SPEC (ISSUED 1995) in size 44, same as above, maybe a little more "veg tanned" feeling, still chrome tanned.
d) FLIGHTSUITS G-1 size 44, nice goatskin, but of course not veg tanned but chrome, oh well...
e) FLIGHTSUITS G-1 size 44 long, ok goatskin, but very generous fit.
f) AVIATORS CLOTHING CO G-1 Spec 55J14 in size 44, great goatskin, tight on the body but still good room across the chest.
By the way, JC offered an absolutely awesome M-422a for sale a while back in a size 44 which I tried on but couldn't close up front.

I'll post the pictures whenever I am able to upload attachments, don't want to clog the forum, though.

Greetings!
 

Tkecks

Familiar Face
Messages
70
Location
USA
Yes, please post the photos! I've recently got interested in these flight jackets, but am a bit befuddled by all the sizing issues. I'm ~46 chest, but long bodied, which makes all the jackets even shorter on me.
 

Biggles88a

New in Town
Messages
33
Location
Germany
AVIATORS CLOTHING G-1 55J14, photos last but not least

Here are some pictures of a G-1, AVIATORS CLOTHING CO. INC., size 44 with the following measurements:
Width across the back: 18 inches
Width of the bi-swing-back: 17.125 inches
Back length from the base of the collar to the lower end of the waist knit: 22.5 inches
Front across chest: 24 inches
Arm length: 26 inches
I am usually a size 44 (+/ - 1) and this jackets fits, but just so. Glove like. I can still comfortably close the zipper and cover the chest. The wrist knits are torn but the gentleman seller has provided high quality replacements (which I haven't had exchanged yet). The overall condition I would rate 8.5 out of 10, with slight overall wear to the leather. I am not 100 % certain that it is the original mouton but there are no repair signs and the mouton is in perfect condition in a great color. CONMAR zipper works like new. The leather feels awesome to the touch and has great grain. Please find some images attached for your convenience. Please enjoy a fine day.
Biggles88a





 

Aerojoe

Practically Family
Messages
587
Location
Basque Country
The Moore Custom guy collects G-1s from 422a spec to 7823D (early versions). 7823 A - B or C are all delightful, even luxurius. In the early 1970s, second batch of 7823D collars started to be synthetic. And since 7823E, overall quality went down and down.

I own a Cockpit G-1 "Mil spec", this one;

http://www.original-flightjackets.c...Navy/G-1-Military-US-Navy-modern-day::20.html

Cockpit is not an official supplier but the sizing of this jacket follows some kind of military rule. I am a US46 and I had to pick up this jacket in size 42. I had to go 2 sizes down. It's quite roomy and back length is perfect.

This jacket is a good choice for $300 or less, not for $500. I'd say quality of leather and handcrafting is medium or regular. Collar is real fur at least, zipper is sturdy and the jacket is quite warm with more than enough room for a pullover.
 

robrinay

One Too Many
Messages
1,489
Location
Sheffield UK
I sold my time worn 44" Eastman M422a as the sleeves were too short for me at 24" and used the cash to buy on eBay a Gibson and Barnes civil G1 in a size 40" R it fits my 43" chest tall broad shouldered frame nicely - I consider it a 44" L in reality and with the change I got set of roof bars for my BMW X1. The goat skin is supple and well textured and the genuine mouton collar only slightly worn. Purists may dislike the hand warmer pockets but unless you are using them they are barely noticeable and of course they keep your hands warm.
The poor bloke I bought the G and B from hadn't asked for dimensions when he'd bought it and he said it it hung like a sack from his actual 40" R frame.
Yup sizing varies massively between manufacturers so as is stated ad infinitum on FL always ask for the dimensions if buying and always list them if selling.
Deacon211
If you are reading this - check your private messages
 
Last edited:

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
Great looking jacket Biggles!

robrinay, I know what you mean. Unfortunately, the problem I had with my recent G+B purchase is that the 46 was right for the shoulders, but enormous in the waist. When I tried the 44, I found that it was still roomy in the waist, but better, but now the chest was right on the edge of being tight.

My G+B 1997 422A is really cut completely differently and fits quite like my 1990 issue jacket. A nice military fit.

I hope they read this and trim down their jackets a bit. They still have the Civil G-1 for the roomier fit so really, everybody can be happy. :)

Deacon
 

Deacon211

One Too Many
Messages
1,012
Location
Kentucky
I actually didn't realize that this was my original thread. Since I posted, I decided to return the G+B G-1, purchased an Eastman G-1 (I already had their B-6 and love it) and recently put a downpayment on a Goodwear.

I really opened Pandora's Box coming here! :D



Deacon
 

Forum statistics

Threads
107,030
Messages
3,026,713
Members
52,533
Latest member
RacerJ
Top