Black tuxedo and….

ChrisT · Jun 12, 2014

I have a big problem, I had a vintage black tuxedo BUT its trouser is now out of order.

It’s impossible to find fabric in exactly the same black.

May you wear a black tuxedo with a pant in an other color? If yes in what kind of color?
I wear it sometime with a kilt but in some occasion it is not an option.

Edward · Jun 12, 2014

Black is the hardest of all colours to match. Black tie wear is an established code, though, and for it to be "correct", they need to be black trousers with some form of stripe down the side. I've always had good luck matching modern black barentha to vintage and modern black barentha, but otherwise, it's a bit hit and miss. Might be as cheap to go looking for a full vintage dj & matching trousers in your size on eBay.

Claudio · Jun 12, 2014

will be very hard to do IMO. Make sure you check not only the colour shade but also the texture of the fabric, this too needs to match. Let go of it and look for another one

Two Types · Jun 12, 2014

I have had no difficulty mixing trousers with dinner jackets. Try it and see if it works.

Rabbit · Jun 12, 2014

ChrisT said:
May you wear a black tuxedo with a pant in an other color? If yes in what kind of color?.

Generally no, although we sometimes come across photos of men in evening clothes with the jacket in black and the trousers in cream. Usually of course the combination is the other way around, cream jacket and black trousers.
I associate that look (black jacket and cream trousers, that is) mostly with the stage - the formation dance scene in Astaire's Gay Divorcee in front of the hotel comes to mind - but I've also seen it in 1920s photos. Obviously it would be an option for summer only, if at all.

ChrisT · Jun 13, 2014

Rabbit said:
I associate that look (black jacket and cream trousers, that is) mostly with the stage - the formation dance scene in Astaire's Gay Divorcee in front of the hotel comes to mind

I will try to find a picture of it.

Rabbit · Jun 13, 2014

ChrisT said:
I will try to find a picture of it.

No problem, I have the DVD and can post some screenshots later today.

ChrisT · Jun 13, 2014

do it please

Rabbit · Jun 13, 2014

Screenshots from The Gay Divorcee (1934)

One half of the dancers wears normal summer black tie, the other half wears a DB black jacket and cream evening trousers with braided side seams. You can see the braided outseam quite clearly in the fifth picture, and in first picture, too.

Like I said, I guess it's more of a stage thing.

If I were to try that combination, I'd follow their example in footwear. It seems they're wearing oxford laced white bucks. The dirt on the cap area in the closeups strongly suggests buckskin.
Black shoes simply look less than ideal under cream trousers. Black and white spectators, although fine for a navy blazer and cream trousers, have no place here either.
Of course, the whole look is not what proper black tie or even summer/ tropical black tie is all about.

Cream trousers with braided side seam do turn up on ebay, although rarely. I stumbled over maybe three of them in the last twelve months.

ChrisT · Jun 14, 2014

thank you Rabbit :eusa_clap

ChrisT · Jun 15, 2014

Vincent-E-in-MorningCoat-Vanity-Fair-4.-April-1899.jpg

do you think a pinstriped morning suit trouser could be an option?

Fastuni · Jun 15, 2014

Absolutely not an option.
Striped (they are not "pinstriped" but an own category... there were also check and houndstooth) morning trousers belong to the cutaway and Stroller/Stresemann (simple black jacket).
Tuxedos are evening wear - so they are mutually exclusive.

Cobden · Jun 15, 2014

White trousers with black dinner jackets were the required dress in some Gentlemen's Clubs in the Indian Raj. Apparently, in Calcutta, one could tell which club someone belonged to by whether they wore white trousers and black DJ, a white DJ with black trousers, white mess jacket with black trousers, or a full black DJ....

Rabbit · Jun 15, 2014

Cobden said:
White trousers with black dinner jackets were the required dress in some Gentlemen's Clubs in the Indian Raj. Apparently, in Calcutta, one could tell which club someone belonged to by whether they wore white trousers and black DJ, a white DJ with black trousers, white mess jacket with black trousers, or a full black DJ....

Very interesting! I'd be keen to find further information on this.

It could have been a 1930s U.S. movie set in India, possibly The Rains Came (1939), where I saw the cream trousers and black DJ combination. Not sure, though.

Do you recall what type of shoes were worn with the white/ cream trousers?

ChrisT, you'll find a fairly good overview of semiformal evening wear (Black Tie/ Dinner clothes/ Tuxedo) in the Black Tie Guide. It's not mainly vintage-oriented, nevertheless it's a good site to start from.
There is also a section on formal and semi-formal daywear (Morning suit and Stroller, respectively).
The striped trouser fabrics, of which there were many variations, are called cashmere stripes.

ChrisT · Jun 16, 2014

Cobden said:
White trousers with black dinner jackets were the required dress in some Gentlemen's Clubs in the Indian Raj. Apparently, in Calcutta, one could tell which club someone belonged to by whether they wore white trousers and black DJ, a white DJ with black trousers, white mess jacket with black trousers, or a full black DJ....

Very interesting Cobden and thank you for the links Rabbit.

GBR · Jun 22, 2014

ChrisT said:
I have a big problem, I had a vintage black tuxedo BUT its trouser is now out of order.

It’s impossible to find fabric in exactly the same black.

May you wear a black tuxedo with a pant in an other color? If yes in what kind of color?
I wear it sometime with a kilt but in some occasion it is not an option.

No, maybe time to invest in new?

GBR · Jun 22, 2014

Rabbit said:
Screenshots from The Gay Divorcee (1934)

One half of the dancers wears normal summer black tie, the other half wears a DB black jacket and cream evening trousers with braided side seams. You can see the braided outseam quite clearly in the fifth picture, and in first picture, too.

Like I said, I guess it's more of a stage thing.

If I were to try that combination, I'd follow their example in footwear. It seems they're wearing oxford laced white bucks. The dirt on the cap area in the closeups strongly suggests buckskin.
Black shoes simply look less than ideal under cream trousers. Black and white spectators, although fine for a navy blazer and cream trousers, have no place here either.
Of course, the whole look is not what proper black tie or even summer/ tropical black tie is all about.

Cream trousers with braided side seam do turn up on ebay, although rarely. I stumbled over maybe three of them in the last twelve months.

Costume not the real world I'm afraid.

ChrisT · Jun 25, 2014

GBR said:
No, maybe time to invest in new?

It's very hard to find an old one from a dead stock in my size.

Fastuni · Jun 25, 2014

Why does it have to be deadstock?

ChrisT · Jun 25, 2014

I don't wear used clothes and I want a tuxedo from the 50' or the 40'

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