Is Christmas Ruined Forever?

Stanley Doble said:

Not at all. He is just as real as Spiderman.

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Born in 64 and parents being 'intellectuals' I have never (not even as child) meet someone who actually believed in Santa.

But Santa is not important! - IMHO: Tell him how it is - Sorry mom!

No It's when it comes to the Bethlehem story that you and your wife really have to agree on going with the fairytale or not ;-)

Wow, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses on my question. Thank you all so much for your input. We've taken a lot of things into consideration when it comes to the holidays. We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question.

Edward said:

Santa's all very well, but personally I think we need Krampmas to make a big comeback, just to keep the kids in check.... (it might be a good thing I'm not a parent).

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I totally agree that Krampus needs to make a comeback. Terrifying the children into good behavior; always a good choice.

Panadora said:

No It's when it comes to the Bethlehem story that you and your wife really has to agree on going with the fairytale or not ;-)

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I've already talked to my wife about this whole thing and we've decided that when the time is right, he will understand the facts behind Christmas and know of its Pagan origins. But that's a whole other story!

GoetzManor said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses on my question. Thank you all so much for your input. We've taken a lot of things into consideration when it comes to the holidays. We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question. ...

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You're over-thinking this thing way too much.

GoetzManor said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses on my question. Thank you all so much for your input. We've taken a lot of things into consideration when it comes to the holidays. We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question.

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Gee, if you get that worked up over Santa, your head's going to explode when he asks where babies come from.

It sounds like you and your wife would be uncomfortable passing off a fairy tale as fact to your son, and that could cast a pall over your enjoyment of the holidays.

I'm happy to hear you want to raise your son to be a truth seeker. Some people think life is sunshine and roses if you believe in magic (or, the grown-up version, think positively), and drudgery when you face reality. My observation is that people who persist in believing things they probably suspect aren't true are frustrated and unhappy, spinning their wheels and avoiding cognitive dissonance. Personally, I find life is so much easier when dealing in facts. But you can be a truth seeker and enjoy stories and fantasy for what they are. I, for one, may not believe in the Christmas story, but I love Christmas music as much as anyone.

Just what the world needs - more 4 year old "truth seekers". You can "seek the truth" when you grow up. Let the kid be a kid and believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin until they grow out of it on their own.
However, if you're going to turn the poor unfortunate kid into an adult "truth-seeker" at such an early age, be sure to also fill them in on Ebola, ISIS, campaign-finance scandals, and whatever else is wrong with the world.
I think more and more how lucky I was to grow up when I did.

GoetzManor said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses on my question. Thank you all so much for your input. We've taken a lot of things into consideration when it comes to the holidays. We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question.


I totally agree that Krampus needs to make a comeback. Terrifying the children into good behavior; always a good choice.


I've already talked to my wife about this whole thing and we've decided that when the time is right, he will understand the facts behind Christmas and know of its Pagan origins. But that's a whole other story!

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Why be a Grinch today...when you can always wait to be the Grinch tomorrow? lol!

Hope you will all have a wonderful Christmas this year!

rjb1 said:

Just what the world needs - more 4 year old "truth seekers". You can "seek the truth" when you grow up. Let the kid be a kid and believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin until they grow out of it on their own.
However, if you're going to turn the poor unfortunate kid into an adult "truth-seeker" at such an early age, be sure to also fill them in on Ebola, ISIS, campaign-finance scandals, and whatever else is wrong with the world.
I think more and more how lucky I was to grow up when I did.

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Agreed!

Proof is in the pudding, American traditions are going further and further into the toilet..........................only one republic has stayed the test of time for how much longer, I wonder?

GoetzManor said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting to get so many responses on my question. Thank you all so much for your input. We've taken a lot of things into consideration when it comes to the holidays. We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question.

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When I asked my mother why the Santa presents had Mammoth Mart tags on them she told me "because it's cheaper than Sears."

Even when I believed in Santa I knew the elf stuff was the bunk. They always showed elves hand-carving wooden toys, and I knew the only toys I ever had that looked like that came from the prison outlet store.

'Am I completely crazy by trying to change things up or am I the only one who feels like Christmas has lost its sentiment?'

Enough said. Many are sounding like Mother which is of absolutely no concern or influence in this. He was only looking for those in agreement and not disagreeable with a determined mindset. More to do with that than any sentiment it seems.
HD

GoetzManor said:

We want to raise him as a truth seeker and personally, if you start out with Santa, then you have to explain how he gets around, then you have to explain reindeer, and then you have to explain how he makes so many toys that look awfully similar to the ones in the store. Then you have to explain elves, and then you have to explain where he sets up shop and how he gets around so quickly. Then you have to explain why he's not arrested for breaking and entering. Then you have to explain why even though little Johnny is a "butt face", he received gifts instead of coal. I'm going to need a notebook to write down all these little white lies so I can keep track if he comes back at me with a question.

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When your child gets to the point where they are asking questions like that is when you first ask them what they think. How do YOU think Santa gets around? Do YOU think reindeer can fly? How do YOU think he gets into houses undetected?

Honestly, once they are in school (age 4 or 5) they know it's a fairy tale unless they are isolated. He's going to hear the story at some point, and I think you ought to ask yourself, "How do I want my son to find out Santa is not real? From me, or from using his own head?"

At some point, if your son is a good questioner, he'll do his own "research" and use his own "logic" and figure it out. If you want a truth seeker, as you point out, then you want an independent thinker. Not a child who is told what is reality by his parents- that will very much make him not a truth seeker.

Note well: I am not saying that you have to play Santa. What I am saying is that choosing to not do Santa and teach your child that Santa is made-up and silly is a very different thing than choosing not to do Santa and telling him that it is a nice tradition that some people have, but your family does not do. I don't plan on telling my child that something that someone believes in that is harmless to them (and my dear ones) is silly. I don't appreciate when people do that to my core beliefs; so I don't go around and do it to other people. And I will not tolerate my child doing that. (Harmful views are another matter; I don't think Santa is harmful.)

I also want you to well aware that if you raise an independent thinker, they may very well think differently than you. That can mean different political views, different religion, different morals. Lot's of people who say they want to raise an independent thinker actually mean a carbon copy of themselves because they see no value in opinions, morals, and religions they don't agree with. To them being an independent thinker is only someone who thinks like them. In other words, you may not like the truth your son someday finds.

I don't want you to think I mean any of this in a harsh way, because I honestly don't. It's incongruent thoughts from someone still digging out from a snowstorm.

sheeplady said:

I also want you to well aware that if you raise an independent thinker, they may very well think differently than you. That can mean different political views, different religion, different morals. Lot's of people who say they want to raise an independent thinker actually mean a carbon copy of themselves because they see no value in opinions, morals, and religions they don't agree with. To them being an independent thinker is only someone who thinks like them. In other words, you may not like the truth your son someday finds.

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Very good and insightful post sheeplady.
HD

HoosierDaddy said:

Very good and insightful post sheeplady.
HD

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Agreed.

sheeplady said:

In other words, you may not like the truth your son someday finds.

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Boy, my parents didn't! But we still got along pretty well and didn't try to change each other's minds. (And good post, BTW.)

My mother says kids are so well informed today that the baby will probably have it figured out by the time he's two. She thought since he'd be on to it so quickly, it wouldn't make much difference, but she's always been a laissez-faire kind of mom.

Sheeplady, Paisley, LuvMyMan & LizzieMaine

Great & insightful posts.

:eusa_clap Thank You Ladies !

Panadora said:

Born in 64 and parents being 'intellectuals' I have never (not even as child) meet someone who actually believed in Santa.

But Santa is not important! - IMHO: Tell him how it is - Sorry mom!

No It's when it comes to the Bethlehem story that you and your wife really have to agree on going with the fairytale or not ;-)

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fftopic: Sad that anti-theists need to throw a snide remark in at any given opportunity. Sorry folks, couldn't let that one pass peaceably.

Benny Holiday said:

fftopic: Sad that anti-theists need to throw a snide remark in at any given opportunity. Sorry folks, couldn't let that one pass peaceably.

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Everyone believes in something unexplainable thru "rational means," whether it's God, the "Invisible Hand of the Market," or the Red Sox building a decent pitching staff between now and April. Theists are merely honest about it.

That said, I think the modern conception of Christmas has more to do with the Boys than with anything Jesus ever said, did, or taught. Loving your neighbor, peace on earth and goodwill to men were meant for every day of the year, not just some assimilated Roman solstice festival.

fftopic:

LizzieMaine said:

Everyone believes in something unexplainable thru "rational means," whether it's God, the "Invisible Hand of the Market," or the Red Sox building a decent pitching staff between now and April. Theists are merely honest about it.

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Respectfully, atheism (in the broadest sense) is the lack of a belief in a god, not the lack of a belief in anything that can't be explained by rational means. Buddhists, for example (who don't believe in a god) believe in karma and reincarnation. I don't know what their position would be on the Santa question.