what was an old fashioned Antique store like back in 1890 - 1920?

I have heard that the Welk band could swing pretty good, but his sponsors made him play it square. After a few years he had a following that liked things a certain way, but still they would cut loose from time to time when on the road.

LizzieMaine said:

It serves the get-rich-quickkers right when it turns out they can't sell their five hundred unopened cases of baseball cards from 1989 because every other now-middle-aged "collectibles" speculator put five hundred unopened cases of baseball cards in their own attics in 1989. Enjoy your stale bubble gum, chumps.

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And we're talking sports cards collectors, the bottom feeders of the collecting world. I should know, a friend of mine owned a sports card shop.

On the show "Pawn Stars" on "History," which, despite its many flaws, still gets some interesting pieces of history on it, the owner said it all when he said that nothing issued as "collectable" or "for collectors," etc. is ever valuable later. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that makes so much sense. I'm not a collector - of anything (I do own some old items, but I buy them because I like them, I don't buy them as a collector) - but it never made sense to me that something issued as a "collectable" would ultimately be of much value as the old things today that have value seem to be those that were either rare or unique in their time or where not saved so there are relatively few remaining now.

As to intrinsic value - that term is incredibly difficult to define - but I was trying to reference that, for example, an antique chair has some intrinsic value in the sense that you can sit on it - it can serve as a chair - which most people would say humans need, but that part of it has maybe $10 or $20 of intrinsic value and the rest is "collector," or "antique" value which is fickle and subject to cultural and social change. Another way of thinking of intrinsic value is that a government bond that pays $100 in interest a year - is worth something because it provides a cash flow - there is some intrinsic value. i.e., you can buy food with the $100 - but a rare painting, while it can be quite valuable, has little intrinsic value in that it doesn't provide any basic use or cash flow that most humans need day to day.

As to profiting on this stuff, it's not my thing, but I don't think there is anything wrong with people trying to buy antiques to make money on them, especially as in an example above, since they also risk losing money. As long as they were fair, honest and transparent in their transaction, trying to make money by having an astute sense of the marketplace, or just getting lucky, seems reasonable. Of course, some people are obnoxious in how they go about it - but some people are obnoxious in how they go about everything.

yep, I think that is true, about nothing issued as "collectable" or for collector's is ever valuable later, a good example is the stuff they sell as limited production by Franklin Mint, and they say something like only 3,000 of these sets will be made, and suggest you reserve one for your collection today before they are all gone.

I'm reminded here of the Rocky Horror figurines of sixteen odd years ago that were issued in "Strictly! Limited! Editions!" of 5,000 each. Several years later, one design in particular kept turning up MIB in all sorts of stores, new, for less than 10% of its original price.

sheeplady said:

Maybe if they burn enough of the other 1960s through 1980s does country orange furniture, my table will be worth money. That would be hilarious.

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It could yet happen. My parents' generation used to throw early 20th Century chaise lounges on bonfires in the 60s. In the eighties, they became expensive, desirable antiques. I suspect a lot of the 80s stuff will increase in value for as long as the 90s-born still look back to the eighties for fashion inspiration. The only people I've ever known who could love the eighties were either somewhat deranged or didn't have to live through them.

LizzieMaine said:

It serves the get-rich-quickkers right when it turns out they can't sell their five hundred unopened cases of baseball cards from 1989 because every other now-middle-aged "collectibles" speculator put five hundred unopened cases of baseball cards in their own attics in 1989. Enjoy your stale bubble gum, chumps.

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Ha. Tha'ts the Star Wars thing right there. So many people bought the newer action figures and never opened them, thinknig that in twenty years' time they'd be sitting on a goldmine, looking at 1978 issue figures selling for £900 a pop, unopened. Twenty years on, the rare ones are the ones that were actually opened and played with....

Stearmen said:

I saw the same thing with the NASCAR toys! I told one collector back then, they will be worthless in a few years, he pointed to how much 60s and older toys were starting to bring. I told him, there's a reason for that, we played with our toy cars tell the wheels fell off, then it became a flying car, and we played with it until nothing much was left! That's why there are so few pre 80s mint in the box toys.

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Two words: Beanie Babies. There have been some recent internet articles poking fun at the 90's craze and showing how much they're worth now (not a lot, with one or two exceptions). I remember people buying them left and right and storing them in air tight plastic tubs, convinced they'd be able to retire by selling them one day.

green papaya said:

yep, I think that is true, about nothing issued as "collectable" or for collector's is ever valuable later, a good example is the stuff they sell as limited production by Franklin Mint, and they say something like only 3,000 of these sets will be made, and suggest you reserve one for your collection today before they are all gone.

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In my experience the only thing from Franklin Mint or Danbury Mint that seems to be of some value are their diecast classic car models, such as this 1938 GMC Coca-Cola truck, as they're very well made unlike some of their other stuff.

If Welk Records are valuable, I should be able to retire. I have a ton of them. Sadly, they aren't. Play them and enjoy his wonderful music!

F. J. said:

Yep.

I was looking through phonograph records in a thrift a week or two ago and was asked if I was a collector. My reply was that I just liked to listen to ’em.

For my birthday a few years ago, I got an unopened two-disc Lawrence Welk album of great big band hits from 1985. I was quite impressed with how well the Welk orchestra could jazz up some favourites, especially their rendition of “A String of Pearls.” My dad told me that it might be worth some money if I left it unopened. Of course, then I couldn’t listen to it, so what’s the point?

I buy stuff from thrift stores and antique store not as an investment, per se, but rather for the utility they bring me, to use an economics term. I just like to use old stuff.

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Another thing that has plummeted in value is Lionel Trains. A pity, too. My grandpa's collection was sold at a loss. My biggest regret was I didn't have the money to buy it. I don't know what it went for, but I heard Grandma turned down an $8,000 offer.

No money in Welk or Lombardo records . . .

AtomicEraTom said:

If Welk Records are valuable, I should be able to retire. I have a ton of them. Sadly, they aren't. Play them and enjoy his wonderful music!
[...]

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Yep. Very few records are actually valuable, although I know a certain antique store near near me where you can buy LP’s not worth fifty cents for ten bucks a pop.

The problem with "nostalgia" collectibles is that they're collectible only so long as the generation for whom they're nostalgic are alive, active, and posessing disposable income. 1930s memorablia was most collectible in the late sixties and early seventies, when the generation that grew up with it was passing into middle age. Early baby-boomer stuff became collectible in the eighties. Seventies-kid stuff is collectible right now, and nobody particularly cares, with a few exceptions, about thirties stuff because the generation that experienced nostalgia for that period is, for all intents and purposes, dead.

Baby-boomer stuff will experience the same cycle, although it'll take longer given the immense bulk of the boomer generation. But there'll be a time, not far off, when nostalgic collectors will be paying big money for Pokemon junk and ignoring all that picked-over fifties and sixties stuff.

As far as records go, just about any major-label 78 of the thirties or forties is worth about what they cost over the counter at the record store when they were first issued. A box full of Bing Crosby Deccas, Benny Goodman Victors or Glenn Miller Bluebirds has, basically, no "collector" value. The only real value they have is the purpose for which they were originally made -- for listening. Which is fine by me, the fewer sweaty-handed "record collectors" out there pawing around the more records there are for those of us who actually enjoy the music.

LizzieMaine said:

Baby-boomer stuff will experience the same cycle, although it'll take longer given the immense bulk of the boomer generation. But there'll be a time, not far off, when nostalgic collectors will be paying big money for Pokemon junk and ignoring all that picked-over fifties and sixties stuff.

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Something I hope to live long enough to hear but unfortunately I don't think I will.

"The Beatles? What's that?"
To which I would reply, 'you're not missing anything'

Well, at least you don't see much Herman's Hermits memorabilia anymore.

AtomicEraTom said:

Another thing that has plummeted in value is Lionel Trains. A pity, too. My grandpa's collection was sold at a loss. My biggest regret was I didn't have the money to buy it. I don't know what it went for, but I heard Grandma turned down an $8,000 offer.

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Probably because by now most of the collectors, thanks in large part to eBay, already have everything that they've been looking for. I've seen a similar trend in redline Hot Wheels though now it's the early Lesney Matchbox cars that have become highly collectible at present.

LizzieMaine said:

Well, at least you don't see much Herman's Hermits memorabilia anymore.

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"Ahhhhhhhhhh - Cringe" I had totally forgot about them. That horrid sound emulating from my older sister's (the troll) bedroom day and night . Now I need a drink . . . . . . . :eeek:

LizzieMaine said:

Baby-boomer stuff will experience the same cycle, although it'll take longer given the immense bulk of the boomer generation. But there'll be a time, not far off, when nostalgic collectors will be paying big money for Pokemon junk and ignoring all that picked-over fifties and sixties stuff.

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The sooner the better on that one. My oldest was really into it during his grade school days, and now we have boxes filled with it up in our garage attic. Turning it into cash would be sweet: Dad really wants a new Aero Leather ANJ-4 jacket for those cold winter nights.

Besides "Yesterday" there's nothing worth listening to from them.

V.C. Brunswick said:

Something I hope to live long enough to hear but unfortunately I don't think I will.

"The Beatles? What's that?"
To which I would reply, 'you're not missing anything'

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It's all highs and lows. Breweriana was on a low for awhile, now it's so expensive, if we sold the collection, we could probably retire lol

V.C. Brunswick said:

Probably because by now most of the collectors, thanks in large part to eBay, already have everything that they've been looking for. I've seen a similar trend in redline Hot Wheels though now it's the early Lesney Matchbox cars that have become highly collectible at present.

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I wish they were, I bet I have near 1,000 record albums.

F. J. said:

Yep. Very few records are actually valuable, although I know a certain antique store near near me where you can buy LP’s not worth fifty cents for ten bucks a pop.

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Watched that in car trends, too. Model A's used to bring big bucks, now you can buy a very nice one for under ten grand. I'm glad I'm not one of the guys who spent 25 g's restoring one. I dread the day that "riced out" Honda Civics are on the cover of Hemming's.

I've got some very rare Pokemon cards, I bought at the age of 10 or so. It had already fallen out of fashion and nobody really wanted them. I got books full for peanuts. Even then, I knew they'd be valuable in 20-30 years.

LizzieMaine said:

The problem with "nostalgia" collectibles is that they're collectible only so long as the generation for whom they're nostalgic are alive, active, and posessing disposable income. 1930s memorablia was most collectible in the late sixties and early seventies, when the generation that grew up with it was passing into middle age. Early baby-boomer stuff became collectible in the eighties. Seventies-kid stuff is collectible right now, and nobody particularly cares, with a few exceptions, about thirties stuff because the generation that experienced nostalgia for that period is, for all intents and purposes, dead.

Baby-boomer stuff will experience the same cycle, although it'll take longer given the immense bulk of the boomer generation. But there'll be a time, not far off, when nostalgic collectors will be paying big money for Pokemon junk and ignoring all that picked-over fifties and sixties stuff.

As far as records go, just about any major-label 78 of the thirties or forties is worth about what they cost over the counter at the record store when they were first issued. A box full of Bing Crosby Deccas, Benny Goodman Victors or Glenn Miller Bluebirds has, basically, no "collector" value. The only real value they have is the purpose for which they were originally made -- for listening. Which is fine by me, the fewer sweaty-handed "record collectors" out there pawing around the more records there are for those of us who actually enjoy the music.

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LizzieMaine said:

...As far as records go, just about any major-label 78 of the thirties or forties is worth about what they cost over the counter at the record store when they were first issued. A box full of Bing Crosby Deccas, Benny Goodman Victors or Glenn Miller Bluebirds has, basically, no "collector" value. The only real value they have is the purpose for which they were originally made -- for listening. Which is fine by me, the fewer sweaty-handed "record collectors" out there pawing around the more records there are for those of us who actually enjoy the music.

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There is a somewhat similar phenomenon in book collecting. My girlfriend and I don't collect books to get the rare this or that or to "build a collection," we collect them because we love reading, we love the connect to history that old books give you and we love having them around the house to look at and read. But because we have limited funds, we don't buy any of the rare this or that - the first editions, the signed, the whatever - we buy the second printing or second edition, etc. or the book missing the dust jacket, etc.

Once you go away from the pristine first editions - which go for hundreds to thousands of dollars - there is an incredible selection of old books, in great shape that can be had for a few dollars to, say, $50. That's what makes up our collections and we couldn't care less if they go up or down in value (most couldn't go down far since they never went up). We just love reading them, seeing them and looking for them. Nothing would depress me more than if they became valuable because that would mean we could no longer go into old book shops and pick up a bunch of books for a song.

It sounds as if the old 78s are like the non-first edition books - affordable for those who want to enjoy them as they were intended.

Fading Fast I must say I completely agree with you .
I bought a huge and I mean huge collection of World Britannica starting in the 1980's up thru 1996 when they stopped printing them ( right around the say time the internet was really taking off ) for $40.00.

I got a rag some furniture polish ,cleaned them all up and they are in my man cave /study .
I enjoy just pulling one of them off the shelf and browsing thru them plus they look so cool on the shelf's .

Now granted I could just as easily googled what I was looking at ,but to have the book in your hands instead of a kindle to me is way more satisfying .
I also have in my basement ( I know not the greatest place to store books but it about space) shelf after shelf of books and about 90% of them I've already read but I love having them around.

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

Fading Fast said:

Once you go away from the pristine first editions - which go for hundreds to thousands of dollars - there is an incredible selection of old books, in great shape that can be had for a few dollars to, say, $50. That's what makes up our collections and we couldn't care less if they go up or down in value (most couldn't go down far since they never went up). We just lover reading them, seeing them and looking for them. Nothing would depress me more than if they became valuable because that would mean we could no longer go into old book shops and pick up a bunch of books for a song.

It sounds as if the old 78s are like the non-first edition books - affordable for those who want to enjoy them as they were intended.

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Most of my library is made up of prewar books -- I decided long ago that there was so much worth reading from the Era that I couldn't live long enough to read it all. Even first editions in jackets are cheap once you get away from the cult authors or famous titles.

I get a lot of books from the city dump. Some elderly person dies, the money-grubbing heirs throw away everything they can't immediately sell, and I take home what I can use. Net cost to me -- bupkis.

Fading Fast said:

There is a somewhat similar phenomenon in book collecting. My girlfriend and I don't collect books to get the rare this or that or to "build a collection," we collect them because we love reading, we love the connect to history that old books give you and we love having them around the house to look at read. But because we have limited funds, we don't buy any of the rare this or that - the first editions, the signed, the whatever - we buy the second printing or second edition, etc. or the book missing the dust jacket, etc.

Once you go away from the pristine first editions - which go for hundreds to thousands of dollars - there is an incredible selection of old books, in great shape that can be had for a few dollars to, say, $50. That's what makes up our collections and we couldn't care less if they go up or down in value (most couldn't go down far since they never went up). We just lover reading them, seeing them and looking for them. Nothing would depress me more than if they became valuable because that would mean we could no longer go into old book shops and pick up a bunch of books for a song.

It sounds as if the old 78s are like the non-first edition books - affordable for those who want to enjoy them as they were intended.

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I read and sell mainly nonfiction and have found that book prices for nonfiction have really gotten insane. It's increasingly hard to find certain subjects that are either cheap enough for me to turn around or that I'm willing to pay for a "keeper." Many books that I used to readily pick up for a buck or two 10-15 years ago are now at least $50 with $200-300 becoming the norm and even as a bookseller I don't consider them worth anywhere near as much. Not too long ago I was shocked to find a book on the USS Arizona that a fellow bookseller friend (now deceased) had a source for and used to sell at air shows and gun shows for $25 back in the day was $180 on Amazon!