Open Road questions ??

gtdean48 · Jul 27, 2013

Almost forgot... as far as stretching goes, 7 3/8 to 7 5/8 is 2 sizes = 7 3/8, 7 1/2, 7 5/8. Not sure what 1/2 a size is...
I have 3 7 1/2 Long Ovals that I have trained to be 7 5/8. I'd not attempt to do that with a 7 3/8. That would go off to a hatter to be torn down, reblocked & rebuilt.

enrique · Jul 29, 2013

By stretching a size and a half I meant taking it from a 7 3/8 to somewhere between a 7 1/2 and 7 5/8, but that idea might just show how much i do not know about stretching a hat.

gtdean48 · Jul 29, 2013

enrique said:
By stretching a size and a half I meant taking it from a 7 3/8 to somewhere between a 7 1/2 and 7 5/8, but that idea might just show how much i do not know about stretching a hat.

Gotcha...Lots of subject matter on stretching but when I have to go over a size increment, I'm sending to a hatter for reblocking. Stretching depends highly on the condition of the sweatband you are working with IMO. I say "train" it to a larger size because it is an ongoing process in my experience but worth it.

TheDane · Jul 29, 2013

Stan said:
However, the Stetson Stratoliner is pretty much the same as an Open Road styled as a fedora winds up being, so perhaps it's a simple case of Stetson not wanting to compete with itself at the time.....

Well, not quite, I guess. As have been told, the Stratoliner was ment as a more city'ish and casual version of the OR. Actually it was finished on a more curved flange, giving it a bit more snap than the OR. That brim-style was seemingly considered more casual in the day(?)

@Irish4: In my opinion you should look for a 7 5/8. Don't worry if it seems a little on the large side. Hats tend to shrink to fit the head inside them, so if you're inbetween sizes, my advice would be to go high.

You can stretch a hat with a standard hat stretcher. The stretcher doesn't stretch the entire crown, so if you stretch more than half a size or so (ie. correcting a little shrinking), you will very easily end up with an unwanted crease/ridge in the crown at the stretcher's upper edge. Loungers have stretched a hat a size or even more successfully, and so have I. But loungers have probably ruined more hats by trying. I have - and I have stopped

Another approach is using a full-crown stretcher, but it most likely doesn't fit the silhouette of the hat in question. If so you'll end up with a 'wrong' shape of the crown. The full-crown stretcher may also leave you with a ridge at the upper edge of the sweat band. Also a reblocking on a real block with the sweat in place will often leave you with an unwanted ridge from the leather.

As gtdean48 writes: A professionally executed reblock on a completely dismantled hat is by far the second best solution. The best is still to find the right size for your head

TheDane · Jul 29, 2013

PS: Shaping wise, you'll get nowhere with a new OR without steam. Don't steam too much at a time, as that could make the crown shrink - and never steam the sweat band!

Steam a little and massage the felt into shape as long as it's malleable. Keep repeating the process, till you get the wanted result. Often it's a good strategy to get it into an open crown before recreasing it.

You can use a soup ladle inside the crown, while rolling/massaging the outside of the steamed felt with a drinking glass to get rid of the cattleman's creases and open up the crown. After a cooldown/rest you steam a little again and start working on the wanted crease ... steam - crease ... stem - crease ... and so on. Again: Don't over-steam the felt.

Get a cheap hat and try out different approaches/techniques. You can learn a lot from fora and books, but your brains can't redo a hat. Your hands will have to learn it too

hatflick1 · Jul 28, 2015

Vintage Open Road

What was the crown height and brim width of an
Open Road back, say, in the fifties? Was it a 5"
crown and 2 3/4" brim?
Many thanks!

moontheloon · Jul 28, 2015

Vintage Open Road

50s OR 25

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rogera · Jul 28, 2015

Yep, what moon said! I think 5.5" open crown and 2.75" brim was pretty standard for the run of the mill Open Road.

gtdean48 · Jul 28, 2015

Have owned vintage OR's with brim widths from 2" to 3"...

JoeyC · Jul 28, 2015

gtdean48 said:
Have owned vintage OR's with brim widths from 2" to 3"...

Same here.

LuvMyMan · Jul 28, 2015

I think with any Open Road, or any other hat made, some of the sizes of the crown and brim have many factors that can account for the variety of the brim and crown dimensions. There could have been a standard, however, maybe the felts used that were in stock, or orders for one set of sizes over another played a role in the end results. But one thing for sure, you can find the same model hat with a variety of dimensions. The same holds true for almost any hat made. We've had Stratoliners with 2 1/2 inch brims, 2 3/4 inch brims and one that was 2 5/8 inch brim. Recently there was a Stratoliner on the market eBay listing that had a 2 1/4 inch brim. The same seems to happen with crown height as well.

moontheloon · Jul 28, 2015

LuvMyMan said:
I think with any Open Road, or any other hat made, some of the sizes of the crown and brim have many factors that can account for the variety of the brim and crown dimensions. There could have been a standard, however, maybe the felts used that were in stock, or orders for one set of sizes over another played a role in the end results. But one thing for sure, you can find the same model hat with a variety of dimensions. The same holds true for almost any hat made. We've had Stratoliners with 2 1/2 inch brims, 2 3/4 inch brims and one that was 2 5/8 inch brim. Recently there was a Stratoliner on the market eBay listing that had a 2 1/4 inch brim. The same seems to happen with crown height as well.

yeah ... I have 9 Strats and most of them have different dimensions

most of the 40's Strats I have do not share similar dimensions ... and the 50's Strats I have seem to be a bit more consistent in dimensions ... of course 9 hats is a small sample size but it is pretty much all I have to go on side by side at the moment

I also have 4 Open Roads ... all of which have the same dimensions aside from the late 50s model that is a bit more stiff and feels more like a western hat

like anything else that is hand made we will always see variations ... kind of the beauty of it all

tommyK · Jul 28, 2015

My older 3X Open Road (which I got from gtdean48) is 3 inch brim and 5 5/8 open crown

My mid to late 50's is the more typical 2 3/4 brim and 5 1/2 open crown

moontheloon · Jul 28, 2015

tommyK said:
My older 3X Open Road (which I got from gtdean48) is 3 inch brim and 5 5/8 open crown
View attachment 33056 View attachment 33057
My mid to late 50's is the more typical 2 3/4 brim and 5 1/2 open crown

hm.... my two 40s Open Roads have the exact measurements of my 50s twenty five above [huh]

tommyK · Jul 28, 2015

Moon, are you sure they are from the 40's? I believe the Open Road, in it's more modern form came out around '48

hatflick1 · Jul 28, 2015

The reason I asked in the first place is because I have
to cowboy-worn Open Roads from New Mexico, each I
would say from at least the 60's, and each has a 2.5"
brim and a 5" open crown.
Then I picked up a dead ringer for an Open Road
recently up in Ventura for 60-bucks. It is in
beautiful shape and really does look identical
to an OP, yet the only labels around the band
read: Libertyville Saddle Shop, Illinois. The
brim is 2.75", the crown height 5".

moontheloon · Jul 28, 2015

tommyK said:
Moon, are you sure they are from the 40's? I believe the Open Road, in it's more modern form came out around '48

I'm only basing that on the inner tags, the thin wide sweats, and the stars instead of the leaf in the crest ... I of course could be wrong ... it's known to happen

tommyK · Jul 28, 2015

Those are good indicators although the stars hang in there til '51 or '52 and beyond. I've got a factory store hat (date on the sweat) that's from '58 with the stars logo...I'm wrong often enough myself and we are talking Stetson. Not always the most consistant.

moontheloon · Jul 28, 2015

tommyK said:
Those are good indicators although the stars hang in there til '51 or '52 and beyond. I've got a factory store hat (date on the sweat) that's from '58 with the stars logo...I'm wrong often enough myself and we are talking Stetson. Not always the most consistant.

you are much better versed in this area than I ... from here on out I'll consider those hats 50s

a lot of this stuff confuses the hell out of me and probably always will ... I have a beautiful Strat with a sticker under the sweat that says Feb. something 1959 ( can't remember the exact date off hand) ... I often thought the felt was very comparable to my 40s strats and seemed weird that it was late 50s .. ... then I find out from the seller that the sticker is dated from a cleaning in '59 and the hat is actually from '53 or earlier

I give up

alanfgag · Jul 28, 2015

tommyK said:
Moon, are you sure they are from the 40's? I believe the Open Road, in it's more modern form came out around '48

When I try to remember how long ago something happened, I take my estimate and multiply by 1.7. When guessing the age of a vintage hat, I use the same formula but change the multiplication factor to .7.

hope that helps!

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