Era Immersion Living

Apparently, the only good radicals are the very old or long-dead ones, especially if they listened to Artie Shaw.

tonyb said:

I find far too many "radical" types these days downright oblivious to just how courageous the labor/civil rights/gay rights/etc. organizers and activists of generations past truly were. It's no exaggeration to note that openly advocating for such things could get a person killed. It often cost people their jobs, their housing, their social standing. It was in no way a fashion statement, as so much "activism" is these days.

Click to expand...

Bingo. Remove the rafter from your own generation's eye so you may see clearly to remove the speck from that of your grandparents.

Gingerella72 said:

Watch any commercial today for smart phones/tablets/watches and you'll see lots of people. People flocking around a phone to look at photos, laughing, having a bonding experience together....it's almost like the companies are trying to show how this technology brings people together instead of promoting isolation. And I think for the most part that is true (if not as bright and shiny-happy as the commercials).

Click to expand...

I have watched my nephews and their friends text each other while sitting in the same room. My nephews are a true raised-with-computers / wireless-world generation. They have been using them since grammar school and the youngest one before that. The oldest one is just out of college, the middle one is in college and the youngest will be a senior in high school.

They all have a lot of friends - tons of friends - they hang out with, do things with and seem all around social kids - and they are on their phones texting all the time. While far from scientific, it is this that makes me feel good about my core thought that, regardless of technology, humans want to interact with other humans. That's why I don't worry that all this technology is meaningfully reducing personal interaction and socializing. Is how it happens changing - sure, when hasn't it been changing? My parents socialized one way and in my pre-wireless youth I socialized in a very different way than they did.

Also, it might reduce the overall amount of socializing, but so what - who's to say that the pre-wire age had the "right" amount of it. I'm not a big social person and, with technology allowing me to stay in touch virtually, I do less of it - but again, so what? I'm far from a hermit, but have been able to better delimit the amount of socializing I do.

And my girlfriend and I both are able to better keep in touch with relatives. Instead of an occasional and expensive call (when we'd call my grandmother once a week and time the call when I was growing up), we email, text, send pictures and call them regularly. We have much more communication with girlfriend's parents and my mom - both who live far away - now than we did ten and fifteen years ago all because of the advances in technology.

My summary, IMHO - humans want interaction with other humans and will harness new technology to do that in a way of their choosing, but in the end, humans are social animals and will always want to socialize. One last thought. I've read that young people don't date so much as go out in groups and hook up - I have no idea how true this is. And the follow on thought is that marriage will go down as this will obviate one-on-one relationships. Humans want to pair up as they get older - not all but most - so whatever they do in their youth won't matter - as kids get into their 20s and early 30s, I am comfortable they will look to pair up.

LizzieMaine said:

Bingo. Remove the rafter from your own generation's eye so you may see clearly to remove the speck from that of your grandparents.

Click to expand...

Plenty of rafters to go around in this group.

I don't doubt the sincerity of many young social activists these days, but I question if they appreciate the difference between their circumstances and those of their predecessors. Grandpa didn't have a cushion under his rump when he got knocked down. No college account, no savings, no health insurance. It's no exaggeration to say that he was putting his future on the line every time he stood up.

Attending a rally these days is mostly taking in the scenery. And that's true whatever the politics of the event. Waving a flag -- Rainbow, Gadsden, whatever -- isn't likely to result in your teeth being kicked in.

Depends on the neighborhood.

When I started this thread last week I hadn't read any of the criticisms of the couple....but holy vitriol, Batman! The nastiness that has been thrown at them is astounding. Of course, it's human nature to want to jump on the bandwagon (mob mentality) and sling insults and snark with everyone else, and I hope that is what is behind most of it and these people hiding behind their keyboards wouldn't actually say these things to their faces. I despair for humanity sometimes and agree with those who think most websites need to remove their comments sections (where mob mentality rules).

I don't understand people who say that because of (insert atrocity here), there is nothing redeemable about (insert era here). Yes bad things happened in the past. So did a lot of good things. What if it were a more recent era.....like the 1980's? What if I just really really loved the 80's and don't want to leave it, and only dressed like Jane Fonda from 9 to 5 while at work, and came home to dress like Madonna? What if I only listened to the Bangles and Flock of Seagulls and watched movies like The Breakfast Club and only used an Apple IIE computer and kept a land line? Would people say "nice try, but you're completely ignoring the Iran-Contra scandal and the atrocity of Reaganomics and the AIDS epidemic, what are you trying to prove by being a faux valley girl, you stupid idiot?" Or would they say "Yeah she's kinda weird, but whatever..."? I think it would be the latter. For some reason, the further one goes back in the decades, the more vitriol is spewed from others about how horrible it was, while completely ignoring the fact that their own decade isn't perfect either.

Look at all of the horrible things that are still happening TODAY! I am aware of these horrible things, but I don't let them rule my life because if I did I'd have to take myriad anti-depressants. Just because I'm not out protesting and being an activist, doesn't mean I don't care about these things. Just getting through my day-to-day life is hard enough sometimes without feeling obligated to take on the weight of the world. When life gets too depressing, I watch LOLcat videos and cuddle with my dog and cats while wearing comfy sweatpants, reclining on my modern sofa. IMO, there is no difference between how I deal with my 2015 life, and how the Chrismans use the Victorian lifestyle they have built for themselves to escape the cruelties of life.

My own husband is one of those people who says you can't cherry pick the past....I love learning about the 19th century and frontier expansion and my family's homesteading roots and Little House on the Prairie and all that, but I have to be careful about how much I share with my husband because the usual response from him will be "And how many of my people died for all this?" (he's of Santee Sioux descent). Trying to point out the good things that came from that century is like arguing with a brick wall. So I keep my conversations about the past, whether it's 19th century or 1940's or whatever period, confined to social media and message forums like this where I can talk to like-minded people about these things. So, yay for modern technology on that front - being able to connect to others all over the world at my fingertips to share in common passions.

tonyb said:

I don't doubt the sincerity of many young social activists these days, but I question if they appreciate the difference between their circumstances and those of their predecessors. Grandpa didn't have a cushion under his rump when he got knocked down. No college account, no savings, no health insurance. It's no exaggeration to say that he was putting his future on the line every time he stood up.

Attending a rally these days is mostly taking in the scenery. And that's true whatever the politics of the event. Waving a flag -- Rainbow, Gadsden, whatever -- isn't likely to result in your teeth being kicked in.

Click to expand...

Yep. The general textile strike of 1934, the Toledo Auto-Lite strike, the Flint sit-down, and the Little Steel Riots weren't "photo ops."



May 30, 1937. Ten unarmed steelworkers picketing at Republic Steel murdered in cold blood by the Chicago Police Department acting in collusion with Republic management. Thirty others injured, nine of them disabled for life. Newsreel images of the assault are suppressed by Paramount News.



October 16, 1945. Labor activist and Briggs Manufacturing Company employee Genora Dollinger is beaten nearly to death in her own bedroom by thugs wielding lead pipes and blackjacks -- thugs hired, as an investigation by the Kefauver Committee will later prove, by operatives of the Briggs Manufacturing Company. Dollinger suffers permanent nerve damage as a result of the assault.

Just a couple of examples, and there's plenty more. Not quite the same thing as camping out in a park or changing your Facebook profile picture to show that you're down with the struggle.

Your husband has a good point, Gingerella.

Let us remember also how much more hazardous the average person's daily existence was back then. Life was a constant reminder of its own impermanent nature.

Improving the human condition is our calling. Alas, we hold such divergent views on best routes to that end, and we sometimes hold those views so dearly, that we are blinded to the shortcomings of our perspectives.

LizzieMaine said:

If I remember that affair right, it was a Starfleet standard-duty uniform, which was clearly inappropriate. Dress uniform is specified for occasions of state.

Click to expand...

:rofl:

LizzieMaine said:

Yep. The general textile strike of 1934, the Toledo Auto-Lite strike, the Flint sit-down, and the Little Steel Riots weren't "photo ops."

View attachment 35552

May 30, 1937. Ten unarmed steelworkers picketing at Republic Steel murdered in cold blood by the Chicago Police Department acting in collusion with Republic management. Thirty others injured, nine of them disabled for life. Newsreel images of the assault are suppressed by Paramount News.

October 16, 1945. Labor activist and Briggs Manufacturing Company employee Genora Dollinger is beaten nearly to death in her own bedroom by thugs wielding lead pipes and blackjacks -- thugs hired, as an investigation by the Kefauver Committee will later prove, by operatives of the Briggs Manufacturing Company. Dollinger suffers permanent nerve damage as a result of the assault.

Just a couple of examples, and there's plenty more. Not quite the same thing as camping out in a park or changing your Facebook profile picture to show that you're down with the struggle.

Click to expand...

A lot of people today forget, that brave workers died to make our lives easier!

Stearmen said:

A lot of people today forget, that brave workers died to make our lives easier!

Click to expand...

And when they forget, it's that much easier to p*** away their legacy.

Meanwhile, getting back to the technology angle, I just overheard the following on the street:

Young woman and boyfriend looking into their phones and walking along the sidewalk suddenly breaking into a vocal argument: LISTEN I TOLD YOU -- I CAN'T WALK AND READ A TEXT MESSAGE AT THE SAME TIME!

LizzieMaine said:

Meanwhile, getting back to the technology angle, I just overheard the following on the street:

Young woman and boyfriend looking into their phones and walking along the sidewalk suddenly breaking into a vocal argument: LISTEN I TOLD YOU -- I CAN'T WALK AND READ A TEXT MESSAGE AT THE SAME TIME!

Click to expand...

Aperanntly, there are lots of people that can't do that! [video=youtube;bGpVpsaItpU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGpVpsaItpU[/video]