The other Jewish hat

Here's a nice example that shows not every Orthodox Jew wears an oversized fedora or a fur hat (the man in the middle is chief rabbi of Munich/Germany, where a new building was opened today - European papers are full of it):

When I was in Israel I saw a lot of guys wearing homburgs too. I must say the top hat is a new one though.

Jeremy
http://www.hats-plus.com

Black hat woth a crown to cover the head...

Why so boring... they need some color. I don't think they have any rules agains brown grey blue or tan fedoras... Though the croud mentality I think drives toward the black.

Are there any rules against color for this religious headwear?

Shaul-Ike Cohen said:

European papers are full of it

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So I've often heard.

The top hat is strictly cerimonial . Mayser made it for the rabbi . Black is the color that they all want for the last 15 years to show modesty. We used to sell hundres of blue, gray, brown and tan but those days are long gone .





Steven

Home of the black hat

Shaul-Ike Cohen said:

Here's a nice example that shows not every Orthodox Jew wears an oversized fedora or a fur hat (the man in the middle is chief rabbi of Munich/Germany, where a new building was opened today - European papers are full of it):

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It also looks like he may be wearing a tuxedo, from the bow tie and cufflinks. Even if not, it certainly seems a celebratory event!

Suzanne

Shaul-Ike Cohen said:

Here's a nice example that shows not every Orthodox Jew wears an oversized fedora or a fur hat (the man in the middle is chief rabbi of Munich/Germany, where a new building was opened today - European papers are full of it):

Click to expand...

***
I recall seeing a PBS documentary and in it they were showing a Jewish congregation in England with similar Top Hats. I think the leaders may have been wearing a version of the morning suit too. Anyway, my impression was the Service really seemed to be a true celebration. It was wonderful to see.

besdor said:

The top hat is strictly cerimonial . Mayser made it for the rabbi . Black is the color that they all want for the last 15 years to show modesty. We used to sell hundres of blue, gray, brown and tan but those days are long gone.

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Is there a requirement that the hat have an oversized crown and brim?

I often see yeshiva kids with hats that are the right head circumference but absurdly large for their face and frame. The other thing I noticed is the absurdity of the large black fedora with a puffy blue down wintercoat.

Is it possible in that circle to steer people towards hats that, while black, are appropriate to their size and to the rest of their clothing? Speaking about the kids, couldn’t they keep the black hat in school and wear something more appropriate with their down jacket (or else make them wear proper overcoats)? What would happen if you tried? Would they look at you like you were from Mars?

dopey said:

Is there a requirement that the hat have an oversized crown and brim? I often see yeshiva kids with hats that are the right head circumference but absurdly large for their face and frame. The other thing I noticed is the absurdity of the large black fedora with a puffy blue down wintercoat. Is it possible in that circle to steer people towards hats that, while black, are appropriate to their size and to the rest of their clothing? Speaking about the kids, couldn’t they keep the black hat in school and wear something more appropriate with their down jacket (or else make them wear proper overcoats)? What would happen if you tried? Would they look at you like you were from Mars?

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Tradition is a powerful agent shaping religious clothing styles.
It helps to identify fellow members of your group.
Most important is: what you see as ill fiting is viewed as reverence to God.

Black Hats

The "style"of the wide brim black hat started 15 years ago . Previously , what was worn in the Orthodox community ,was worn in the dress market . The Yeshiva boys wanted to look different than everyone elase. They gave up colored hats and straw hats . We used to sell thousands of Stetson hats with brims sizes between 2" and 2 1/2" . Today , the boys would look at it as if it were a joke . Within five years , the style had completely changed . The average brim size today for the religious market is a 3 1/2" brim . Because of that , all of the hats are imported from either Italy , Czeck Republic , Spain and Columbia . No one here can make these hats.
I could write a book about this .


Steven

John in Covina said:

Tradition is a powerful agent shaping religious clothing styles.

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True, but as Besdor notes, black-only hats, and particularly oversized brims and crowns are not a particularly deep-rooted tradition amongst Orthodox Jews.

It helps to identify fellow members of your group.

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I don’t know, but I suspect that or a close variant is 90% of the explanation for the rigidity of the style.

Most important is: what you see as ill fiting is viewed as reverence to God.

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I am not sure that is true as it is hard to see how wearing a particular shape and style of hat shows reverence to God but I have never interviewed any of the wearers on this specific point. I do know that it is considered something of a uniform and is a relatively recent one.

Self Edit: I did a quick web search, and while I doubt it is authoritative, here are some explanations (I included a similar question about skullcaps and an alternative view of the original answer):

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-1712/the-meaning-of-the-black-hats/?p=1712

The Meaning of the Black Hats
September 11, 2006

Q: What is the meaning behind the black hat? Why did people start wearing black hats?


A: Good question! In the fifties everyone wore hats; it was a standard mode of respectable dress. Starting with President Kennedy, hats went out of style. However, the communities associated with Yeshivos kept the hats to give their appearance a sense of dignity, just like businessmen who wear suits. Eventually, Yeshiva people were the only ones wearing black hats and so it became synonymous with the Yeshiva community. Those who wear black hats today do so as a way of identifying with that community.

Rabbi Meir Goldberg

1 Follow-up »

I was wondering what the meaning behind all the different types of kippot (skull-caps) are and why different type of people wear different type of kippot.


As with black hats, there is no intrinsic meaning. It became customary for whatever reason that certain groups wear certain kippot. Eventually people started to identify certain groups with their kippot.


Rabbi Meir Goldberg

http://judeopundit.blogspot.com/2006/09/jewishanswersorg-and-black-hats.html
Monday, September 11, 2006


JewishAnswers.org and Black Hats


The admirable "JewishAnswers.org" site has the following answer to a question about the significance of Black Hats:

“Good question! In the fifties everyone wore hats; . . . [Repeats answer from first quote above - dopey] . . . Those who wear black hats today do so as a way of identifying with that community.”

I think they should keep tinkering with this answer. For one thing, Chassidish Jews like me also wear black hats, not just Yeshivish folks. And why black? Why not grey hats or brown hats? And doesn't the sentence about how "communities associated with Yeshivos kept the hats" make it sound as if they all sat down one day and said "Hats are out of style--what do we do now?" I think the Frum [religious - dopey]world just didn't care that hats went out of style in the world at large. Also, in the Chassidish world at least, there is an emphasis on davening [praying - dopey] while wearing two head-coverings. (That was my Chassidish-Litvish solidarity-promotion moment of the day.)

besdor said:

. . . I could write a book about this.

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Please do. I find this fascinating. Particularly the semiotics of the different styles of wearing them. I would love to be able to decode the meaning of snap or flat brim, worn low on the forehead or pushed way back and tilted up, pinched or not pinched, etc.

It is an interesting topic. Even though the religious community all wears black hats , there are subtle differences in the styles from the various groups .
The most common is the black fedora or snap brim hat. This is worn in communitires from Crown Heights, Brooklyn to Israel . They are the most modern of the Orthodox Jews . Then there are the more Orthodox that wear the flat homburg which is made of a plush velour. These are seen throughout Brooklyn by the close knit Satmar Jews . When you come down to it , it all adds up to a LOT of black hats .


Steven

good book

I'dlike to see that book, too!

Steven,

I have often wondered if there are master hat makers
in Israel. Know of any? I have seen some nice straw
hats come from Israel.

and Dopey, nice to see you post on occasion.

I think this is why Steven Hill on Law and Order was never seen outside without his brim. But, he wore nice none religous hats. Stetson Temple, Irish Walking hat, and I also recall a khaki poplin safari esque hat with three air holes. (I wish I could remeber this well for school)

No black in summer

One orthodox Jewish gent in my building always wears a black felt fedora, except in summer, when he switches to a dark blue, very fine-weave panama. He looks quite debonair and I have to resist the temptation to ask him where he got it.

The blue hat is called Parabuntal straw . It is a very fine weave that we sell a lot of during the summer from Italy .
Look under the straw hat section on our site.You will see it there .



Steven

Besdor:
I should have been a little clearer. I am aware of the difference between the hats Chassidim wear and those the non-chassidic orthodox wear. What I was really interested in is some explanation of the social cues and meaning behind the different styles the non-chassidic orthodox wear. For example, I often see kids with the hat having a simple center dent, small or no pinches, the brim unsnapped and the whole think pushed back on their head and tilted up. To me, this looks positively goofy but I wonder if the wearer uses it to signify something to his peers. I have no idea if there is anything to this theory, but it seems that the different looks must carry some meaning within the group. Once in a while, I see a black fedora that looks like it is proportioned to fit the kid’s face and I wonder if that makes him a rebel or the Yeshiva equivalent of a hipster. Does more brim mean more religious? I remember being in high school where every bit of dress had some meaning or other within a peer group. There must be some inside meanings to the different ways the orthodox wear their black hats - I just can’t figure it out.

Feltfan: Thanks for the hello.

besdor said:

The most common is the black fedora or snap brim hat. This is worn in communitires from Crown Heights, Brooklyn to Israel . They are the most modern of the Orthodox Jews .

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«coughcough»
The "most modern of the Orthodox Jews" are the ones who see no religious significance in wearing black fedoras or any other particular kind of hat, as long as they're covering their heads with some form of yarmulka, cap or hat.