The Young Fogey Phenomenon

Ticklishchap · Jan 14, 2016

How many of you remember, or were influenced by, the Young Fogey phenomenon or its American counterpart? I was having a nostalgic conversation about this with an old friend over the Christmas period. At university in the mid-80s, I was a fully paid-up Young Fogey. It was an informal cultural movement among a segment of young men at that time, which chimed with the tastes I had already formed in my teens because it favoured traditional clothing, the elegant but lived-in look and the use of country clothing even in town. Therefore I and a circle of friends wore old tweed jackets and corduroy trousers, military or other wool sweaters, brogues, braces, waxed Barbour jackets, Duffel coats – which we used to Anglicise to Duffle for some reason. My tastes have changed little since then in fact! I rode an old bike with a basket attached to the handlebars. The YF phenomenon extended to language: we listened to the wireless rather than the radio, addressed our male friends as ‘old chap’ and would ‘take tea’ rather than ‘have tea’. There was a conservative aspect to Young Fogeydom which I didn’t particularly identify with (I liked abstract art and was politically liberal), but the conserving side of it was positive, favouring natural materials, local craftsmanship rather than mass production – anticipating many environmentalist themes.

There was a Young Fogey handbook, but none of us read it at the time because we knew what to wear and buy and how to conduct ourselves. But as I mentioned on another thread, re. the Guernsey sweater, I was given a copy as a present some years later.

GHT · Jan 14, 2016

Young fogey eh? At the age of 22, in 1968, I was called an old fart! That was probably because after my teenage years of going with the herd, this was the sixties remember, pop music explosion, Carnaby Street, here today, gone tomorrow, whimsical fashions, drug culture, (managed to avoid that,) The Mini, car and ladies hemlines, and, and, and, both my new wife and I just let it go. That I don't like corduroy, woollen sweaters with elbow patches and barbour jackets is no reflection on your choice. But not to like everything 60's was absolute heresy among my peers. Young fogeys and old farts accept that choice of style statement differs from person to person, they accept too that musical tastes vary, as does the mode of transport, which is why I love, and have always loved, the suits, accoutrements and accessories of a time when personal appearance was important.
For what it's worth, that which you articulate so eloquently, I have always valued, still do. But I'm still wondering whether, old fart is more of an insult than young fogey.

Ticklishchap · Jan 14, 2016

Good morning Sir
I begin deferentially because you are twenty years older than me: I was two in 1968!
Young Fogey wasn't an 'insult' as such. Among my group of friends we used it humorously and affectionately. My tutor once called me a Young Fogey with a hint of criticism because I was wearing an Army sweater and had a copy of the Telegraph. I explained to him that I read it not for its politics but it's old-fashioned layout (in those days) and sheer volume of news (again in those days).
I also appreciate traditional suits and belonged to a St James's club for many years- it's now no longer useful for my work. However the 'rus in urbe' look has always suited me more (no pun intended).
As for old fart, I would have seen achieving that status at 22 to be a great achievement and high compliment.

Lean'n'mean · Jan 14, 2016

I can clearly remember Yuppies & Sloane Rangers but Young Fogeyism is much more hazy. I seem to recall certain student chappies, who smoked pipes,wore corduroys & enjoyed sitting around discussing things that deeply interested them but no one else & who weren't interested in sex.......they were considered as a sort of loser's club by other students. I'm not sure if they were Young Fogeys though..

However I think I have reached the status that my 20 year old self would have called an Old Fogey. I'm not quite an Old Fart yet, but I'm getting there.

GHT · Jan 14, 2016

Sir eh? I'm impressed, as a rule the only time I'm addressed as Sir these days is if someone is expecting a tip, or, if I've complained about poor service or a malfunctioning purchase.

You might be surprised to learn that as you graduate from young fogey to old fart, interest in your lifestyle never wanes. About eight years or so ago, my wife's father sadly passed away. To help her through her bereavement I took her to Scotland, a country that she so loves, for a week's break. At the end of the week, in an effort to ease her gently back into the busy, busy of everyday life, I spent an hour or so looking for somewhere entertaining to take her to. By good luck I managed to get a couple of tickets to a show in Glasgow. It was a sell out, but as I said, good fortune smiled as I picked up a cancellation of a pair of tickets.

The show fell on July 4th, and as such, it was themed on America. What a fabulous time we had, what a great show it was. I won't go into the details because that's not the point. It was our attire, that and the fact that we can dance. If you follow the edict that older people, say 55 or over, shouldn't go out, shouldn't party until the early hours, should sit at home, maybe babysit their grandchildren, then you will be of a mindset to comprehend that, of another, who was at the show, blown away by two old people, (his words,) dressing in vintage attire and dancing the night away.

Read his blog here, untouched and unabridged. By the way I agree that, young fogey, old fart and other descriptions, are what one might call: Complimentary insults.

Ticklishchap · Jan 14, 2016

Thank you for a beautiful story, Sir, and I like the concept of Complimentary Insults. I also find something curiously satisfying about the idea of graduation from Young Fogey to Old Fart

Anthony Jordan · Jan 14, 2016

Young fogeydom was still prevalent at Durham University in the late 1990s.

Zombie_61 · Jan 16, 2016

Ticklishchap said:
...I also find something curiously satisfying about the idea of graduation from Young Fogey to Old Fart

That's not much of a graduation. It's long and gradual and, if you're doing it right, the only real difference is that you'll occasionally look in the mirror and wonder, "Who is that poor old man?"

By the way, I prefer the term "curmudgeon".

Edward · Jan 16, 2016

Young Fogeys neverxmade it to Belfast. A rather unpleasant form thereof does, however, keep trying to colonise the Chap scene. Some of then even have the audacity to think they are Chaps.

ChiTownScion · Jan 18, 2016

Never heard of a Young Fogey... but I do recall referring to a former roommate as "a thirty year old geriatric."

GHT · Jan 18, 2016

ChiTownScion said:
Never heard of a Young Fogey... but I do recall referring to a former roommate as "a thirty year old geriatric."

Allow me to enlighten you:

vintage.vendeuse · Jan 18, 2016

Lean'n'mean said:
I seem to recall certain student chappies, who smoked pipes,wore corduroys & enjoyed sitting around discussing things that deeply interested them....they were considered as a sort of loser's club by other students.

That's just the sort of guy I would have been interested in when I was at university in the early 1980s. Unfortunately, I don't recall seeing any of this type at my American university.

HudsonHawk · Jan 18, 2016

GHT said:
Allow me to enlighten you:
View attachment 42388

Wow. There's so much wrong with this picture I don't even know where to start.

GHT · Jan 18, 2016

HudsonHawk said:
Wow. There's so much wrong with this picture I don't even know where to start.

Oh dear, I do hope that you haven't damaged your eyes.

LizzieMaine · Jan 18, 2016

The guy in the shorts reminds me of a follower of Sir Roderick Spode -- except his shorts are the wrong color.

HudsonHawk · Jan 18, 2016

LizzieMaine said:
The guy in the shorts reminds me of a follower of Sir Roderick Spode -- except his shorts are the wrong color.

I was thinking more like Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys.

Edward · Jan 18, 2016

LizzieMaine said:
The guy in the shorts reminds me of a follower of Sir Roderick Spode -- except his shorts are the wrong color.

The Young Fogies of today would similarly remind you of Roderick Spode, for rather more than their choice of short trousers.

Benproof · Jan 18, 2016

Aren't they called 'hipsters' nowadays?

The more digital and abstract things get, the greater the retro movement. I suppose most of us like bits of the previous eras here and there, rather than trying to accurately create a specific look from an era. I guess if we do, then the risk of wearing a costume, or dressing up outlandishly gets harder.

Agreed about the pictures. Manspreading is the same no matter how many gadgets you carry.

Anthony Jordan · Jan 18, 2016

My Young Fogey heyday

swinglish · Jan 18, 2016

Anthony Jordan said:
My Young Fogey heyday

Over here in Uppsala, Sweden, you will regularly see young men in their early twenties walking around like this. It's a big university town with a lot of separate student union organisations - or 'nations' as they're known - and they do love dressing up for balls and dinners which happen on an almost weekly basis. Quite fun, actually!

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