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Alive'n'Amplified

Alive'n'Amplified

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,032
Location
Atlanta, GA
M Hatman

M Hatman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,364
Location
Broken Illinois, where we even tax you on the tax!
Frunobulax said:
There are copious discussions on the Stratoliner pins. What else did you have in mind?
Click to expand...
Well, all the other pins Stetson put out....the brand pins, the script pins, the metal logo pins, ect. I have an old color pin dated 1896....but they could have used that for a LONG time. Also when did they start using pins? What kinds of pins came with the hats from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's? The Strat pins were only on that line of hats....what came on the Whippets and Playboys?
As you can see there is a LOT to cover. I thought someone around here may even collect just the hat pins......
Cheers,
M
Here is another picture of the 1896 pin. I would love to know what hats it came on and how long it was used.....
Stetson Pin.jpg
 
EstherWeis

EstherWeis

Vendor
Messages
2,615
Location
Antwerp
blueAZNmonkey said:
Question (but first the dilemma):

I've figured out the right nuances to successfully bind the brim edges on my project hats (yay!)
I've also figured out a great process for kettle-curling without the use of those 200.00 shackles (yay!)

What I haven't quite figured out is how to do both of those steps together. On one of my project pieces, I ironed the brim flat and did a whippet-esque binding. Then i tried to curl the brim and the ribbon (although it possessed a heavy cotton content) scorched and puckered =(

I ended up removing all the stitching of the edge ribbon, re-pouncing the curl, and began hand-stitching a new binding because the machine can't manage the odd angle of the curl.

All that to say: Do the curling shackles correct this issue? I ask because I want to be able to machine stitch the edge binding (looks much better than when I use the awl) and the only way for me to do that without spending bookoo on a much better sewing machine is to stitch first, curl second.

My hope is that the curling shackles can correct the issue because even though the shackles are pricey, they're much cheaper than the kind of machine I'd need for sewing after curling...

Any firsthand anecdotes would be much appreciated!
Click to expand...

You can't bind first and then curl. The circumference of the edge of the curl is smaller at the edge of the curl since you shrink the felt as you curl. This means that your ribbon for the binding will be shorter. You well get a bubbly and not so neat looking binding if you do it before.

The ridge you had is very hard to get out. Steam and brush and some sanding might work. Yet you don't want to be too rough with the steaming since you don't want to lose the curl.
Machine stitching is very hard. They have special machines for that. I would opt to go by hand.

As for your other question. Your felt is the smooth finish correct? Not velour? ( doesn't look that way in the pic) You can sand them down. Use a bit more stiffener to firm them up.
Another trick is in the blocking. Really smooth them out evenly and tightly.
But, They make thinner felts too. You could ask if he can order them. If they are TONAK they are available.
 
blueAZNmonkey

blueAZNmonkey

One Too Many
Messages
1,446
Location
San Diego, CA
EstherWeis said:
You can't bind first and then curl...I would opt to go by hand.
Click to expand...

Thanks Esther -- you're totally right. On a bound kettle curl, I'll need to stitch by hand after curling. As you noted, I had to carefully remove the failed binding and re-pounce/stiffen the edge felt. Just from my own experience, I figured I would have to settle for stitching by hand post curl from now on. But that's okay -- it's a pretty soothing exercise when accompanied by a full snifter of Jameson whiskey and "The Big Lebowski" playing in the background. For a 2.25" brim, it takes me about one and a half hours to hand sew the binding, which is better than suffering a rippled and scorched edge treatment =P

As for the felt -- the photos in the WHAYWT thread make the hat look like it's velour but it actually isn't! The ambient lighting just gave the felt a really interesting texture. The sanding process went without a hitch. I'll ask my supplier if he has the ability to source thinner caps... If he can't, I'll just keep sanding a bevel into the brim edge for now.

You rock!
 
Frunobulax

Frunobulax

Messages
19,124
Location
Funkytown, USA
M Hatman said:
Well, all the other pins Stetson put out....the brand pins, the script pins, the metal logo pins, ect. I have an old color pin dated 1896....but they could have used that for a LONG time. Also when did they start using pins? What kinds of pins came with the hats from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's? The Strat pins were only on that line of hats....what came on the Whippets and Playboys?
As you can see there is a LOT to cover. I thought someone around here may even collect just the hat pins......
Cheers,
M
Here is another picture of the 1896 pin. I would love to know what hats it came on and how long it was used.....
View attachment 69811
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, Whippets and Playboys never came with pins. I've seen westerns with JBS pins, and new stetsons come with a medallion. I've seen a few others which say Stetson on them for sale on eBay, but their design to me suggest 60s. Others you would have to provide examples of as what a brand or script pin is unclear to me.

Your 1896 pin is nice, but I think the date reference is likely to a trademark copyright, not necessarily the actual age of the pin.

Correlation of the pins with the logos can help to date them.

It does sound like an interesting exercise. We have a pin thread, but it's dedicated to different adornments folks put on their hats, not what you're wanting to cover. I'd suggest digging up examples of them as illustrations and perhaps it might be enough for a new thread.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.
 
M Hatman

M Hatman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,364
Location
Broken Illinois, where we even tax you on the tax!
Pins have been used on hats to advertise brands and names for some time. I was just wanting more information as I do run across them from time to time and have found them interesting. I do have several across different manufacturers, most post 1960 or so. The "brand" I refer to is the JBS Branding Iron pin that comes on some different Stetson hats since at least the 1960's. (As and aside, I even have a "key" pin that came with my Stetson "Key Club". I have seen the rifle pins that came with the Stetson "Gun Club" and a fishing rod that came with the "Rod & Reel" by I think Marathon?) As to my 1896 pin, my political pin collector friends have indicated it is very much of that time. My own experience tells me this was probably used up to the 20's.
Any way I though someone around here may know more or be a collector and YES this could be a good thread! But, it should be started with someone who has much more knowledge than me.
Cheers,
M
 
Frunobulax

Frunobulax

Messages
19,124
Location
Funkytown, USA
M Hatman said:
Pins have been used on hats to advertise brands and names for some time. I was just wanting more information as I do run across them from time to time and have found them interesting. I do have several across different manufacturers, most post 1960 or so. The "brand" I refer to is the JBS Branding Iron pin that comes on some different Stetson hats since at least the 1960's. (As and aside, I even have a "key" pin that came with my Stetson "Key Club". I have seen the rifle pins that came with the Stetson "Gun Club" and a fishing rod that came with the "Rod & Reel" by I think Marathon?) As to my 1896 pin, my political pin collector friends have indicated it is very much of that time. My own experience tells me this was probably used up to the 20's.
Any way I though someone around here may know more or be a collector and YES this could be a good thread! But, it should be started with someone who has much more knowledge than me.
Cheers,
M
Click to expand...

There is a thread called "Stetson Stuff" that may have some things of interest to you, as well.

On phone so no linky.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.
 
Redfokker

Redfokker

Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
M Hatman said:
Well, all the other pins Stetson put out....the brand pins, the script pins, the metal logo pins, ect. I have an old color pin dated 1896....but they could have used that for a LONG time. Also when did they start using pins? What kinds of pins came with the hats from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's? The Strat pins were only on that line of hats....what came on the Whippets and Playboys?
As you can see there is a LOT to cover. I thought someone around here may even collect just the hat pins......
Cheers,
M
Here is another picture of the 1896 pin. I would love to know what hats it came on and how long it was used.....
View attachment 69811
Click to expand...
I know that I want one. Following intently, I'm a hat pin person.
 
Fed in a Fedora

Fed in a Fedora

Practically Family
Messages
739
Location
Dixie, USA
From my reading of the descriptions, the Broad Beach is a cheaper plastic hat. I have been looking at the Range which is a Hemp hat. Seems like a better idea for hot weather.
 
Frunobulax

Frunobulax

Messages
19,124
Location
Funkytown, USA
M Hatman said:
Pins have been used on hats to advertise brands and names for some time. I was just wanting more information as I do run across them from time to time and have found them interesting. I do have several across different manufacturers, most post 1960 or so. The "brand" I refer to is the JBS Branding Iron pin that comes on some different Stetson hats since at least the 1960's. (As and aside, I even have a "key" pin that came with my Stetson "Key Club". I have seen the rifle pins that came with the Stetson "Gun Club" and a fishing rod that came with the "Rod & Reel" by I think Marathon?) As to my 1896 pin, my political pin collector friends have indicated it is very much of that time. My own experience tells me this was probably used up to the 20's.
Any way I though someone around here may know more or be a collector and YES this could be a good thread! But, it should be started with someone who has much more knowledge than me.
Cheers,
M
Click to expand...
@M Hatman - darn you! Darn you all to heck! Now I've spent this morning looking over the "Stetson Stuff" and "Stetson Crest Dating" threads, killing my productivity! You and your #$&!!@ pin.

The Stetson Stuff thread doesn't have any hat pins in it, although Stetson specific pins would seem to fit there. There are several Hat Pin, etc. threads, however. I don't know what would be more appropriate, but obviously, I've found this discussion compelling. :) Perhaps others will, as well. You should post some pics of the other pins you are referring to and maybe get something started!

A couple notes on your pin (and the one currently on eBay). The patent referred to on the back is the patent for the pin design from Whitehead and Hoag Co., according to this website (see about 2/3 down the page). So it doesn't offer a specific clue on your pin; however, your political pin collector offers good advice, I'm sure.

The crest dating thread also brought up these two images, which I think may be relevant.

1876 Crests
stetson_1876_crestsk.jpg


1894 Trademarks
stetson_trademarks_dec_1894.jpg


Neither of these show the exact logo (beaver & griffin) on the pin in question. Which proves...very little, actually. But it is a starting off point. We know that the pin logo was used until the middle of last century, when it was replaced by the one with the leaf. I do not know, however, when that logo was introduced. Pretty sure late 1800s, early 1900s, though.

This site, I tells ya, it'll eat you alive...
 
Redfokker

Redfokker

Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
Frunobulax said:
@M Hatman - darn you! Darn you all to heck! Now I've spent this morning looking over the "Stetson Stuff" and "Stetson Crest Dating" threads, killing my productivity! You and your #$&!!@ pin.

The Stetson Stuff thread doesn't have any hat pins in it, although Stetson specific pins would seem to fit there. There are several Hat Pin, etc. threads, however. I don't know what would be more appropriate, but obviously, I've found this discussion compelling. :) Perhaps others will, as well. You should post some pics of the other pins you are referring to and maybe get something started!

A couple notes on your pin (and the one currently on eBay). The patent referred to on the back is the patent for the pin design from Whitehead and Hoag Co., according to this website (see about 2/3 down the page). So it doesn't offer a specific clue on your pin; however, your political pin collector offers good advice, I'm sure.

The crest dating thread also brought up these two images, which I think may be relevant.

1876 Crests
View attachment 69835

1894 Trademarks
View attachment 69836

Neither of these show the exact logo (beaver & griffin) on the pin in question. Which proves...very little, actually. But it is a starting off point. We know that the pin logo was used until the middle of last century, when it was replaced by the one with the leaf. I do not know, however, when that logo was introduced. Pretty sure late 1800s, early 1900s, though.

This site, I tells ya, it'll eat you alive...
Click to expand...
+1 True Dat....time leach
 
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