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Terms Which Have Disappeared

Fading Fast

Fading Fast

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New York City
LizzieMaine said:
The interesting thing to me is that the Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic, which *did* last for years and years was still ready for the scrappers by the mid-1930s. I wouldn't think a lifespan of twenty-odd years for such a phantasmagorica of a ship would be particularly reasonable or cost-effective even in the best of cases.
Click to expand...

So many things impact that decision, but in truth, very few investments are made where the bulk of the return isn't expected in under 30 years or they won't get made. Part of that is math - a dollar today is worth well less than half out thirty years, part of it is lifespan - even long-term investors want a return in their adult lifetime and part of it is uncertainty - hard to argue we'll really know today whether or not something will have value in 2047 (just image investing in a large inventory of fax machines in 1987 - pretty newish business technology at the time [been around longer, but just getting adopted as a main-stream item then]).

Additionally, and it took me awhile to wrap my mind around this, every piece of capital has to justify its existence de novo every year. So most capital intensive investments - ships, buildings, industrial machines, etc. - have a big head start since they cost nothing to "buy" in year two and out, but they still have to justify themselves on an operating basis. Overtime, as new technologies come on line, everything - including the cost of operating the old (can you find parts, for example, as it breaks down more often), upgrading its systems, insuring it, does it fit the new "standards" (dock size, etc.) and its perceived image by the customer - works against the old.

At some point, even a "free" ship is so old that the extra costs of running it, upgrading it, insuring it, "selling" it to the public outweighs buying a new one. A few other things impact this - old has all its tax appreciation wrung out of it - and those making the decision today are almost certainly "new" people who aren't emotionally or on the record as being invested in the old item and perhaps want the joy of creating a new thing (IMHO, a lot of quite functional buildings get killed because this - along with the other reasons - is enough to tip the balance against a still quite functional building).
 
Fading Fast

Fading Fast

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16,870
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New York City
BlueTrain said:
I don't think high quality necessarily means something is going to last longer. It depends what you're talking about. Even so, will a Mercedes last longer than a Ford? Will one even go faster, if that's important? Will a pair of shoes with a real leather sole that costs $500, assuming there are any that cost that much, last any longer than a pair of ordinary Rockport shoes at, say, $100.00? There are differences, to be sure, but does quality necessarily mean something will last a long time, all other things being equal?
Click to expand...

Agreed. There is a big difference between quality and luxury and even within those often blurred categories longevity is not always a defining feature or, simply put, better.

Cashmere sweaters, IMHO, do not last as long as well-made Shetland wool sweaters but cost more because the fibers are rarer and the feel of cashmere sweater is softer than "scratchy" wool. Cashmere, IMHO, is a luxury good: It is more expensive, has a nice feature or two (its softness), but will not, on a practical level - warmth-giving and longevity - do better than a less expensive wool sweater.

I mentioned Sony in an earlier post. For years (not now) I thought of Sony as a high-quality (not luxury) product as you paid about 20% more for it, but the quality (picture, sound) was better, the service outstanding and its longevity (based on comparison studies) was better. I believed you got more than 20% additional value for the 20% additional price.
 
2jakes

2jakes

I'll Lock Up
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9,680
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Alamo Heights ☀️ Texas
LizzieMaine said:
A fine hand-built luxury car made of the finest materials will still disintegrate into a rusted-out beater within about fifteen years if you drive it year-in-year-out thru New England winters.
Click to expand...

I left a new reproduction vintage bicycle at a vacation home at the coast for a
year on purpose.
The metal and paint had aged perfectly
to a faded golden rusted hue which
I prefer.
 
B

BlueTrain

Call Me a Cab
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2,073
A better example might be in comparing stainless steel flatware with flatware that is sterling silver. Some stainless flatware is cheap and will bend easily. But good quality stainless flatware is the equal of any silver flatware in quality but it still isn't (real) silverware. So it doesn't take long before it become confusing. Is real silver flatware better than good stainless flatware, which should last your lifetime and then some? There is such a thing as quality and it shouldn't be confused with luxury. A pair of shoes that cost $500 is a luxury no matter what their quality.
 
LizzieMaine

LizzieMaine

Bartender
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Where The Tourists Meet The Sea
I think one of the things that makes a luxury product a luxury product is that it *doesn't* last as long -- that decadence of "enjoy it for the fleeting moment that it lasts" is what *makes* it luxury. "Service muslin" sheets will last for many years. "Luxury percale" will wear out in only a few.
 
B

BlueTrain

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That's debatable about boots. Depends on which two pair of boots you pick to compare. I have no reason to believe my Hathorn boots will last any longer than my surplus army boots. In the meantime, however, those custom made boots will probably fit better, especially if your feet are hard to fit or if you have feet problems, and should therefore be more comfortable.

A good example of a luxury good that is a luxury good because it isn't really practical is linen clothing. Your idea of being presentable may be different from mine but linen is not wash and wear. But everyone here knows that already because all the men have a white linen suit they wear in the summer, with a vest. Right?
 
Trenchfriend

Trenchfriend

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@Stearmen

But to me, even under Norwegian Cruise Lines, it looked like a kind of a long-run "grace period" for the refurbished but outdated Norway. NCL was clever to grab the ship, but it was just market-economy, no romantic. And they ran her down until the bitter end in 2003.

And I´m honest. It would have never been much interesting for me, to travel on her.

But it was of course bitter to see her finally beached in Alang. :(
 
B

BlueTrain

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I was thinking of Satyricon but I've neither read the book nor seen the movie, so that may not be correct at all.
 
2jakes

2jakes

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,680
Location
Alamo Heights ☀️ Texas
I've heard of automats but have never been to one. Don't have them here.


I do recall places with lots of washers,
dryers, housewives and all my
clothes came out pink from the
washer.
At least they did for me the first time
until a housewife there explained to
me to separate the whites from the
colors.
Hmmm ...:(
 
U

Upgrade

One of the Regulars
Messages
126
Location
California
You hear it occasionally during the holiday creep with Frank Sinatra's "Old Fashioned Christmas", one of the few Christmas songs in a minor key.

>Right now my mom there in the kitchen, basting the Christmas bird,
You'll have to take my word, you can't find that at the automat.…
 
LizzieMaine

LizzieMaine

Bartender
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Where The Tourists Meet The Sea
There aren't any real Automats left -- the last one closed in 1991. Horn & Hardart is now the primary Burger King franchisee for New York City.

The "classic" Automat of song and legend was entirely an urban Northeastern phenomenon -- they were confined to New York and Philadelphia, and a few in Boston which didn't last long. With the exception of a failed incursion into Chicago in the 1920s, that was it. Chicago was a bastion of the one-arm lunchroom format, with the Thompson's chain dominating into the 1930s, and H&H didn't have a chance there. Boston was the home domain of the Waldorf Lunch chain, and the Automats were gone from there by the mid-twenties. But they flourished in New York and Philadelphia before beginning a long, lurching decline in the 1960s.
 
Fading Fast

Fading Fast

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16,870
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New York City
I lived 7 blocks from the last Automat in NYC (and I think anywhere) which closed in '91. It is one of my favorite connects to the Golden Era that I actually experienced and not just in a tourist or one-time manor, but a place that I frequented.

Was it well-past its prime - yup. A bit shabby - yup. But it had the coin-operated wall vending machines (can't explain why, but they are fun to use) and the food was okay and reasonably priced. Also, I loved that you would buy your stuff and sit quietly at a table without being bothered. And, well, I loved the connect to another time period.

But the good news is that it closed and the city got a much needed Gap store - so that every corner could have one. Every time I walk by that stupid Gap I get a small pang of remorse as I can still see the automat and not the stupid jeans and khakis in the window.
 
Last edited:
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BlueTrain

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2,073
Are there any real cafeterias left? By that I mean a kind of restaurant where you pick up a tray, go down the serving line and select what you want to eat, the server puts it on a plate, you take it and go on to select a desert (calories don't count eaten away from home) and a drink and pay for it at the end. The local Ikea store has a little one but the selection is not very large. The meatballs are very good, though, no matter what's in them. But I don't think any of the downtown lunchtime cafeterias are around anymore--not that I ever ate in one.
 
Bushman

Bushman

I'll Lock Up
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4,138
Location
Joliet
A couple of the Chicago museums (the MSI, the Field, the Art Institute) still have that going. Though, to be fair, most of Chicago's museums were built around the turn of the last century, and thus have that kind of Golden Era infrastructure in place. Chicago City Hall also has a cafeteria there, as does the Federal Building.

But as for restaurants on their own with a cafeteria setup? No idea. Last time I was on something like that was the 90s.
 
2jakes

2jakes

I'll Lock Up
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9,680
Location
Alamo Heights ☀️ Texas
Fading Fast said:
I lived 7 blocks from the last Automat in NYC (and I think anywhere) which closed in '91. It is one of my favorite connects to the Golden Era that I actually experienced and not just in a tourist or one-time manor, but a place that I frequented.

Was is well-past its prime - yup. A bit shabby - yup. But it had the coin-operated wall vending machines (can't explain why, but they are fun to use) and the food was okay and reasonably priced. Also, I loved that you would buy your stuff and sit quietly at a table without being bothered. And, well, I loved the connect to another time period.

But the good news is that it closed and the city got a much needed Gap store - so that every corner could have one. Every time I walk by that stupid Gap I get a small pang of remorse as I can still see the automat and not the stupid jeans and khakis in the window.
Click to expand...

I loathe the day when the original Banana Republic sold out to that stupid Gap. :mad:

BlueTrain said:
Are there any real cafeterias left? By that I mean a kind of restaurant where you pick up a tray, go down the serving line and select what you want to eat, the server puts it on a plate, you take it and go on to select a desert (calories don't count eaten away from home) and a drink and pay for it at the end. The local Ikea store has a little one but the selection is not very large. The meatballs are very good, though, no matter what's in them. But I don't think any of the downtown lunchtime cafeterias are around anymore--not that I ever ate in one.
Click to expand...

There’s Lubys cafeterias all over the city which are as you’ve described.
But for the most part, they cater to senior citizens. The food is very soft & bland.
I call it “hospital food”. :p
 
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