Hat Wearing pre-1960 vs. 2017

deadlyhandsome said:

Good point. Still, I don't think that most of us are using steroids. I don't doubt that mens heads are larger now, I just don't know why. My real issue is that I'm not a size 6 3/4 so I could buy some of the wonderful vintage hats out there.

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Yes, my wife who is a 6 7/8 is entirely indifferent to hats (except as a Canadian enamoured with the Toque!). I show her these remarkable vintage hats at stupidly low prices and she just shrugs......maddening.

hatsRme said:

All I could think of was this guy on the left about 3-4 nights ago on a CNN "Town Hall" meeting.
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Good point. I agree that this could apply to ball caps, but not so much with brimmed hats. I don't think we are wearing them differently today. My limited observations are that larger size heads were much less common in the past.

I'm sure I read somewhere that US tapwater is cleaned with amongst other things something that acts as a growth hormone. But big soldiers conspiracy aside, such a varied diet is a modern norm, and there are additives in everything, probably a combination of factors.

deadlyhandsome said:

Good point. I agree that this could apply to ball caps, but not so much with brimmed hats. I don't think we are wearing them differently today. My limited observations are that larger size heads were much less common in the past.

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That conversation has been beat upon severely around here, Dead. As a 7-3/4 - 7/8, XLO, I'm not the biggest head in these parts, but certainly in the upper few percent. I feel your pain. As the post above cites, look at the sizes of professional athletes today compared to when I was a young man in the 60s. VAST difference. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but I know that here in the States the increase is due primarily to the"enriched" foods we eat. Especially the Wonder bread, which "helps build strong bodies 12 ways!!" Indeed, the added nutrients in our food chain has much to do with our increased footprints, and conformateur results.

7-5/8 Vintage lids can be found more often than 7-3/4 by a factor of ten.

hatsRme said:

That conversation has been beat upon severely around here, Dead. As a 7-3/4 - 7/8, XLO, I'm not the biggest head in these parts, but certainly in the upper few percent. I feel your pain. As the post above cites, look at the sizes of professional athletes today compared to when I was a young man in the 60s. VAST difference. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but I know that here in the States the increase is due primarily to the"enriched" foods we eat. Especially the Wonder bread, which "helps build strong bodies 12 ways!!" Indeed, the added nutrients in our food chain has much to do with our increased footprints, and conformateur results.

7-5/8 Vintage lids can be found more often than 7-3/4 by a factor of ten.

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It can always be worse. I see some hats being offended in size 8+. Those poor devils. It does not surprise me that these thoughts have been expressed before; nor will it be a surprise when it happens again.

I've had limited luck in "stretching" size 7 1/2 hats to 7 5/8. I'm just always afraid that I'm going to ruin a vintage hat (as I sadly have done in the past).

I guess knowing the reason why heads are bigger isn't going to change the fact that they are. I'm just wallowing in self-pity as I see the perfect vintage hat for sale ....five sizes too small for me.

Seb Lucas said:

This is hard to answer with any certainty. Hats were also worn differently in different places and over time. For instance, wearing a hat high on the head was common here in the 1920's-30's. Many folk today would say the hats looked too small.

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Well that is interesting. I'll take a look at some old photos to see if they were wearing them higher. Still doesn't solve my problem since I'm not going to wear a hat four inches above my ears.

deadlyhandsome said:

It can always be worse. I see some hats being offended in size 8+. Those poor devils. It does not surprise me that these thoughts have been expressed before; nor will it be a surprise when it happens again.

I've had limited luck in "stretching" size 7 1/2 hats to 7 5/8. I'm just always afraid that I'm going to ruin a vintage hat (as I sadly have done in the past).

I guess knowing the reason why heads are bigger isn't going to change the fact that they are. I'm just wallowing in self-pity as I see the perfect vintage hat for sale ....five sizes too small for me.

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From the thread, "Haiku for the large headed hat man..."

"large headed hat man
no vintage for you tonight
cry alone in shame"

hatsRme said:

All I could think of was this guy on the left about 3-4 nights ago on a CNN "Town Hall" meeting.
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That's Spike Lee. He's 5'5 & ~120#.

I believe ill fitting clothing-- in general-- is a trend pushed by the mass market garment industry. A trim, tailored look limits customers to a certain range of body types and makes the production of clothing much more complicated. I see it everywhere, big baseball hats, puffy sneakers, jackets with shoulder seams halfway to the elbow, and etc. Somebody who stepped out of a time machine from 1940 would find likely men's dress comical, ill fitting, childish...

In a lot of the "Old West" pictures, the cowboys have their hats pushed further back on their heads than you'll see most folks wearing a cowboy hat in present times.

This apple fell right next to the tree as did my father respectively. My grandfather was 5'7" tall; my father is 5'9" tall, and I am 5'11" tall. My father wears a 8 1/2 C boot; I wear a 10 1/2 D.

hatsRme said:

That conversation has been beat upon severely around here, Dead. As a 7-3/4 - 7/8, XLO, I'm not the biggest head in these parts, but certainly in the upper few percent. I feel your pain. As the post above cites, look at the sizes of professional athletes today compared to when I was a young man in the 60s. VAST difference. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but I know that here in the States the increase is due primarily to the"enriched" foods we eat. Especially the Wonder bread, which "helps build strong bodies 12 ways!!" Indeed, the added nutrients in our food chain has much to do with our increased footprints, and conformateur results.

7-5/8 Vintage lids can be found more often than 7-3/4 by a factor of ten.

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Also, prenatal care and vitamins. Look how much bigger newborns are now.

I think there are fewer larger sizes now because there were fewer large heads then (as now). The herd was thin to begin with, and has been getting thinner since.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Frunobulax said:

Also, prenatal care and vitamins. Look how much bigger newborns are now.

I think there are fewer larger sizes now because there were fewer large heads then (as now). The herd was thin to begin with, and has been getting thinner since.

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I wish I was getting thinner...

hatsRme said:

I wish I was getting thinner...

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Don't sell yourself short Charlie, or thin for that matter.

Uhu said:

I believe ill fitting clothing-- in general-- is a trend pushed by the mass market garment industry. A trim, tailored look limits customers to a certain range of body types and makes the production of clothing much more complicated. I see it everywhere, big baseball hats, puffy sneakers, jackets with shoulder seams halfway to the elbow, and etc. Somebody who stepped out of a time machine from 1940 would find likely men's dress comical, ill fitting, childish...

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A whole generation has grown up without knowing how clothing should fit. Baggy suits and skinny jeans. It makes me want to scream.

I'll never for the life of me understand why anyone would be concerned with how someone else is dressed ... let alone how what they are wearing fits them

Very strange

The whole get off my lawn attitude about a younger generation not dresssing to your approval is quite silly to me

they probably look at you and think you look ridiculous... who cares ?

it's like the neighbors looking over the fence to see if your backyard is clean ... worry about your own yard

KarlCrow said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that US tapwater is cleaned with amongst other things something that acts as a growth hormone. But big soldiers conspiracy aside, such a varied diet is a modern norm, and there are additives in everything, probably a combination of factors.

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Interestingly US growth rates have seemingly peaked whereas in the Netherlands they have continued to increase. I think 6'1" is now average for a Dutch male adult.

belfastboy said:

Yes, I googled it!!! There have been multiple studies and we humans are upwards of 4" taller now than one hundred years ago. It is attributed to a number of factors, diet/nutrition etc but also attributed to evolution. I read an article from Live Science and it was most interesting. 5'8" used to be the average height of an American. The bad news is that we are not just growing taller as a species we are, across the world, growing much fatter.

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belfastboy said:

Interestingly US growth rates have seemingly peaked whereas in the Netherlands they have continued to increase. I think 6'1" is now average for a Dutch male adult.

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According to some quick Google research, both are true. On average, we humans are 3"-4" taller than our counterparts were 100 years ago; many "experts" believe this is due to increased nutrition in our diets. Unfortunately, there is also a noticeable increase in "girth", which is believed to be due, particularly in the last two or three decades, to the increased amounts of junk food available to us. However, the data also indicates this all depends on which part of the world you live in--people in North America, central and southern Europe, and East Asia, have all grown taller over the last 100 years, but men in Indonesia and women in Guatemala have shown no increase in height.

Whether or not any of this is relevant to trends in popular hat sizes, I have no idea.

jlw said:

In a lot of the "Old West" pictures, the cowboys have their hats pushed further back on their heads than you'll see most folks wearing a cowboy hat in present times..

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That was largely due to the cameras at the time that weren't particularly good at capturing detail in shadows so when dudes were having their pic taken, they pushed their hats up so their faces could be seen.

Here in the UK, fashionable young men were already going hatless in the thirties. I think thec first fedora I can remember seeing was around 1976 - on Tom Baker's head, in Doctor Who. Disposable fashion definitely affects the way people wear hats now (as opposed to how many people wear hats). Sometimes. you're not even talking about a outfit worn for a season, but people buying really cheap bits in the likes of Primark or Topshop and wearing them once before they go to landfill. Quality doesn't count for much when clothing become so cheap, for some things at least, that it's more expensive to launder than buy new. Probably why brimmedhats for men haven't had a big fashion comeback in recent years: it's simply too expensive to maked something that look half decent to be able tosell it for thesame price as a cheap ballcap. In the midst of thiS disposability, it probably is true that people will take more risks with wearing something differently, including gonig withe the 'anti-fit'. Also inevitable thatthis is a part of disposable fashion, as fashion thrives on novelty. Sometimes you have to go with what's left to be different..... (this is the reason I am predicting that eventualyl high waisted and wdie legged trousers have to come back into fashion at some point: there's only so long an industry that thrives on 'new' can keep lowering waists and tightening legs before it has to go the other way.)

Another factor in terms of some people wearing oversized hats may be they simpyl don't realise they are. Some folks think their head size never changes. Though the hats I wore when younger typically were all sized 'medium', I believe I was probably a 58 or even a 59; now I've been bald for a dozen years, I wear a 57 (except, strangely, in a Lualhere beret, in which I'm resolutely a 58).

KarlCrow said:

Gloves, impossible now to get a pair that fit me well, like a glove. My hands are a size different to eachother and neither is normally s, m or l. Phillip Roth's novel American Pastoral depicts the dying of the art of factory high volume quality glove making well, amongst other things. Probably one of the better novels of the past half century.

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If you don't mind going international, look into Chester Jefferies - https://www.chesterjefferies.co.uk/ . Wonderful stuff, reasonably price. Probably even moreso if you're buying in American dollars, as the pound continues to be weak.

Uhu said:

I believe ill fitting clothing-- in general-- is a trend pushed by the mass market garment industry. A trim, tailored look limits customers to a certain range of body types and makes the production of clothing much more complicated. I see it everywhere, big baseball hats, puffy sneakers, jackets with shoulder seams halfway to the elbow, and etc. Somebody who stepped out of a time machine from 1940 would find likely men's dress comical, ill fitting, childish...

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Probably also true for somebody from 1900 who arrved in 1940, and so on.

jlw said:

This apple fell right next to the tree as did my father respectively. My grandfather was 5'7" tall; my father is 5'9" tall, and I am 5'11" tall. My father wears a 8 1/2 C boot; I wear a 10 1/2 D.

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We're pretty consistent in our family; in my dad's line, all the men for at least three generations now have been 5'10"-6' and wear a UK8/US9 shoe. We'll see if my nephew bucks the trend in about a decade's time.

moontheloon said:

I'll never for the life of me understand why anyone would be concerned with how someone else is dressed ... let alone how what they are wearing fits them

Very strange

The whole get off my lawn attitude about a younger generation not dresssing to your approval is quite silly to me

they probably look at you and think you look ridiculous... who cares ?

it's like the neighbors looking over the fence to see if your backyard is clean ... worry about your own yard

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Indeed. Way I see it, the more people dress 'weay out', the better. I stick out less then myself.

My big lesson in tolerance came from the priase my outfits received from local hip hop kids.....

Edward said:

If you don't mind going international, look into Chester Jefferies - https://www.chesterjefferies.co.uk/ . Wonderful stuff, reasonably price. Probably even moreso if you're buying in American dollars, as the pound continues to be weak.

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thanks I will, buying in Euros so similarly the exchange rate favours me at this time.