List of different hats from more dressy to less dressy?

Within the immediately above picture selection, the man wearing the glasses, either has his hat on backwards or the pic has been reversed.
(The hatband's bow is on the right side, not the left; could it then be a women's (fake) Topper?)

My take on formality leads me to believe that a Hard Top Hat, banded without bow, would be of a higher rank than one with a bow,
it being, the Plainness of Formality.
As I had mentioned within another thread, a non-collapsible Topper would be of a higher rank, Box Seating, than that of it's lesser, Floor Seating, Cousin.

Not yet, herein mentioned, Less is More:
Side Dents; Fancy Bows, Feather(s); Press Cards; Matches; - Less Formal.
(Bound/Cavanagh Edge - More Formal.)

Regards,
J T

mayserwegener said:

Today a Homburg (Soft Felt) can also be worn with casual clothing. What is interesting is Edward VII's original Homburg wasn't considered a Formal Hat type.

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I remember one Lounger, Manfred, who would wear a Homburg with a leather jacket and jeans, and it was a great looking casual combo.

I think some of these hats are very nation specific with regards to formality. Here in the UK, bowlers/derbies are very definitely at the formal end (below toppers and on par with homburgs) - they were worn until relatively recently primarily by bankers and the like in London. Images of a sea of men crossing London Bridge in bowlers and pinstripe suits are fairly well known. Further, as a Brit, I would replace the initial listing of fedora as more formal than trilby with medium snap brim as more formal to wide or narrow snap brim (any fedora is a trilby to me ).

Zoukatron said:

I think some of these hats are very nation specific with regards to formality. Here in the UK, bowlers/derbies are very definitely at the formal end (below toppers and on par with homburgs) - they were worn until relatively recently primarily by bankers and the like in London. Images of a sea of men crossing London Bridge in bowlers and pinstripe suits are fairly well known. Further, as a Brit, I would replace the initial listing of fedora as more formal than trilby with medium snap brim as more formal to wide or narrow snap brim (any fedora is a trilby to me ).

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There is little point to any of this today outside of a very small circle that still adheres to such formalities (even in G.B.).

In the early 1900s working class people wore Stiff Felts on a daily basis. Same with Homburg like Curled Brim Soft Felts.

There's a lot of flexibility that didn't exist 80+ years ago.

For me, the only hat to be worn with black tie is a black Homburg. The only hat to wear to formal (white tie) is a black topper. Morning dress has a bit more latitude but I still think a topper is the best option. I don't think that bowlers/derbies have a place on the spectrum; they went the way of the frock coat. Top hats are also becoming rare even among the wealthy at formal events; the Royal Ascot notwithstanding.

For most of us these arcane rules don't apply. At the last semi formal (black tie) event I went to I was the only one wearing a hat. 200ish men in dinner jackets and one black Homburg amongst them.

I still wear a grey Homburg when I want to dress up for a business meeting, otherwise fedoras are just as acceptable in most career fields. Now, let's be honest: wearing any felt hat sets you apart in most settings. It's tough to wear a brimmed hat at work and not feel like your in a costume if you are the only one wearing one.


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T Jones said:

I remember one Lounger, Manfred, who would wear a Homburg with a leather jacket and jeans, and it was a great looking casual combo.

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I do this on occasion, so I agree!

jlee562 said:

Agreed...

Top Hat
Bowler/Derby
Homburg
Fedora/Dress Western
Trilby/Western

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For a modern Flounger approximating 30s-50s etiquette, that's probably about spot on.

Abraham said:

I thought the bowler was extremely casual? Originally an estate keepers "safety" hat?

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Originally, yes. What's more, it was The Hat that Built "America" - more commonly worn in the Wild West than any so-called cowboy hat. As is ever the case, of course, one generation's casual is the next's formal, and by the 30s it was very much a formal, City hat. Very, very rarely seen in the UK nowadays outside of novelty versions for tourists, steampunks, retired Guards officers on parade, or Orange marches. Shied away from them for years myself, though I am tempted these days by perhaps a brown one. Still doubt I'd wear itg as often as I do my Homburgs.

scottyrocks said:

I was also under the impression that this was basically a work hat.

And if anyone made these hats appear to be of the 'lower' classes, it was Laurel and Hardy.

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In origin, yes - later on, it rose to formality.

suitedcboy said:

I contend that the hat's ranking is dependent on what it is worn with. A chimney sweep with a tophat is not formal and tails with a western hat worn to a Texas Gala is highly formal.
We all know that all rules of hat wear were obviously meant to be broken since they are regularly broken and walked on until they are mere dust.

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Nowadays, with those of us who wear a hat much other than a beanie or a ballcap being very much in the minority, this is probably true. The average person on the street nowadays can rarely distinguish a fedora from a "cowboy hat".

T Jones said:

I remember one Lounger, Manfred, who would wear a Homburg with a leather jacket and jeans, and it was a great looking casual combo.

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The Homburg is an interesting one, different in the UK than the US. The American style fedora didn't really arrive in the UK in significant numbers until the thirties (by which time many fashion-forward young men were already abandoning hats altogether); in the 20s, in the UK and Ireland the Homburg was often worn the way a fedora might have been in the US - casually, and with a pinch: think less Churchill in black lounge, more Michael Collins in his pre-Free State Army General tweeds.

deadlyhandsome said:

Top hats are also becoming rare even among the wealthy at formal events; the Royal Ascot notwithstanding.

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Indeed; I think a lot of that sort now perceive them as 'fancy dress'... but then we've long gone beyond the age of 'creative black tie', and entered the hell of 'creative morning dress'......

For most of us these arcane rules don't apply. At the last semi formal (black tie) event I went to I was the only one wearing a hat. 200ish men in dinner jackets and one black Homburg amongst them.

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I'm often in the same boat; not that I care much, tbh: I enjoy following - or flouting - the Old Rules for myself, but I long ago gave up caring who else notices. That said, my approach to black tie has long been an open and gleeful embracing of it as an opportunity to wear the same thing better than everyone else. There's something quite fun and rakish about a black fedora with black tie (as long as the guys wearing them realise the hat is outerwear, and don't keep it on all night like some sort of fancy dress costume), though if I'm going to step away from the homburg for black tie, my personal preference is a black beret, which I've always associated with a joyous, Old Hollywood, flamboyance. I've even employed it with full white tie on one occasion where there simply wasn't the proper provision for a top hat. In Summer, with an ivory DJ, I prefer a straw boater (or perhaps a panama where there's no 'safe' storage place for the boater, given how little respect many people show others' hats these days).

I still wear a grey Homburg when I want to dress up for a business meeting, otherwise fedoras are just as acceptable in most career fields. Now, let's be honest: wearing any felt hat sets you apart in most settings. It's tough to wear a brimmed hat at work and not feel like your in a costume if you are the only one wearing one.

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Indeed. I think what it always boils down to is how one carries oneself: the difference between clothing and costume is often simple confidence. It rather reminds me of a Glaswegian academic with whom I used to work, who wore a kilt probably four or five days a week as a matter of course. He was so comfortable in it and wore it so naturally that it was rarely questioned, a world away from the sort of guy who wears one once for a wedding and walks around all day going "Look at me! I'm wearing a skirt!". Myself, I do like a homburg with a lounge suit for special occasion days like graduation ceremonies or weddings.

Black beret with black tie? Interesting take. I've worn a black ascot cap occasionally to black tie - I took it off once indoors, but I feel like if I went with a beret I might leave it on (I'm not a beret person though).

With regards to the matter of how relevant the "rules" of formal dress are to us today, I think they are still completely relevant today. I think that the public at large attach too much importance to the word rules, if they understood the rules as principles or guidelines, they make more sense. They just teach us the best way to put together a damn good looking outfit for whatever dress code it is. Anytime I see someone trying to be really creative with black tie or morning dress, I just feel like they look like they are trying too hard to be special. Anytime I see someone really embrace the rules and just keep it classic, I can't help but admire them - not for keeping the rules, but because they just look damn good.

Zoukatron said:

Black beret with black tie? Interesting take. I've worn a black ascot cap occasionally to black tie - I took it off once indoors, but I feel like if I went with a beret I might leave it on (I'm not a beret person though).

With regards to the matter of how relevant the "rules" of formal dress are to us today, I think they are still completely relevant today. I think that the public at large attach too much importance to the word rules, if they understood the rules as principles or guidelines, they make more sense. They just teach us the best way to put together a damn good looking outfit for whatever dress code it is. Anytime I see someone trying to be really creative with black tie or morning dress, I just feel like they look like they are trying too hard to be special. Anytime I see someone really embrace the rules and just keep it classic, I can't help but admire them - not for keeping the rules, but because they just look damn good.

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I agree. The way to set yourself apart in formal and semi-formal attire is to do it all the right way and to not get creative. The proper fabric, cut, fit, and all the details are what we should strive for. When it's done right you should have a hard time saying what's right about it but everyone will "just know."

I did say earlier that the rules are arcane and do not apply because they are no longer universally followed and most won't think twice if they see a man wear a long tie with a tuxedo. Some people still care, but not that many. I see the trends only getting worse. Casual Friday has extended to casual everyday in many offices. The so-called "athleisure" industry which markets gym clothing as everyday attire is the fastest growing market segment. Those who follow the old norms are the exception in most circumstances. I'm all for keeping the standards inspite of the world, but I also realize that it's now a rearguard effort. And I also realize that my stating that "I don't care how the majority dress, I'll dress how I like (traditional standards)" is very similar to the "rebels" who say the same and throw out the "rules."

At some point will "proper" morning dress or white tie become analogous to wearing powdered wigs?

Are you saying formal and semi-formal in the traditional sense (i.e. formal = white tie, morning dress; semi-formal = black tie, stroller/black lounge) or in the more modern sense (i.e. formal = lounge suit and up; semi-formal = something like a sport coat and odd trousers)? I ask because I think we can apply the principles we see in the formal dress codes to informal outfits - and like you say, when people that applications of the principles, they just know it looks good.

Zoukatron said:

Are you saying formal and semi-formal in the traditional sense (i.e. formal = white tie, morning dress; semi-formal = black tie, stroller/black lounge) or in the more modern sense (i.e. formal = lounge suit and up; semi-formal = something like a sport coat and odd trousers)? I ask because I think we can apply the principles we see in the formal dress codes to informal outfits - and like you say, when people that applications of the principles, they just know it looks good.

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To me, semi-formal is a dinner jacket (dinner suit/tuxedo) and formal is white tie or morning dress. I'll confess that I've never owned a morning suit as I have sadly yet to encounter a place where it would be appropriate. I'm lucky if I wear white tie twice a year.

I'm impressed you get to wear white tie at all, I've certainly never had the opportunity to, even living in London. Morning dress is a lot more common here - I always enjoy seeing people dressed up on their way to the Royal Ascot.

I've not done white tie for a bit owing to this year being an odd one, but if you go looking or the opportunities, they're there. I've managed it half a dozen times a year prior to now.

Zoukatron said:

I always enjoy seeing people dressed up on their way to the Royal Ascot.

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I always enjoyed watching the antics of the wasted female punters on Ladies Day!

Edward said:

I've not done white tie for a bit owing to this year being an odd one, but if you go looking or the opportunities, they're there. I've managed it half a dozen times a year prior to now.

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If you don’t mind my asking, at what events are you wearing your tails?

F. J. said:

If you don’t mind my asking, at what events are you wearing your tails?

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New Year events are always good, 30s and earlier 'vintage' nights, balls and other such events with the New Sheridan Club and Chap magazine related evening affairs. Used to be a clubnight somewhere in London that had white tie specific nights, though I don't know where it was or if it still runs.

Zoukatron said:

I'm impressed you get to wear white tie at all, I've certainly never had the opportunity to, even living in London. Morning dress is a lot more common here - I always enjoy seeing people dressed up on their way to the Royal Ascot.

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I live in California. We typically do not dress formally here. I attend a uppity parish where there is pressure to wear a blazer/tie or a suit on a fairly regular basis. I finally had enough of the squawking so I pieced together my own "uniform":

White dress shirt with French cuffs.
Burgundy or red silk foulard 4-in-1
Grey flannel slacks.
Black brogues.
And a shopping bag.

Once I am past the scowls and ensconced in my pew, I open the bag that holds a black morning coat (Brooks, $10.00 in pristine condition), a dove colored vest ($5.00), my grampa's pocket watch, pocketknife and chain. I can "finish dressing" in 2 minutes.

It absolutely drives the haters nuts -- particularly those that know what morning dress is.

Abraham said:

[...] I can "finish dressing" in 2 minutes.

It absolutely drives the haters nuts -- particularly those that know what morning dress is.

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Perhaps I’m missing something, but why don’t you just walk in the door fully dressed? Might it be that your act of dressing in the sanctuary is what annoys them?

F. J. said:

Perhaps I’m missing something, but why don’t you just walk in the door fully dressed? Might it be that your act of dressing in the sanctuary is what annoys them?

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It's a Catholic church -- the pews are located in the nave, not the sanctuary.

The people who get upset are ushers trying to enforce a dress code (suit/tie or sports coat/slacks/tie) that doesn't exist. The morning dress was originally pieced together to mock them. That's why they get upset.

With the vest open, the watch/pocket knife/chain in my pocket, and the coat draped over my arm, I could be a fairly casually dressed person. Buttoning the vest, affixing the watch set-up and slipping on the coat changes that.

Abraham said:

It's a Catholic church -- the pews are located in the nave, not the sanctuary. [...]

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Sorry, I forgot about other denominations using different terminology for different parts. In Baptist churches, the entire room is called the sanctuary.

Abraham said:

[...] The people who get upset are ushers trying to enforce a dress code (suit/tie or sports coat/slacks/tie) that doesn't exist. The morning dress was originally pieced together to mock them. That's why they get upset.

With the vest open, the watch/pocket knife/chain in my pocket, and the coat draped over my arm, I could be a fairly casually dressed person. Buttoning the vest, affixing the watch set-up and slipping on the coat changes that.

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Ah, that makes a bit more sense. But are the ushers actually telling people to dress up or just looking down their noses at folks?