L.L.Bean scraps lifetime return policy

I've seen it in print as both -- Linwood and Leonwood, so it's likely he used both at one time or another, depending on how embarrassed he was at any given moment. There even seems to be a bit of family division on the matter, which may be why the company is having so many problems right now. His granddaughter Linda Bean, one of my favorite people (she said sarcastically), has claimed that L. L.'s wife thought "Leonwood" sounded more dignified, and insisted he used it.

In our neighborhood, kids pretty much roamed free because all the parents sort of pooled resources -- if any parent saw somebody's kid doing something inappropos, they'd have no hesitation in grabbing said kid by the neck and whacking them one, even if the kid wasn't theirs. We took "it takes a village" quite literally in my neighborhood, but in practice it was actually pretty lenient. As long as I stayed away from the O'Briens and didn't go down the breakwater, I was pretty much on my own from the age of five.

LizzieMaine said:

I've seen it in print as both -- Linwood and Leonwood, so it's likely he used both at one time or another, depending on how embarrassed he was at any given moment. There even seems to be a bit of family division on the matter, which may be why the company is having so many problems right now. His granddaughter Linda Bean, one of my favorite people (she said sarcastically), has claimed that L. L.'s wife thought "Leonwood" sounded more dignified, and insisted he used it.

In our neighborhood, kids pretty much roamed free because all the parents sort of pooled resources -- if any parent saw somebody's kid doing something inappropos, they'd have no hesitation in grabbing said kid by the neck and whacking them one, even if the kid wasn't theirs. We took "it takes a village" quite literally in my neighborhood, but in practice it was actually pretty lenient. As long as I stayed away from the O'Briens and didn't go down the breakwater, I was pretty much on my own from the age of five.

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She thought "Leonwood" sounded more dignified than "Linwood?" My God, I'll never make it into "society" as they both sound about the same to me, but if your first name is "Leon" having a middle name "Leonwood" sounds quirky to me.

Maybe she was trying to bring the atmosphere of the Olde South to Freeport -- "Leonwood" sounds like a Southern dialect pronunciation of "Linwood." Ah dew dee-clayah.

Fading Fast said:

If true (not challenging you, just absorbing and thinking about it), how crazy is that? I've often wondered why I saw so many people running around in workout clothes, but being stupid me, I just assumed they were on the way to / from the gym. Also having some yoga clothes / workout clothes hardly says you are rich - they are in the bins at Marshalls. To be sure, talking about your ski trip to Jackson Hole can be showing off, but is wearing a pair of running shoes really a way of showing off?

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Well, I think a couple of things. Athletic gear isn't all equally inexpensive, so there's "it" brands and that sort of thing.

Also, exercising can be expensive and indicates you have leisure time, two signifiers of class. Now I don't think this is necessarily separating upper from middle (the ski trip is more an example of that) but it certainly separates middle from working class. Working class people who work physical jobs typically don't go to the gym (roofers for instance don't have to! And if you're tired from standing all day you're probably not going to go pump iron.) If you're working 60 hours a week at two jobs you don't have time, so wearing workout clothes signifies you have time to head to the gym- free leisure time has always separated middle from working class individuals. One of the reasons why people want to become middle class is to have leisure time and money to spend on it.

Besides that, gym memberships are expensive. Yeah, sure, you can join a gym for $30 a month. Great! But you need a gym that has drop in childcare? That's $800 a year (minimum). Or of you have kids, you need a babysitter or a nanny to watch the kids while you go... again $. Now, you don't need a gym to exercise, but, that's besides the point. Wearing athletic gear and appearing to be heading to the gym is a performance of having the time and moiney to do so.

People have subconsciously picked up on "this is what middle class people wear" and follow it. It's particularly endemic among 30 and 40 something's moms. If you go into one of the modern and expensive new neighborhoods near me in the mornings, you'll see a lot of moms loading their kids into expensive minivans (another signifier of middle class parenthood, you must have a relatively new minivan even with one kid) wearing their athletic gear.

sheeplady said:

Well, I think a couple of things. Athletic gear isn't all equally inexpensive, so there's "it" brands and that sort of thing.

Also, exercising can be expensive and indicates you have leisure time, two signifiers of class. Now I don't think this is necessarily separating upper from middle (the ski trip is more an example of that) but it certainly separates middle from working class. Working class people who work physical jobs typically don't go to the gym (roofers for instance don't have to! And if you're tired from standing all day you're probably not going to go pump iron.) If you're working 60 hours a week at two jobs you don't have time, so wearing workout clothes signifies you have time to head to the gym- free leisure time has always separated middle from working class individuals. One of the reasons why people want to become middle class is to have leisure time and money to spend on it.

Besides that, gym memberships are expensive. Yeah, sure, you can join a gym for $30 a month. Great! But you need a gym that has drop in childcare? That's $800 a year (minimum). Or of you have kids, you need a babysitter or a nanny to watch the kids while you go... again $. Now, you don't need a gym to exercise, but, that's besides the point. Wearing athletic gear and appearing to be heading to the gym is a performance of having the time and moiney to do so.

People have subconsciously picked up on "this is what middle class people wear" and follow it. It's particularly endemic among 30 and 40 something's moms. If you go into one of the modern and expensive new neighborhoods near me in the mornings, you'll see a lot of moms loading their kids into expensive minivans (another signifier of middle class parenthood, you must have a relatively new minivan even with one kid) wearing their athletic gear.

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Wow, that all makes sense broken down as you did - but how exhausting it all is.

Where do contractors, plumbers, electricians and some of the more experienced guys (haven't met any women in these rolls yet) on their teams land on this measure as the ones that work in, for example, our not-fancy coop seem to have (most of them anyway) nice homes, cars, leisure time and take vacations? Whereas, a lot of the office workers and sales clerks - "white collar" jobs - who haven't moved far up the ladder don't have the homes, cars, leisure time or take vacations as most are struggling to just pay their bills.

That's not a "gotcha" question - I'm not playing that silly game - just genuinely asking as I've noticed, over the last two decades, a big switch where the "blue collars" guys doing the jobs I noted are doing - financially and lifestyle-wise - better than the "white collar" men and women I noted.

Fading Fast said:

Wow, that all makes sense broken down as you did - but how exhausting it all is.

Where do contractors, plumbers, electricians and some of the more experienced guys (haven't met any women in these rolls yet) on their teams land on this measure as the ones that work in, for example, our not-fancy coop seem to have (most of them anyway) nice homes, cars, leisure time and take vacations? Whereas, a lot of the office workers and sales clerks - "white collar" jobs - who haven't moved far up the ladder don't have the homes, cars, leisure time or take vacations as most are struggling to just pay their bills.

That's not a "gotcha" question - I'm not playing that silly game - just genuinely asking as I've noticed, over the last two decades, a big switch where the "blue collars" guys doing the jobs I noted are doing - financially and lifestyle-wise - better than the "white collar" men and women I noted.

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So class is much more than money- in fact- it has little to do with money.

For instance, I work in a small liberal arts college. As a college professor I immediately get huge class bonus points. I don't make that much money, in fact, in a skilled trade, I'd easily make double. However, I'm highly educated, run in circles with people who came from much higher than the working class backgrounds I came from. We travel for work. I've been internationally (more times than I can easily count). My children can receive a free college degree from my benefits. I know the right questions to ask at student parent meetings. I dress in suits. I have a rank and privledge that's higher than someone walking into a store after work with dirty construction clothes. I get treated well by clerks and servers based upon my work clothes. I am assumed to have come from at least a middle class background. My kids will have all sorts of opportunities that even if I made twice the money they might not have... free concerts, social events, etc. They will be assumed to go to college by all my coworkers, and this presumption will be in their language and how they speak to my kids. It's doesn't matter that I make less than many k-12 teachers, I get all these positive assumptions placed on my kids. That's class, not finances.

Now, growing up as a farm kid, I can tell you that's not the assumptions I got when I was young. My teachers would tell me, "you're smart, you should go to college" and "don't get married too early, you're too bright." There was no free events for me to attend, and if there was, I didn't know how to dress. I didn't know what people wore to stuff- like, what do you wear to a really nice wedding? What do you wear when you get invited to your professor's house for dinner? How do you interact at a fancy dinner? Do you order a cocktail or wine? This is all stuff people of higher class observe.

My kids will know all those things, even if I myself am still learning them. My MIL came from money (they lost it all in the depression but not the attitude. I realized I was marrying "up" when she asked me if I was registering for china for the wedding and if I'd be getting double dessert plates so we could have salad plates. I never even had considered registering- its the sort of thing my people didn't do. My parents got married at a potluck.

Thank you, Lizzie, for suggesting some years ago that I read The Status Seekers. It changed my views and this thread is now speaking to some of what's in the book. I highly recommend anyone interested in class to read it.

Vance Packard was a voice crying out in the wilderness during the Golden Age of the Boys, and all his books are well worth reading.

LizzieMaine said:

Vance Packard was a voice crying out in the wilderness during the Golden Age of the Boys, and all his books are well worth reading.

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Interestingly enough, I've read a few reviews of his books written at the time the books came out. They were pretty harsh. Nobody likes having their bull gored.

"A prophet is without honor in his own country."

LizzieMaine said:

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/16/l-l-bean-reports-difficult-year-in-2017/

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Sound like LL Bean the family run company is completely gone - welcome to Corporate America in a company with stagnate (at best) economics. A lot of the steps taken this year at Bean were taken by not-family-businesses in the '90s and, if not then, post 2008.

We experienced that shipping issue - took about two months for a couple pairs of socks to arrive (despite being in stock). If that was a system wide commonality, that had to hurt the company in a big way.

LizzieMaine said:

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/16/l-l-bean-reports-difficult-year-in-2017/

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If you read one corporate bloviation, you've read them all. There must be a class at CEO business school. 400 level verbal flatulence.

LizzieMaine said:

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/16/l-l-bean-reports-difficult-year-in-2017/

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Smith said the company identified a new target customer in 2017, the “outdoor family enthusiast,” and launched a successful new advertising campaign in the fall titled “Be an Outsider.”

If sales are flat and they are laying off employees, how are they defining "successful"?

PrettySquareGal said:

If sales are flat and they are laying off employees, how are they defining "successful"?

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Management still got paid their full salary and kept all of their perks.

3fingers said:

Management still got paid their full salary and kept all of their perks.

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Of course they did. [emoji849]

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