BK Liberty Hide Questions

tropicalbob · Mar 24, 2018

If I remember correctly, the first time this happened a couple of years back I spent some time searching the thread for the nasty comments that Andy claimed were directed against him. There weren't any. The most anyone said was that they didn't think the Liberty leather was the all-time greatest leather that ever existed. For that he went off the deep end. Sending nasty, personal emails to complete strangers? Having a dodgy story about his past and a roving business address? There could be a problem there. Strange guy.

ProteinNerd · Mar 24, 2018

bluesmandan said:
It’s the ironic intolerance of those who claim to espouse tolerance and the lack of diversity among those who claim to believe in diversity. If you can’t see that... well, sorry.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.

HoosierDaddy · Mar 24, 2018

bluesmandan said:
That’s my point. It’s a case of irony. If one cannot tolerate others holding different views, then using the epithet of bigot doesn’t necessarily make the other person a bigot, but it is certainly the one using the epithet who is an intolerant bigot. It’s the ironic intolerance of those who claim to espouse tolerance and the lack of diversity among those who claim to believe in diversity. If you can’t see that... well, sorry.

I don’t care to engage further on this topic. I posted earlier because i hoped the direction of the thread could be changed to be less political and ad hominem, and more about the quality of the jackets. And yes i was quite aware that the OP had helped derail his own thread. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t derailed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree .
It's not mandatory that I must agree with anyone here or the several of like mind posting in unison that we must accept homosexuality behavior as normal or if someone thinks or even mentions otherwise are then considered a hating bigot. I don't have to 'like' or even ignore any manner of how him/her may be conducting them selves. I don't have to join a herd mentality that society now may demand as only worthy of acceptance.
I think and say, and may even post what I believe and do think no matter how anyone feels about it. You won't hush me but may scold me, and you can even belittle me ( behind a keyboard). Call me names..I could give a shit less. I am usually nice to practically anyone. I like a diversity of people...but 'I don't have to put up with or embrace certain behavior into my life that 'I' consider improper, corrupt or yes even perverse'. I usually don't 'hate' a person..but can despise and even scorn some actions and 'behavior' that they might portray.
Now you can strongly disagree with me all you want...but demanding that I 'must' agree with your doctrine is BS.
Now...come at me , Bro...

HD

Sloan1874 · Mar 24, 2018

I don't think it's 'herd mentality' to call out somebody for what is objectively 'hate speech'. If somebody holds views that are at variance from what are considered 'the norm', that's not really the issue here - it's about expressing them in a manner that attempts to abuse and belittle another person.
That is to say: not embracing your own fabulousness is one thing, actively making people feel that their own fabulousness is somehow 'perverse' is just plain wrong.

Superfluous · Mar 24, 2018

I find myself in the unfamiliar position of not having anything to add that has not already be said above in a compelling and eloquent manner.

This is a GREAT community!

Fonzie · Mar 24, 2018

I'll play the same game and use my right for "Free Speech" starting a movement against homophobic leather jacket companies that harass TFL members: #boycottBillKelso

Big J · Mar 24, 2018

The 'Greatest Generation' gave their lives to free themselves, future generations, and millions of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, those with disabilities and different political opinions.

That's good enough for me.
I'm not gay.
I don't care if you are.
I won't persecute you.

ton312 · Mar 24, 2018

I don't see anything either but honestly who cares. A final thought about this thread which has really gone well off the beaten path. I've always found that men who feel threatened/outraged by homosexual men are themselves fighting some internal struggle with their own sexuality. Feelings of guilt and shame that they can't reconcile are turned to anger and bigotry/slander etc.
I have many gay friends, some of whom are adoptive parents like myself. We share the same struggles as fathers and husbands. We have interracial families and we have strength and comfort in each other's support. I will stand by my gay brothers and sisters in the same way I will my hetero brothers and sisters. It's 2018 for God's sake. Time to step off the moral f'ing high horse and realize people are people and we are all trying to navigate this life, love our families and provide for our children.
When I first brought my daughter home I was afraid to look people in the eye. Afraid of being judged by both white and black people for not being a suitable parent for a child of another race. That quickly passed. What's left is the fierce determination and sworn promise of a protector and caregiver for life. My homosexual brothers and sisters are finding that same strength. I applaud them and count myself in their ranks of steady supporters. I'm not saying you have to approve of their lifestyle but you for damn sure don't have to judge it either. You don't have that right. You aren't better. Period.

Big J · Mar 24, 2018

"Hey, is that an A-2?"
"Yeah."
"Aero?"
"No, Bill Kelso."
"Those guys who talk about 'faggots' and other people's wives on FB? No thanks."

Seriously, it just has no place in business, and if that kind of conversation attracts you as a customer, you ain't right.

It's the reason I can't stand DD. Ask a question about a product, get a sh1tstorm of personal abuse on the internet.

I feel for Otter, who I seem to recall was actually a real soldier, and actually, y'know, dangerous in a former life. It's that age old thing of people being prepared to say behind a keyboard things they would be way too scared to say to your face.

Mark · Mar 24, 2018

Guess i will not be posting my new BK Aeronaut A1 (In Liberty HH of course) when i get it. Although i did order it couple of months ago. Is that allowed guys? I don't mind gays, honestly!

Sloan1874 · Mar 24, 2018

Absolutely, but do you think you'll get anything other than a lukewarm reaction? "It looks good, but, y'know... it's made by *those guys*."
This is why I really don't understand BK: why wilfully take a baseball bat to your own reputation in such a stupid, unnecessary way?

Mark · Mar 24, 2018

Sloan1874 said:
Absolutely, but do you think you'll get anything other than a lukewarm reaction? "It looks good, but, y'know... it's made by *those guys*."
This is why I really don't understand BK: why wilfully take a baseball bat to your own reputation in such a stupid, unnecessary way?

I was kidding around. I have already decided i will not post review/pics, shame because its fun to do. I always feel some what anxious posting anything on here to be honest. Thanks

Otter · Mar 24, 2018

Thanks Big J, but there are others on here who deserve the Laurels more than me, some who served in Vietnam and even a dust off pilot if I remember correctly. I was too late for the Falklands and invalided out part through Gulf War 1 with a busted tib fib and ankle. Never saw combat proper.
A friend of mine told me one of the scariest stories I have heard, he was leading a vehicle patrol in Bosnia, armoured land rover, when the came under a prepared ambush. He said at first it was just light arms which made a hell of a racket and fist sized dents in the side of his vehicle. Then something heavier opened up and he could see green tracers going through both sides of his vehicle. The miracle was they drove through the kill zone at speed and not one of his troops got hit.

Sloan1874 · Mar 24, 2018

I think this is one of the easiest forums to post on. It's the stupidity of others outwith here that spoils things.

Superfluous · Mar 24, 2018

ton312 said:
I don't see anything either but honestly who cares. A final thought about this thread which has really gone well off the beaten path. I've always found that men who feel threatened/outraged by homosexual men are themselves fighting some internal struggle with their own sexuality. Feelings of guilt and shame that they can't reconcile are turned to anger and bigotry/slander etc.
I have many gay friends, some of whom are adoptive parents like myself. We share the same struggles as fathers and husbands. We have interracial families and we have strength and comfort in each other's support. I will stand by my gay brothers and sisters in the same way I will my hetero brothers and sisters. It's 2018 for God's sake. Time to step off the moral f'ing high horse and realize people are people and we are all trying to navigate this life, love our families and provide for our children.
When I first brought my daughter home I was afraid to look people in the eye. Afraid of being judged by both white and black people for not being a suitable parent for a child of another race. That quickly passed. What's left is the fierce determination and sworn promise of a protector and caregiver for life. My homosexual brothers and sisters are finding that same strength. I applaud them and count myself in their ranks of steady supporters. I'm not saying you have to approve of their lifestyle but you for damn sure don't have to judge it either. You don't have that right. You aren't better. Period.

Ton,

Thank you for the brave, poignant post. Whenever I see photos of you and your beautiful daughter, it warms my heart. BTW, I am adopted and so grateful that my parents chose that path. Many people have asked me whether I have or will search for the woman who gave birth to me – my response is always the same: I only have one set of parents.

As you know, my wife is Chinese (from Taiwan). I first met her 30 years ago and we dated for a year. I was madly in love with her back then. However, I was fearful about committing to an interracial marriage. I was uneasy about the social stigma. She didn’t fit the Normal Rockwell painting. In truth, I was a coward. Thus, I walked away from the woman I deeply loved. Two years later, I married a Caucasian c**t that I did not love, and I was completely miserable for many years. Many of the hobbies I pursued with obsessive fervor – e.g., watches and cars – were largely fueled by my desire to escape my wife and marriage. After I finally divorced the c**t, I reconnected with the love of my life (who also had a failed marriage during the interim). We have been a happily married interracial couple for six years now. I cannot imagine a life without her and I regularly kick myself for the profoundly bad decision I made 30 years ago when I cowardly walking away from her. Yes, we occasionally face bigotry because of our different races, but I do not give one sh*t. We are spectacularly happy together and I so blessed to call her my wife.

We were married at the top of Mammoth Mountain . . . in addition to being interracial, we are also a mixed couple in that she is a snowboarder and I am a skier.

Note the spiffy jackets, which render this post on-topic for the Outerwear forum.

Brettafett · Mar 24, 2018

That is awesome! Congrats to you both and what an inspiration. But.... the skies mate. Snowboarding all the way hahaha

ton312 · Mar 24, 2018

Superfluous said:
Ton,

Thank you for the brave, poignant post. Whenever I see photos of you and your beautiful daughter, it warms my heart. BTW, I am adopted and so grateful that my parents chose that path. Many people have asked me whether I have or will search for the woman who gave birth to me – my response is always the same: I only have one set of parents.

As you know, my wife is Chinese (from Taiwan). I first met her 30 years ago and we dated for a year. I was madly in love with her back then. However, I was fearful about committing to an interracial marriage. I was uneasy about the social stigma. She didn’t fit the Normal Rockwell painting. In truth, I was a coward. Thus, I walked away from the woman I deeply loved. Two years later, I married a Caucasian c**t that I did not love, and I was completely miserable for many years. Many of the hobbies I pursued with obsessive fervor – e.g., watches and cars – were largely fueled by my desire to escape my wife and marriage. After I finally divorced the c**t, I reconnected with the love of my life (who also had a failed marriage during the interim). We have been a happily married interracial couple for six years now. I cannot imagine a life without her and I regularly kick myself for the profoundly bad decision I made 30 years ago when I cowardly walking away from her. Yes, we occasionally face bigotry because of our different races, but I do not give one sh*t. We are spectacularly happy together and I so blessed to call her my wife.

View attachment 111756

We were married at the top of Mammoth Mountain . . . in addition to being interracial, we are also a mixed couple in that she is a snowboarder and I am a skier.

View attachment 111757

Note the spiffy jackets, which render this post on-topic for the Outerwear forum.

That's really a beautiful story SF. I do believe in fate and destiny. You and I and many others have been touched by it. My feeling is that regardless of your sexual orientation, you are entitled to find your soulmate and love them. Thanks for sharing your story as well.

Otter · Mar 24, 2018

Loving that second photo SF, put a smile on my face on a busy afternoon, you look like a great couple !

HoosierDaddy · Mar 24, 2018

Hmm BigJ...what does being a real soldier have to do with any of this? Did I miss something? I'm sure many of us have served in the military and have been trained to handle ourselves...and some of us in most any situation. Dealing with life over the years has been a major factor in forming our opinions of course and they don't have to jell with yours.
It comes down, once again, even here, to embellish the same ole statements to attempt to belittle, scold, diminish or even accuse those who may disagree with the mainstream purpose of 'Anyone who doesn't agree with us not only has a intolerant attitude but is therefore subject to our righteous wrath'. " I have many friends who are gay" and " You must have gay tendencies since you dare disagree or are 'bothered' about their conduct and, of course, imagined influences" is the familiar attack with hope to minimize any opposing views.

Listen kids..no one should be abused..even if you disagree with them. However, I don't have to conform to ( or take it with a smile ) your way of thinking or bullying tactics of 'hateful' discourse to prove your point and lecture me for my own good. Foul language and despicable gestures don't impress me whatsoever either.

Andy was/is simply rude and crude with many of his responses. I wouldn't want to deal with him trying to buy a jacket or solving a possible problem. He might handle the process in a nice way or hostility might take over if there is disagreement with him. Perhaps something we all should think about and keep in mind...

HD

Monitor · Mar 24, 2018

Theodoros said:
It is the last time that I will answer on this issue.
I swear I never met this man in the 40 years that I do this job and never hear anything about him or his company in the Greek market.
It's a ghost company, running here and there.
We have been registered in the Greek archives since 1979, we have an address, phones, shop and whoever wants to visit us, our door is always open.
I have previously invited him through the forum to visit us and finally state where this company is and which exactly produces its products. No answer.
So I forbid all of you to involve my name with someone I never met.

I'll just quote this in case anyone missed it.

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I'll Lock Up

Practically Family

One Too Many

I'll Lock Up

My Mail is Forwarded Here

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