78 revolutions per minute

78's

I think acoustical reproduction and electric reproduction are 2 separate categories.
A Victor scroll electric or Columbia ViVa tonal from 25-29 were recorded w/the assumption that reproduction was for state of the art players credenza and the biggest Viva tonal-at some point 28 or 0 the recording technique changed in 28-29- to western electric or VE w/assumption that these would be for state of the art electrical reproduction-all kind of odd in that probably most people were playing records on machines made before 25 and if they invested in sound equipoment it was a radio.
One might argue that the bass upfront Orthophonic sound is a false esthetic-I love it anyway. I have always wanted to hear one of those british EM Ginn machines-they continued to make external horn acoustics I think into the 30/s.

these days its cd's in the car-but when time permits the edison baby console and Credenza (both were restored tone chamber and reproducer)will
be retrieved from my folks basement-the fidelity is really amazing w/restoration and a mint 78. acoustic 78s pre 25 really sound better on a machine w/smaller horn the consolette works well enough.-I did compare a colunbia gramophone and Consolette playing acoustiuc 78;s -victor won out.
If the record is mint thorn needles are great -period sharpening ephemera is cute but I used to use a Dremel mototool and fine sand paper to sharpen. perhaps I am nostalgic for the period in my life when I had time to deal with and learn about this stuff!

feltfan said:

I love shocking people with the volume produced by my
entirely acoustic, windup Victrola...

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Me too! The doors stay shut on mine most of the time because it can be overpowering in our living room.

Well, I did go to the Record Finder(s?) site and was surprised how many artists they had on 78 that I typed in. And how steep some of the prices were. I mean, I love Ray Noble's music, but I'm not about to pay $12.50 for one of his red-label Columbias just 'cause it's in E+ condition.

max, you sure about the Western system coming on in '28? Then what's this little (w) in a circle I see in the runoffs on electric Columbias and OKehs of '25-'27?

I always wondered whether the phrase Viva-tonal Recording on the old Columbia labels was just a catchy trade name, or whether it adhered to any proprietary process. (In mid 1932, just before the Royal Blue discs come out, it disappears and is replaced with just 78 R.P.M. No one knows this, because almost no one has any of the records.)

And what do you get if you play a less than mint 78 via cactus needle?

Fletch said:

If they have (as I suspect) virtually zip from 1925-40 except for The Two Black Crows Go To Hell and a couple of badly-chawed-up Bing Crosby Decca album discs, I wouldn't want any of it. But I might ask 'em for the bottom record in the stack just to be nasty. lol
Better yet, the middle one. "No, just a few more down...Nope, just a few more up. I think that's it...Nope. Too high/low."
...

Well, I did go to the Record Finder(s?) site and was surprised how many artists they had on 78 that I typed in. And how steep some of the prices were. I mean, I love Ray Noble's music, but I'm not about to pay $12.50 for one of his red-label Columbias just 'cause it's in E+ condition.

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Don't "be that guy", Fletch. You were just having a bad day. :eusa_doh:

"Elitists" have always seemed unexplainably proud of themselves trashing Record Finders because RF caters mostly to people who like popular music of the 78 era (Miller, Dorsey, Goodman, Shaw, Ellington...), like me. I never understood it. I was taking up for RF back in school in the days of the "78-L" mailing list (if anyone remembers that), and sorry to see it still goes on. I met & talked to the owner and all the guys who worked there a couple years back. I found in conducting some in-person warehouse transactions, that they're some of the nicest most honest folks I'd ever hope to meet, and it's immediately apparent when you see their place that they're doing it for the enjoyment, not the profits (since 1969).

Don't go to RF looking for your Gennett Electrobeams, and don't go there expecting a complete mint condition run of Glenn Miller for $20, and badmouth when you don't find it. First 2 lines of the original post:

Cousin Hepcat said:

Reccomended 78 source:
(average price $2.50 each VG+, $5 each EX, for swing bands)

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OK Cuz, I'll lay off the bellyachin'. I hate coming off elitist - that only tends to prove that the nice guy collectors aren't the ones with the good stuff.

(I was extra irritated last night because I was reshelving platters in my dry-as-a-bone abode and got TWO nasty papercuts...one under a nail ...within 20 minutes.)

I'm very devoted to popular music of the 78 era myself, just slightly earlier. I was typing in names like Paul Whiteman, Glen Gray, Isham Jones, Ted Fio Rito, Hal Kemp...the favorites of the generation that's just left us.

Fletch said:

OK Cuz, I'll lay off the bellyachin'. I hate coming off elitist - that only tends to prove that the nice guy collectors aren't the ones with the good stuff.

(I was extra irritated last night because I was reshelving platters in my dry-as-a-bone abode and got TWO nasty papercuts...one under a nail ...within 20 minutes.)

I'm very devoted to popular music of the 78 era myself, just slightly earlier. I was typing in names like Paul Whiteman, Glen Gray, Isham Jones, Ted Fio Rito, Hal Kemp...the favorites of the generation that's just left us.

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No sweat

BTW I've collected 78s off & on from when my Granddad started me at age 8, that's how I got interested in everything 1930s-40s... I last counted when I was in school, it was 5000+ discs...

I was on a 1927-1934 jazz & hot dance kick for a few years, that's all I hunted, Tons (easily 1/4th of the whole lot), and you've got great taste in bands from that era, though I never found as much Ellington from that Cotton Club period on 1st pressing 78s as I'dve liked , though never paid > $1 per record those days.

That's back when you didn't go to eBay, or online stores (RF)... you went to outdoor state fairgounds flea market Saturday mornings, and talked to vendors, who would tell you about a friend out in the country with a whole barnfull These last few years though, it's turned into cheap Chinese power tools and 2nd-hand immigrant clothing, the 78 pickins are getting fewer & far between.

I've dug through a couple of old piles of 78's like that. I was amazed at the amount of not exactly hip stuff I found. I realized that these stacks quantitvely, so to speak, represented the actual general tast of the era. The stuff that still exists is the stuff most people bought. We like to think of people back then enjoying the best of what was available, the stuff that has since become classic. But it's interesting to find that the general taste of bygone eras was just as schlocky as it is today.

dhermann1 said:

I've dug through a couple of old piles of 78's like that. I was amazed at the amount of not exactly hip stuff I found. I realized that these stacks quantitvely, so to speak, represented the actual general tast of the era. The stuff that still exists is the stuff most people bought.

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By and large...but not quite, I don't think. I suspect the quality stuff is less represented in the junkpile of today, simply because we've had so many generations looking for it and putting it away in collections. When it comes back, it comes back at mail order auction for $10, $20, $50, $100...

We like to think of people back then enjoying the best of what was available, the stuff that has since become classic. But it's interesting to find that the general taste of bygone eras was just as schlocky as it is today.

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The great public always likes it simple and predictable. But there's an innocence, a simplicity, about the old schlock that makes it easier to take than today's over-produced, over-promoted musical merchandise.

Take Guy Lombardo. Whatever you feel about his music, it never for a second pretended to be anything it wasn't. Guy never tried to swing, never put on fancy pseudo-classical airs – heck, he never even gave up the tuba rhythm and the lemon meringue saxophones. That artless honesty made millions of fans - including Louis Armstrong, possibly the greatest musical innovator of the era. Can you imagine anything like that happening today? I can't...

True

Very true. I listen to The Big Broadcast on WFUV-FM and WFUV.ORG (I'm listening to it right now, actually) and he plays a lot of stuff that was popular then, but is not considered high brow jazz today. Some wonderful good timey stuff. His motto is "Don't you ever forget, rhythm saved the world!" If you like the music of this era, definitely check our Rich Conaty and the Big Broadcast, Sunday noghts 8 till 12 EST.

BTW Charlie Barnet

BTW - I see you have good old Charlie Barnet as your uhh . . err . . . is that what they call an avatar? Or is it just a little picture that represents your persona? Anyhow, I have a 33 rpm disk with a WW2 V-disk recording of him. Great stuff, Kaye Starr, etc., etc.

Fletch said:

By and large...but not quite, I don't think. I suspect the quality stuff is less represented in the junkpile of today, simply because we've had so many generations looking for it and putting it away in collections. When it comes back, it comes back at mail order auction for $10, $20, $50, $100...

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Also the really popular records were often
worn out. Ever get a Louis Jordan 78?
Most of the ones I find are worn thin from
being played over and over at parties. A lot
of blues 78s are that way for the same reason.

I suspect classical 78s survived disproportionately
because they weren't played as often.