New Himel transcontinental railroad - what do you think, keep or return?

Superfluous said:

I suppose Orvis presented an opportunity for Himel to do a bulk sale of standardized jackets and Himel agreed to the design requirements of Orvis in order to complete the deal. Making one-off custom products is a tough business, particularly when applying the artisan craftsmanship that is the hallmark of Himel's bespoke jackets. While superlative quality is obviously Himel's paramount objective, he also must pay his expenses and keep the business afloat. Himel does not enjoy the economy of scale achieved by certain larger manufacturers. Himel is both an artist and a small businessman, and when opportunities like this become available, it is hard to say no. I have never seen one of his Orvis collaborations but, based on what I read here, it clearly in not on a par with Himel's one-off bespoke jackets. I am not going to boycott Himel simply because one of his collaborative products was less than desirable. Likewise, I am not going to boycott Ferrari simply because they recently produced this abomination:

Just as Ferrari remains capable of producing masterpieces notwithstanding the above-depicted FF, Himel also continues to produce superlative jackets notwithstanding the Orvis collaboration. One need look no further then Carlos' recent acquisition for confirmation of Himel's enduring quality.

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Fair point I guess, still think it's a mistake to make such a misshapen jacket. After all Thedi and LW are as small and have never produced something like this.

If Himel is a Ferrari, does that mean that with their wild designs, Thedi are Lamborghini?

Jejupe said:

Ferrari is an excellent comparison point if the purpose of comparison is to prove that 2/3 of the price of a Himel is purely based on the brand instead of value for money.

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And the beat goes on . . .

1. The notion that Himel has brand recognition comparable to Ferrari is, euphemistically speaking, comical.

2. Likewise, the suggestion that 2/3 of the price of a Himel jacket is derived from the brand name is equally comical. Himel is a tiny, obscure, esoteric brand with little or no brand recognition, and no ability to charge a meaningful premium based on its largely non-existent brand recognition.

3. Himel indisputably employs details that are not present in certain lessor priced jackets. In your subjective opinion, these details may not justify the price. In my subjective opinion, these details absolutely justify the price. Regardless of our differing opinions, the fact remains that Himel offers a product that is different from his competitors.

4. Your attempt to transform your subjective opinion into an objective, truism regarding Himel’s jackets is ineffective.

5. Returning to the Ferrari comparison, I strongly disagree with the notion that 2/3 of the value of a Ferrari is derived from the brand name. Ferrari consistently produces superlative automobiles that are materially different and distinguishable from lessor priced competitors. You may not find the differences worthy of the additional price, but you should not, therefore, incorrectly suggest that Ferraris are substantially the same as lessor priced competitors. Does one pay a premium to purchase a Ferrari? Absolutely. Does that premium comprise 2/3 of the price of the car? Not even remotely close. Moreover, there is a reason why Ferraris command a premium: Ferrari has a proven track record of producing exquisite automobiles for 70 years. Moreover, Ferraris hold their value and, in many instances, can be sold used for greater than the original purchase price. When was the last time you purchased a car new, and sold it two years later for more than you paid for it?

Himels and Ferraris certainly aren’t for everyone. That said, there is no need to lambaste these brands simply because you do not believe they are worth the price. Instead, respect those who hold different opinions regarding value, and celebrate their jackets just as I celebrate jackets that I personally would not purchase.

I see these same assertions in sports car forums. 370Z owners trash Corvettes as not being worth the price, and Corvette owners trash Porsches as not being worth the price, and Porsche owners trash Ferraris as not being worth the price, and Ferrari owners trash Bugattis as not being worth the price. What a bunch of hogwash. Buy what you like/enjoy. Haters gonna hate, but that doesn't mean you gotta be a hater. Respect those with different preferences.

You can’t blame Dave, he was asked by a customer to make a jacket (or range of jackets) to set specifications. Isn’t that what he does with every order?

Just because the specifications were errr not optimal he still made the jackets to the customers desires right?

This jacket is not appealing at all but I don't fault DH making it. Brother has to eat. But, if it looks poorly put together, which it does, criticism of said construction is absolutely fair play.
The buyer in this instance was not satisfied, expressed his dismay and gave his honest opinion of the product. That's what this place is about. Many if not all makers reviewed here have had to endure the same set of criticism. Himel jackets receive heightened criticism due to the brand assertion of superiority. To me the mantra of "one good thing" is the epitome of arrogance. (Not unlike LW, tho based on different criteria). It's not all lollipops and rainbows.
This jacket is an absolute waste of a lovely hide. THAT'S the real shame.

ProteinNerd said:

You can’t blame Dave, he was asked by a customer to make a jacket (or range of jackets) to set specifications. Isn’t that what he does with every order?

Just because the specifications were errr not optimal he still made the jackets to the customers desires right?

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It could explain strange measurements, but doesn't explain or excuse the odd collar/neck hole area. That part is just bad design and execution. I'm guessing most bespoke makers draw the line with certain ill-advised requests if they think it will make for a bad jacket.

Superfluous said:

I see these same assertions in sports car forums. 370Z owners trash Corvettes as not being worth the price, and Corvette owners trash Porsches as not being worth the price, and Porsche owners trash Ferraris as not being worth the price, and Ferrari owners trash Bugattis as not being worth the price. What a bunch of hogwash. Buy what you like/enjoy. Haters gonna hate, but that doesn't mean you gotta be a hater. Respect those with different preferences.

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I don’t want to bash any brand or people who prefer to buy those brands. I didn’t bring Ferrari to this discussion as comparison point to Himel so I will not continue down that road any further. This is not a car forum after all.

I sure would like to take a close look at one of those bespoke Himels.

look at ferrari's manufacturing plant, or maybe should be called assembling studio, it has indoor trees, natural sunlitted, it makes other brands assembly line literally look like sweat shop including lamborghini's.

ton312 said:

This jacket is not appealing at all but I don't fault DH making it. Brother has to eat. But, if it looks poorly put together, which it does, criticism of said construction is absolutely fair play.
The buyer in this instance was not satisfied, expressed his dismay and gave his honest opinion of the product. That's what this place is about. Many if not all makers reviewed here have had to endure the same set of criticism. Himel jackets receive heightened criticism due to the brand assertion of superiority. To me the mantra of "one good thing" is the epitome of arrogance. (Not unlike LW, tho based on different criteria). It's not all lollipops and rainbows.
This jacket is an absolute waste of a lovely hide. THAT'S the real shame.

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I realize I've not posted a lot on this forum, but I've been a long timer lurker. It strikes me that the majority of the criticism of Himel jackets I've seen is that they cost more than other brands mentioned on the forum. Criticism will be along the lines of 'are they worth 2x Aero/1.5x RMC/1.25x (GW - 7 year of my life)'. I don't see a lot of product criticism of the directly ordered jackets though.

A coworker today sent me a link for a fairly standard pattern Armani jacket that cost 3x a like Himel. Custom made, highest quality materials (unclear where the Armani leather was from) and a third of the price? Himel sounds like a bargain in that context. It's great that Dave takes pride in his jackets. It feels like he set out to make the best jackets possible. Sure that's subjective but I think commendable. Wouldn't you rather your jacket maker believe they make the best jackets in the world rather than think 'meh, they're OK for the price'?

In writing this I basically talked myself into buying a Himel.... just went to the website and they're 10% higher in price. Story of my life right there!

Folks keep calling his jackets bespoke. I recall even he stating online that his process is ‘mostly’ bespoke. What does that mean, more than schott or Vanson but less than...? Seems to me it’s not bespoke but that’s just my humble opinion.

That said, I want the Chevalier and have considered hitting @Carlos840 over the head with a blunt instrument and taking his lol. Kidding. Real nice stuff.

Good friend at Vanson calls Himels stuff art, I tend to agree. But my brother is the artist in my family. I want my jackets to be a bit more purposeful, which is why I gravitate to Vanson, Bates, etc.

It’s bespoke insofar as you pick a style, hide, liner, etc. You supply your measurements and the jacket is tailored.

Oh well, I guess I will now have to place an order for measure made Himel and see how good they are.

I’m thinking Canuck with shinki leather. Anyone know how the medium brown top dyed / teacore ages?


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Lots of folks do that, to varying degrees. Some more, some less. Not quite bespoke but tomato tomatoe I guess.

Jejupe said:

I don’t want to bash any brand or people who prefer to buy those brands. I didn’t bring Ferrari to this discussion as comparison point to Himel so I will not continue down that road any further. This is not a car forum after all.

I sure would like to take a close look at one of those bespoke Himels.

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Just in case you hadn't seen this before, here is my custom Himel.
This is a full custom based on my measurements.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/himel-bros-chevalier-bis.93446/

ton312 said:

The the mantra of "one good thing" is the epitome of arrogance. (Not unlike LW, tho based on different criteria).

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The only person I'd have considered the "one good thing" line from in good taste would have been from my girlfriend now wife.
Anyways, does anyone know how the Himel/GW café racer stacks up, curious in case any pop up in a size other than 44 on GW's sale page.

I find it difficult to understand why there is an argument here. One person had an underwhelming experience with the only Himel jacket he has handled and would not personally want to risk spending a lot of money on a full priced Himel when he has had better experiences with alternative brands. On the other hand, made to order Himels are generally enjoyed by people who have not had an Orvis Himel leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Mark Ricketts said:

I find it difficult to understand why there is an argument here. One person had an underwhelming experience with the only Himel jacket he has handled and would not personally want to risk spending a lot of money on a full priced Himel when he has had better experiences with alternative brands. On the other hand, made to order Himels are generally enjoyed by people who have not had an Orvis Himel leave a bad taste in the mouth.

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Actually this one sided argument thought me something I wasnt aware before. Namely that made to order Himel's jackets are more bespoke than for example Aero, who won't usually change their fit patterns at all (apart sleeve and body length) to satisfy individual customer needs.

That helps me understand the higher price level to some extent.

Not the first time in the forum that this jacket receives terrible feedback regarding the neck hole, arms,etc.

The collaboration for whatever reason didn't bring the best product to the market.

Jejupe said:

Actually this one sided argument thought me something I wasnt aware before. Namely that made to order Himel's jackets are more bespoke than for example Aero, who won't usually change their fit patterns at all (apart sleeve and body length) to satisfy individual customer needs.

That helps me understand the higher price level to some extent.

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He's not the only one... Doesn't GW do it as well?
And I think a few other makers.

I really like my Heron. Got it used for a relatively good price. I was looking at this Orvis at one point, glad I didn't go for it. Would seriously consider a used 46 long work coat from DH.