The End of the Collector Mindset

seres said:

Pianos are hard to sell, or even give away, today. My parents had a fairly modern upright, ca. 1980, and we called and called friends and acquaintances until we FINALLY found someone to take it, FREE. So sad, as it probably cost my parents over $5000 when they bought it new, and it still looked new.

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Pianos and organs have largely been supplanted by electronic keyboards. I do remember those days when every mall had an organ shop with one of the sales people in front playing one of the organs.

seres said:

Pianos are hard to sell, or even give away, today. My parents had a fairly modern upright, ca. 1980, and we called and called friends and acquaintances until we FINALLY found someone to take it, FREE. So sad, as it probably cost my parents over $5000 when they bought it new, and it still looked new.

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Yup. This matter was brought up in another thread fairly recently. Pianos are among the things that, unless they are truly extraordinary examples, are hard to give away these days and darned nigh impossible to sell.

Ever notice all the things people would buy because they felt they had to, but never intended to use ever?
Sets of china really stand out. Who really eats on those, especially the old type that might have lead in the pattern? People who have to deal with someone leaving them a set, and after a couple of generations, people had enough sets to outfit a large company picnic! Heck, my wife and I have two complete sets, neither of which we bought, and we never use them.
Reminds me of the 'museum room' so many houses would have, where everything was perfect and you never, EVER went in there. What were the mothers of those houses waiting for, the President to come by as a surprise? Even as a kid, I never got putting time and money into something you could never use or even really appreciate.

p51 said:

Ever notice all the things people would buy because they felt they had to, but never intended to use ever?
Sets of china really stand out. Who really eats on those, especially the old type that might have lead in the pattern? People who have to deal with someone leaving them a set, and after a couple of generations, people had enough sets to outfit a large company picnic! Heck, my wife and I have two complete sets, neither of which we bought, and we never use them.
Reminds me of the 'museum room' so many houses would have, where everything was perfect and you never, EVER went in there. What were the mothers of those houses waiting for, the President to come by as a surprise? Even as a kid, I never got putting time and money into something you could never use or even really appreciate.

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I recall such a "museum" room in a since-deceased relative's house. My feelings about that align with yours.

I like my stuff, and I've given a fair amount of thought into what I surround myself with at home. But none of it is so precious that I'd suffer more than momentary distress if a piece of furniture got another ding or a lamp got knocked off a table or if one of the mutts had an "accident" on a rug.

I like to think I take reasonably good care of my stuff, and that I respect the care its previous owners took with it. But I accept that anything that gets used is bound to show signs of that use. I prefer to think of those signs as character, honestly acquired.

tonyb said:

I recall such a "museum" room in a since-deceased relative's house. My feelings about that align with yours...

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The family of one of my childhood friends had a "museum" HOUSE. The upstairs was so pristine, yet the family (including 4 children of grade-school age) all lived in the BASEMENT. The basement was almost a mirror-image of the upstairs house including a small kitchen, but with older, run-down furniture. All to keep the upstairs in "museum" condition. I think it was unique to that generation that endured the depression.

Growing up, one of my aunts had a house which would fall under the category of "museum quality" in the sense that everything
was kept pristine almost like new and everything in it's place.
I was very aware of this since my home paid homage to
"Archie Bunker".

I would often visit my aunt to play with my cousins who were the same age as me.
I enjoy the afternoons when she would treat us to a jelly sandwich and tall glass of chocolate malted milk.
The reason I mention this is that not only was the house kept very nice but my cousins never got their clothes dirty.
Which freaked me out how they were able to look nice playing cowboys and Indians while "Yours Truly", looked like "Pigpen" the moment I stepped out of the house even though I had just bathe and put on clean clothes.

"Sloppy Joe"....that's me!

p51 said:

Ever notice all the things people would buy because they felt they had to, but never intended to use ever?
Sets of china really stand out. Who really eats on those, especially the old type that might have lead in the pattern? People who have to deal with someone leaving them a set, and after a couple of generations, people had enough sets to outfit a large company picnic! Heck, my wife and I have two complete sets, neither of which we bought, and we never use them.
Reminds me of the 'museum room' so many houses would have, where everything was perfect and you never, EVER went in there. What were the mothers of those houses waiting for, the President to come by as a surprise? Even as a kid, I never got putting time and money into something you could never use or even really appreciate.

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My grandmothers both had rooms 'for good', which they rarely used day to day but which were kept for visitors, or family visits on a Saturday night, or whatever. My parents did the same for much of my childhood - and still do nowadays. I can see the attraction of having a nice reception room that you can always show a surprise visitor into, though alas as I've chosen to live in London I'll never be able to afford to have that luxury, unless the big lottery win comes in.

My folks have China that used to come out twice a year for Christmas dinner (across two days, with different sides of the family). I think it has been reduced to a display now that my mother's health means Christmas has now passed to my sister in law to run. It was an expensive wedding present somebody gave them, though these days they are hard to sell. My mother's retirement hobby has been to run a brick a brac stall at craft / collectibles sales, and she gets a lot of sets and bits of sets given her. Her typical customer for this has been the fashion vintage (cupcakes and bunting, playing at a fantasy version of fifties housewife) girls in their early twenties, but they never want a set. It all has to be carefully mismatched, hipster style.

Got a set of wineglasses, a dozen or more of them, in various shapes and sizes, as a wedding gift 18 years ago.

Maybe two or three of those glasses have been used two or three times over those 18 years. I gave up the sauce altogether a dozen years ago, and my friends who do drink are mostly the sort to take it straight from the bottle. A klassy bunch, my friends.

Also got a pair of nice cordial glasses from a truly fine fellow who passed away not long after our wedding. Those glasses have yet to be used.

So these glasses have sentimental value to me and my dewy-eyed bride. But once we're gone they'll be marked at a quarter each at a garage sale, and if they don't sell they'll get donated to St. Vincent de Paul or something.

I could easily get by with less than half the tableware in our kitchen cabinets. I have never hosted a dinner party for 30, and I'm confident I never will. And barbecues for more than half a dozen beg for paper plates and plastic utensils anyway.

I eat off plates salvaged from the basement of an abandoned lunchroom -- heavy restaurant china that lasts forever, and you can bang it around or drop it with few consequences. When my mother gave me my grandmother's "good dishes" a few years ago, they felt so delicate and flimsy that I'm afraid to do anything with them but stack them in the cupboard. I've used them maybe twice since I've had them, and the food didn't taste any better. So I imagine they'll end up going the way of all crockery when I make my final exit.

I'm leaving my house, or at least what there is of it, to one of the kids from work when I go, and I've told her to feel free to do whatever she wants with what's inside at the time of my passing: keep it, toss it, sell it on eBay, whatever. One of the other kids has expressed interest in some of my books, and she's welcome to them, and can do what she likes with the rest of it. I'll be beyond caring, and there's nobody else who would care one way or another.

seres said:

The family of one of my childhood friends had a "museum" HOUSE. The upstairs was so pristine, yet the family (including 4 children of grade-school age) all lived in the BASEMENT. The basement was almost a mirror-image of the upstairs house including a small kitchen, but with older, run-down furniture. All to keep the upstairs in "museum" condition. I think it was unique to that generation that endured the depression.

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When I was a kid, this was quite common in my neighborhood, but only in families where the parents came from 'the old country,' Italy in particular (in my experience). The timeline does coincide with these folks who lived as young adults through lean times in Europe, around and after WWII.

Many of the Bohemians, (as in Czech) had perfect front rooms too, in Berwyn and Cicero Illinois. They mostly lived in kitchens and ba

LizzieMaine said:

I eat off plates salvaged from the basement of an abandoned lunchroom -- heavy restaurant china that lasts forever, and you can bang it around or drop it with few consequences. When my mother gave me my grandmother's "good dishes" a few years ago, they felt so delicate and flimsy that I'm afraid to do anything with them but stack them in the cupboard. I've used them maybe twice since I've had them, and the food didn't taste any better. So I imagine they'll end up going the way of all crockery when I make my final exit.

I'm leaving my house, or at least what there is of it, to one of the kids from work when I go, and I've told her to feel free to do whatever she wants with what's inside at the time of my passing: keep it, toss it, sell it on eBay, whatever. One of the other kids has expressed interest in some of my books, and she's welcome to them, and can do what she likes with the rest of it. I'll be beyond caring, and there's nobody else who would care one way or another.

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I have a few plates and bowls I bought off the proprietor of a little breakfast-and-lunch cafe that was going out of business. Off-white with a blue stripe near the rim. We've all seen examples of the same or similar many times. Paid a buck apiece for them. The surface glaze gets dulled by little scratches (same thing happens with commercial glassware, which leaves it looking cloudy even when it's perfectly clean), but you almost gotta try to break it, or even chip it.

One of dh's aunts has lived in her home for 20+ years, but her living room has never had anyone actually sit in it. She admits that it's only ever entered into when she does the weekly dusting and vacuuming. Personally, I don't understand it.

Those who pay attention to trends will tell you that the day of the "living room" is over -- with so many ways to consume entertainment that don't involve sitting in an overstuffed chair, there's less and less call for, or interest in, specific rooms set aside for such purposes. Nowadays the kitchen, with its repurposed granite island and its professional-grade stainless steel double oven and its cheffy implements tastefully hanging from the exposed beams, is the room where family and social gatherings converge in the on-trend home.

I actually don't use my living room all that much. I flop on the couch occasionally to listen to the radio, but more often than not I do that upstairs in bed or sitting in my office. I think the cat spends more time in the living room than I do, and she gets sore if I sit in her chair. And I use the kitchen as a workroom for sewing or other tabletop projects.

My parents both came from families that were poor in the Depression and had only modestly recovered (my father's pretty much had, my mother's immediate family - not so much) by the time they got married in the late '50s. I think - surprisingly - it was my mother's side that bought them a ridiculously expensive set of dishes - Lenox "gold rim" bone china - that had to be a pooled gift from all of her relatives.

They gave my parents twelve sets (is that what each place setting is called?) with all the extras - I think there was a bit of a "make up" gesture going on as my mother had so little growing up even versus some of the other kids in the family writ large. The stuff was stored in original quilted zip-closed pouches and, to my memory, only came out once or twice in the 16 years I lived in my parent's home. Yet, it moved with her after my dad died and she retired to Phoenix. And now, almost 60 years after their wedding and probably having been used no more than three or four times, all of it sits in her condo's basement storage unit still in their quilted pouches.

Many years ago, in a solemn tone, my mom told me she was leaving them to me when she died. Trying to balance respect for her with my hair-trigger sarcasm, I asked her what she wanted me to do with them. She said something like "enjoy and treasure them."

Okay, over the years, she brought them up again several times, with - at some point - sarcasm finally winning out and me telling her to use them (a horrified expression appeared on her face) or sell them which is what I planned to do as I have none, zero, not any use for them.

By now, I don't even think she cares that much as I have repeatedly told her I'd sell them for her and she could use the money for something fun for herself. Instead, she's told me to sell them when she's gone and enjoy the money. Okay, I get it, she can't sell them but, at least, is okay with me doing so. So, give or take, a quarter of a century after we first discussed "the dishes," we are all in a good place. God, that was exhausting. As my whip-smart grandmother from my father's side always said: "possessions possess."

Writing this prompted me to do a cursory search to see what they are worth - I did that years ago when I tried to get my mother to let me sell them for her so that she could have the money - and, surprisingly, they are still worth something. It's hard to tell until you have the pieces in front of you, do the preliminary work (what is your exact model, sets versus pieces - who knows, twelve complete place settings plus the extra stuff might have value as one "big" sale...or not), but my guess is there's $2,000 - $5,000 there. Not small money, but also, no Lear jet to Paris for lunch. A lot of angst and effort for some dishes.

LizzieMaine said:

Those who pay attention to trends will tell you that the day of the "living room" is over -- with so many ways to consume entertainment that don't involve sitting in an overstuffed chair, there's less and less call for, or interest in, specific rooms set aside for such purposes. Nowadays the kitchen, with its repurposed granite island and its professional-grade stainless steel double oven and its cheffy implements tastefully hanging from the exposed beams, is the room where family and social gatherings converge in the on-trend home.

I actually don't use my living room all that much. I flop on the couch occasionally to listen to the radio, but more often than not I do that upstairs in bed or sitting in my office. I think the cat spends more time in the living room than I do, and she gets sore if I sit in her chair. And I use the kitchen as a workroom for sewing or other tabletop projects.

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I'm okay with open-concept floor plans and kitchen islands the size of Polynesian islands and all that other on-trend stuff to which you allude, provided a perfectly pleasant and presentable older structure isn't mutilated beyond recognition in the process.

My instinct is toward architectural preservation. I've made contributions to the National Trust for Historic Preservation and I'm happy to drive out of my way to see an interesting "vintage" or older structure that has survived more or less unmolested.

Still, in almost but not quite all cases I respect the rights of property owners to perform whatever abominations on their houses they wish. But I would remind them that the new cabinets and flooring (and floor plan itself, in many cases) with which they are replacing all that "dated" original stuff will itself be dated before long.

I listen to a podcast given over mostly to mid-20th century American residential architecture. One episode featured a fellow who told of a district chock full of fine examples of such houses and how the "flipper" types came in and dumped six-figure sums into some of those places to "update" them and put them back on the market. And how they didn't do nearly as well as the investors there whose efforts would more accurately be called restoration rather than remodeling. And the people in the latter category spent a helluva lot less money.

"Flippers" should be hung up by their ankles from the crossbeam of a vacuformed plastic imitation Victorian lamppost.

My town has extremely old housing stock -- the vast majority of all the housing here was built before WWII, and a very large percentage of that predates WWI. And it's very rare to find one that hasn't had every bit of internal character ripped out of it by real-estate-flipping parasites. The only reason my house didn't suffer such a fate is because it was on the same street as a meth lab and bordered a junkyard -- but now that those factors have been expunged I see the Home Depot trucks backing up in front of a lot of my neighbors' places. I fear the future.

I can remember the days when you bought a house to live in it, not to spend all your time and money worrying about its resale value. Bah.

LizzieMaine said:

"Flippers" should be hung up by their ankles from the crossbeam of a vacuformed plastic imitation Victorian lamppost.

My town has extremely old housing stock -- the vast majority of all the housing here was built before WWII, and a very large percentage of that predates WWI. And it's very rare to find one that hasn't had every bit of internal character ripped out of it by real-estate-flipping parasites. The only reason my house didn't suffer such a fate is because it was on the same street as a meth lab and bordered a junkyard -- but now that those factors have been expunged I see the Home Depot trucks backing up in front of a lot of my neighbors' places. I fear the future.

I can remember the days when you bought a house to live in it, not to spend all your time and money worrying about its resale value. Bah.

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Most all of the cabinets, flooring, etc. in those big-box stores -- Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. -- is what is usually called "builder grade" or "contractor grade," which has a more polite ring than "crap."

When we last went house shopping a real estate agent showed us a place where every visible interior surface -- flooring, doors, cabinets, counters, etc. -- was contractor grade stuff, fresh from Home Depot. That's been nearly three years ago now. I'm willing to wager that those cabinets are getting wobbly and the floors have visible paths and those hollow doors have a hole or two in 'em.

LizzieMaine said:

Those who pay attention to trends will tell you that the day of the "living room" is over -- with so many ways to consume entertainment that don't involve sitting in an overstuffed chair, there's less and less call for, or interest in, specific rooms set aside for such purposes. Nowadays the kitchen, with its repurposed granite island and its professional-grade stainless steel double oven and its cheffy implements tastefully hanging from the exposed beams, is the room where family and social gatherings converge in the on-trend home.

I actually don't use my living room all that much. I flop on the couch occasionally to listen to the radio, but more often than not I do that upstairs in bed or sitting in my office. I think the cat spends more time in the living room than I do, and she gets sore if I sit in her chair. And I use the kitchen as a workroom for sewing or other tabletop projects.

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I think this makes sense. A friend in Belfast who has a fairly large house often hosts social gatherings, and these invariably end up centred on the kitchen (largely that's where the booze is....). Smaller gatherings, especially those which involve the television, tend to their front room. I've never been keen on the idea of total open plan, though if I had a 'good' room for visitors and a big enough kitchen for a sofa and lounging area, I'd be perfectly happy in the kitchen most of the time.

I've never personally lived in a house that had both living and family rooms. My 84 year old aunt is about to sell her home of 45 years to move to an assisted living facility and, she too, has a formal living room that's rarely been used. For some reason she put white carpet and white furniture in it, so you only ever saw it when you walked through the front door going to the family room (she has runners down to protect the white carpet). I'm at an age where the less cleaning I have to do the better. One small living room is more than enough for me.