So I Found These Pants Today

Michael A · Jun 9, 2018

DSCN1967 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
My question, the age? A few points: no belt loops, exterior suspender buttons, hand felling, apparently made in France for Sigrand & Cie, narrow legs, 15" at hem, long button fly.

DSCN1937 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1934 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1935 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1941 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1939 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1968 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1969 by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN1954 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael

MondoFW · Jun 9, 2018

Interesting find. They look very Edwardian, that's all I can add. Lack of belt loops and the suspender buttons would indicate they're very early pants, unless this is some top-tier repro.

Michael A · Jun 10, 2018

They aren't repros. I agree they have an Edwardian feel or even Victorian. All I can find on the department store Sigrand are some catalog scans from the 20s thru the 30s. And I'm not sure they are the same as Sigrand & Cie. I have no experience dating clothes this old. Another idea I've been considering is how did French pants end up in the middle of Iowa. One route would have been with a returning WWI veteran. So my wild guess is that they are from between 1918 and the early 1920s.

Thanks,
Michael

Mean Eyed Matt · Jun 12, 2018

Looks like the typical trousers that go with a frock coat.
From my point of view, it is difficult to classify them more precisely in terms of time, as they have been tailored according to the same pattern for a long time. I would guess 1900/10 to mid-20s - so Edwardian still fits. Interesting that they do not have the usual adjustable belt for width adjustment at the back.

hatsRme · Jun 12, 2018

Where is @Dinerman on this question?!

Michael A · Jun 14, 2018

Mean Eyed Matt said:
Looks like the typical trousers that go with a frock coat.
From my point of view, it is difficult to classify them more precisely in terms of time, as they have been tailored according to the same pattern for a long time. I would guess 1900/10 to mid-20s - so Edwardian still fits. Interesting that they do not have the usual adjustable belt for width adjustment at the back.

Dang, you mean now I'm going to have to find a frock coat to wear them? Ha ha. I was surprised by the lack of waist adjustment, too. And they are cut very trim in the waist for the size of the seat. I was amazed to find them in the thrift store, and with the sharp creases still in them.

Thanks,
Michael

MondoFW · Jun 15, 2018

Michael A said:
Dang, you mean now I'm going to have to find a frock coat to wear them? Ha ha. I was surprised by the lack of waist adjustment, too. And they are cut very trim in the waist for the size of the seat. I was amazed to find them in the thrift store, and with the sharp creases still in them.

Thanks,
Michael

Dont forget to send us a pic of the full ensemble

This is a pretty damn good score, Edwardian trousers in a store in...Iowa. It's bizarre how vintage stuff gets shifted to their polar opposite environments--I've heard New York City shops garner a lot of vintage Western gear, how ironic

Mean Eyed Matt · Jun 16, 2018

I would like to see this full-ensemble-picture, too!

Seb Lucas · Jun 20, 2018

Nice condition. Could they be part of a uniform, perhaps - an hotel or some other classy joint? I imagine some venues had uniforms that were unchanging for many years.

Michael A · Jul 6, 2018

Sadly, no morning coat or top hat in my closet, but I did come up with this old Lockley to try with the pants.

DSCN2772 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
And a couple of different old hats

DSCN2773 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN2774 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN2771 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr

DSCN2780 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
Have fun, it's Friday,
Michael

MondoFW · Jul 6, 2018

Michael A said:
Sadly, no morning coat or top hat in my closet, but I did come up with this old Lockley to try with the pants.
DSCN2772 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
And a couple of different old hats
DSCN2773 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2774 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2771 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2780 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
Have fun, it's Friday,
Michael

Wunderbar! My favorite outfit I've seen from you. Did you go out in this neo-victorian style?

AbbaDatDeHat · Jul 6, 2018

Michael A said:
Sadly, no morning coat or top hat in my closet, but I did come up with this old Lockley to try with the pants.
DSCN2772 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
And a couple of different old hats
DSCN2773 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2774 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2771 crop by Michael A2012, on Flickr
DSCN2780 by Michael A2012, on Flickr
Have fun, it's Friday,
Michael

Cane and a Topper Michael...cane and a Topper!
B
Ps: then you will look like the guy for Mr. Disney Hats. Cool!

Michael A · Jul 6, 2018

MondoFW said:
Wunderbar! My favorite outfit I've seen from you. Did you go out in this neo-victorian style?

No, it got too warm after an hour or two today. It will come out sometime this autumn. I'm not sure how old the coat is. It was made or sold by Lockley in London. A lot of handwork is apparent in it. The silk grosgrain lapels need replacement, but the wool is in very good shape.

AbbaDatDeHat said:
Cane and a Topper Michael...cane and a Topper!
B
Ps: then you will look like the guy for Mr. Disney Hats. Cool!

You're right, Bowen. I need a cane and a topper. And a few of Mr Disney's hats.

Thanks,
Michael

Dirk Wainscotting · Jul 9, 2018

I'm going to tentatively put them at the late '50s, but using an older tried-and-true drafting system (rear darts not at centre-line, finishing on the side pockets are all standard details for trousers of the 1930s and earlier). There is a lot of visible machine work, so that is either a sign that they are later or that they were made with a eye on cost; this makes me agree with Seb Lucas that they could have been waiter's trousers?
The slide fastener is probably a replacement, but that's not unusual.

So I Found These Pants Today

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