Buco JH-1

I wonder... if shinki leather is so exclusive and only certain makers can have access to it. Why is it that a maker who doesn't seem to aim for perfection is allowed to purchase it?

Isn't that bad for the reputation of such unique leather?

I have no idea of how good or how bad DD is but always have heard bad things about it.

These are both really nice man! The RMC blows the DD out of the water imho. Just everything is better. I can't see why he'd let that belt loop past QC. Bad for the brand. I agree tho. It's kind of a butter face of a jacket. Either way you wear them both to the nuts as usual. I can't imagine your girl isn't raising eyebrows at your collection yet. You best never mention her shoes...

willyto said:

I wonder... if shinki leather is so exclusive and only certain makers can have access to it. Why is it that a maker who doesn't seem to aim for perfection is allowed to purchase it?

Isn't that bad for the reputation of such unique leather?

Click to expand...

Shinki is neither particularly unique or exclusive - or rather, not more so than Horween. It's just the way how this tannery produces leather. Granted, it does take them longer to produce a certain type of Shinki horsehide but that's not the one most commonly used by most jacket makers.
It's not a particularly old tannery either, especially compared to some other. The whole exclusivity deal has been a bit blown out of proportions. It's a business, just like any other. They make a very nice leather, though.

Anyway, problem is, DD himself admitted he's still a beginner, practicing the art of tailoring. Which by itself wouldn't be such a big deal if he wasn't charging a premium for his jackets.

Monitor said:

Overall, I like the DD jacket. Don't think it fits nearly as good as the RMC but it is a very nice jacket in itself. Very nice leather, hardware... But some of those errors, though... Man, that's borderline damage. I mean, the stitching in general looks nice but that cut on the belt loop would have me extremely upset if it was my jacket. I don't see how he/they figured that jacket's good enough to leave for the customer in such a condition. That's a factory third, not a second.

Almost looks as if the belt loops were installed by someone else who's far less skilled at machining.

The kidney panel appears to be uneven as well, longer at the bottom left corner but it could just be the angle of the photo.

But I like it nonetheless.

RMC is just perfect. Fits you better

Click to expand...

My thoughts equal Monitor's to a T. Exactly what I thought when I first read your post Carlos. All I will add is that I do like the colour of the DD a lot.

The color of the DD is fantastic and I much prefer the length to that of the RMC.

There's something particularly lovely about the simplicity of that RMC. The distinctive belt is unusual (and - put to its original purpose, much less likely to scratch the tank if you lean over it than what you normally see on American style bike jackets). I particularly like the simplicity of the pockets. For all I love a great Buco style D pocket, there's something also that has always attracted me to a jacket like the one Johnny Depp wore in Cry Baby - basically a Perfecto style, but with shiny brass hardware and only two handwarmer pockets - no exterior chest or coin/ticket/lighter pocket.

willyto said:

I wonder... if shinki leather is so exclusive and only certain makers can have access to it. Why is it that a maker who doesn't seem to aim for perfection is allowed to purchase it?

Isn't that bad for the reputation of such unique leather?

I have no idea of how good or how bad DD is but always have heard bad things about it.

Click to expand...

I don't wish to comment on DD as I have never handled one directly, but on the matter of Shinki, my understanding is that it's a quantity thing. I'm open to correction here, but what I heard down the grapevine was that Aero considered using it (pre-Vicenza) as it was beginning to get Horween-level buzz, but ultimately they found that Shinki couldn't produce the sort of quantity they would have required. If that's so, then it would make sense that smaller makers who aren't putting out as many units as Aero might would be happy with the level of supply that is possible. Matter of commercial reality.

ton312 said:

I can't imagine your girl isn't raising eyebrows at your collection yet. You best never mention her shoes...

Click to expand...

I'm always amused when I hear folks saying this - because in our household that gendered assumption doesn't hold true. Herself has, I think, maybe five pairs of shoes - four of which I bought her - while I have, at the last count, seventy. That she knows of. (all leather shoes and boots; I think I have one pair of canvas plimsoles, but I don't wear sneakers at all). Granted, these are due a serious cull, but even in half, I'm still well ahead...

Monitor said:

Shinki is neither particularly unique or exclusive - or rather, not more so than Horween. It's just the way how this tannery produces leather. Granted, it does take them longer to produce a certain type of Shinki horsehide but that's not the one most commonly used by most jacket makers.
It's not a particularly old tannery either, especially compared to some other. The whole exclusivity deal has been a bit blown out of proportions. It's a business, just like any other. They make a very nice leather, though.

Click to expand...

That's always been my position. Shinki is certainly nice, but I've never felt it rated over vicenza or anything Horween do, all other things being equal. That's not to say anyone who prefers Shinki is wrong, more that it really is a matter of personal preference rather than objective quality. If what I heard is correct, that it's produced in small quantities, that would certainly help create the perception of 'exclusivity'.

Anyway, problem is, DD himself admitted he's still a beginner, practicing the art of tailoring. Which by itself wouldn't be such a big deal if he wasn't charging a premium for his jackets.

Click to expand...

Again, not commenting directly on DD, but in general it must be a hard industry to break into as a sole trader - I can well imagine that an individual might be able to produce a jacket on a par with, say Schott, but have to charge double the retail because of the lack of economies of scale, increased manhours and so on. Years ago I go a wild notion in my head about building and selling my own solid-body electric guitars from pre-made bits (Fender style - my preference as a player as well), but when I looked at it out of curiosity, in order to even make minimum wage doing it alone, I'd have to charge about double the price of the equivalent Fender, with the only difference being the intangible of "hand built by one guy".

TBH, I'm surprised, given that there are limits to our niche market in high end leather jackets, that there are still as many of the brands in operation now. It must be a hard market to break into.

Edward said:

That's always been my position. Shinki is certainly nice, but I've never felt it rated over vicenza or anything Horween do, all other things being equal. That's not to say anyone who prefers Shinki is wrong, more that it really is a matter of personal preference rather than objective quality. If what I heard is correct, that it's produced in small quantities, that would certainly help create the perception of 'exclusivity'.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying Shinki shouldn't be considered the nicest leather on the market because it undoubtedly is a top shelf, premium leather that does takes a lot of costly time to be produced but... Just not particularly moreso than some other options.

Take for example proprietary Lost World Horsehide. You'd have a really tough time finding leather of matching resilience and weight and if it's really true they're tanning their hides in-house, that'd make it a lot more exclusive than Shinki. Same goes for Langlitz and their heavyweight cowhide (that they can't even source anymore). Still, many, if not all makers working in Shinki charge more for their jackets and yet, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of it on the market. Especially considering how many Japanese companies work with it. Chinese too as of recently, I believe.

I don't recall anyone claiming that Shinki was an "exclusive" leather. It is less common than certain other leathers because: (1) the manufacturing costs and corresponding wholesale pricing are higher than most other HHs; and (2) it is not readily available in large and consistent volumes. The pricing and small/irregular volume are both a function of the lengthy production process. Shinki takes 6+ months to tan its hides, whereas other tanneries can tan a hide in 24 hours. A 6+ month tanning process is wildly inefficient and dramatically limits the volume of hides that Shinki can produce.

Horween produces exponentially more leather than Shinki. Given its vastly greater volume and associated economy of scale, Horween can charge less for its leather. I am not knocking Horween. To the contrary, Horween has succeeded at producing high quality leather in large volumes. That is no easy task and Horween deserves much praise. In order to accomplish this volume, Horween has necessarily disregarded certain production methods that are either too inefficient or too costly to fit their business model. Conversely, Shinki has retained certain of these inefficient and/or costly production methods. Neither approach is correct or better. They are just different.

Monitor said:

Still, many, if not all makers working in Shinki charge more for their jackets and yet, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of it on the market. Especially considering how many Japanese companies work with it. Chinese too as of recently, I believe.

Click to expand...

See above. If the leather costs more to purchase wholesale, it is no surprise that the jackets made from the more expensive leather retail for higher prices.

Also, only a few Japanese companies use Shinki HH (Real McCoys, Freewheelers, Rainbow Country and The Flat Head -- perhaps one or two others), but these companies produce very few jackets per year compared to a company like Aero. Moreover, I am told that Real McCoys has some sort of arrangement with Shinki that ensures their supply. For others, Shinki is not readily available in consistent volumes. Both Himel and Chapman have separately told me that, notwithstanding their long term patronage of Shinki, they still endure irregular deliveries and volume.

Anyone who has been around this community for any period of time quickly realizes that there is no undisputed "best" HH. Rather, there are only personal preferences. Based on its robust yet pliable weight and corresponding drape, top notch old world tanning and manufacturing process, and uncorrected grain, Shinki remains my favorite. That said, it certainly is not ideal for some here that seek substantially different qualities in their leather.

This Diamond Dave Buco always was a favorite when posted here or my youtube channel. I thought it was a great jacket. No where near the cost of the RMC Buco.

The RMC Buco are a better jacket no doubt.

This guy sure gota lot of love though.

I think the DD fits oddly on you, it's wide and narrow at weird places, especially compared to the fit photos in your database thread (which by the way is very useful, because your fits are usually close to perfect)

From my short time on the forum DD seems to be hit or miss, for example the Buco @tmitchell59 just posted is quote spectacular.

I have considered ordering from him, but I don't like crap shoots, especially when it's that much money.

Great stuff, Carlos! Love that RMC jacket.

I once owned a DD jacket... sold that one. I still have my RMC jacket. The reasons are very clear.

It's funny. This echoes a discussion that was had a few years back. People were very anti-RMC at the time and saying DD was good for the price. How things have changed for the better since then...

Love the buffalo plaid with black leather..!

I’d be mightily pleased with either. The DD looks a little better zipped up, and I agreee that the RMC just looks a little more suave. But they both have nice characteristics; please keep both. Your collection rocks!

lina said:

Love the buffalo plaid with black leather..!

Click to expand...

Me too...