New Member Question: Lost Hat

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

Greetings to all. This is my first post, but I've been lurking awhile. A very nice site and forum.

My question is in regards to the value of a vintage Dobbs Twenty fedora.

My sad tale, so far, is this:

I sent my late grandfathers Dobbs Twenty to an out of state hat cleaning/repair service shop, and apparently they have lost it. The owner says he will make it right for me, whatever that means. In the meantime, I am curious what the value of such a hat would be. I can't even begin to try and place a dollar value on the sentimentality of the hat. I think that would be impossible.

I'm hoping that the shop will be able to track down, and return the hat, but for now I am just planning ahead in case the hat turns up lost for good.

Anyone have a ball park figure as to value?

Thanks,

Scott

feltfan · Feb 2, 2007

Sorry to hear it, Scott.

Of course there is no way to put a value on a hat
that belonged to your grandfather. For that they
should compensate something.

To put a replacement value on a vintage hat, we'd
need to see photographs or at least know around what
year the hat came from and what its size and dimensions are.
A Dobbs Twenty from, say, the 1940s, could be a very
nice hat indeed. If it's a larger size and has a nice tall
crown and wide brim, it would fetch a nice price on
eBay. The right one at the right time could certainly
get $200. A 1960s Dobbs Twenty in an unpopular style
might only bring $9.

If you have pictures, please post. If you don't, a good place
to start would be auctions that have "completed" on eBay for
Dobbs Twenty. Good luck.

Lady Blue · Feb 2, 2007

I am so sorry to read this. Its tragic to lose a family heirloom. May I ask the name of the hat company you sent it to?

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

Lady Blue said:
I am so sorry to read this. Its tragic to lose a family heirloom. May I ask the name of the hat company you sent it to?

If only for a second I'd considered that this could have happened I would have taken some pictures, but I didn't.

As far as the name of the company, I'm going to call them tomorrow and pin them down on the status of my hat. They've had a week to locate it.

I won't name them yet. I am a patient and forgiving man and will give them a good solid chance to return my hat. But if they fail to do so, I will consider revealing the store. I hate to ruin their reputation, but I also hate that they have abused my trust of them as well. I'm quite sure that it was a very unintentional mistake, but I still find it unacceptable.

Scott

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

Here is a photo of three other hats once belonging to my grandfather. The hat at the far left is a Cavanaugh and looks very similar to the Dobbs I am missing although the Dobbs is a lighter tan. The middle hat is a Mossant and the dark brown hat is a Resistol xxx beaver. BTW, does this site allow attachments uploaded directly from ones PC?

Also, I called the shop again and the owner is insisting that the imposter hat he returned to me is my Dobbs hat. I keep telling him he is mistaken. In fact the hat I sent him fit me. The hat he returned, different color and quality aside, does not. Very frustrating.

Scott

Orgetorix · Feb 2, 2007

Scott said:
BTW, does this site allow attachments uploaded directly from ones PC?

No, in order to post images you have to host them elsewhere and link to them in your posts. The only exception are avatars, which are stored on the FL's servers.

Imageshack.us and photobucket.com provide free image hosting.

feltfan · Feb 2, 2007

Scott said:
Also, I called the shop again and the owner is insisting that the imposter hat he returned to me is my Dobbs hat. I keep telling him he is mistaken. In fact the hat I sent him fit me. The hat he returned, different color and quality aside, does not. Very frustrating.

Scott, those are some top quality hats.
Didn't realize he had sent you a hat and it
was the wrong one. That's particularly bad-
it probably means another customer has your
hat! Not impressive customer service.

If the shop is somehow involved in this site,
it could be useful to explain that you will be posting
your complete experience with them if you don't get
your darn hat back. We have been known to be very
noisey when members get ripped off.

RedPop4 · Feb 2, 2007

Involved in TFL or not, they'll not want to be "outed" on here. With the dearth of quality hatters, there is still a fair amount of business for a good hatter, and word-of-mouth is critical to these guys to establish clientele and credibility.

I hate to bring up what we do on the cigar site, but I'll do it anyway, as I think it's a particularly sound policy. And it's a policy that gets us lambasted at other sites where guys make all kinds of outrageous accusations and smear retailers and other members all the time. We get called scammers, ourselves, scumbags, harboring scumbags and cheaters all because we demand proof and don't allow witch hunts. YMMV.

We don't simply allow people to come in and say _____________ seller is a scammer, ripoff artist...or whatever We insist that, if you want to "out" a scammer or bad retailer, you bring documentary evidence. That means your story, your bills if you have them, e-mails, etc. Solid proof.

I suggest you do that here, whatever solid proof you have, present it in a matter-of-fact way to make your case. Photos of the hat would have helped tremendously.

However, I'm but a humble poster.

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

I'm getting close to that point, revealing the shop. Possibly when I do, it will be recognized as a shop with a bad reputation. I don't know.

The owner requested that I send in photos of the three hats I showed in my previous post. These hats were also in his shop and fortunately returned.

The Dobbs was sent as an afterthought. After initially sending in those three hats to be resized, I told the owner that I had another, the Dobbs, which actually fit. He suggested that I send it to him to use as a guide to size the others. So I did. After I confirmed that the hat had arrived through the USPS, I called him to verbally confirm he had the hat. He said he did, in fact he said he was wearing the hat as we spoke!

I suppose he wanted to see the photos of the three others to jog his memory?

Update: He's called back while I'm writting this post and he is confirming now that he has made a mistake and somehow the hats were switched. I'll post an update to this later.

Scott

RedPop4 · Feb 2, 2007

Nice to hear, that's certainly a welcome development.

The same applies, if you're pleased with his work tell us why and then give him his proper accolade.

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

Well the owner has fessed up to making a mistake, but still doesn't know the whereabouts of the hat. He has at least confirmed that they owe me one Dobbs Twenty hat. I am partially relieved for that.

He's suggesting that the mixup occured in sending hats to the dry cleaners they use. He's contacted them, but so far no discovery of the Dobbs. He wants me to give him 10 more days and I will.

I'm still not convinced that just any replacement hat, no matter the quality or price, will be sufficient to replace my family heirloom. I'll give him his 10 days and then cross that bridge.

Also, just so my unfortunate introduction to this group isn't seen as a whinning or gripe session, maybe it can be used, at my expense, as a lesson to others who may consider sending out their fine hats, or any other valuables, for service. I thought I'd already learned better. Just goes to show how dangerous complacency can be

Anyways, thanks for all the supportive comments and hat info. Much appreciated.

Scott

P.S. - I was just thinking, after all of this aggravation, even if my hat is returned, and the work done is good quality, would I ever want to send a hat back to this shop?? Would any of you? I'm not so sure I would. Although, after this, they will probably be extra carefull.

RedPop4 · Feb 2, 2007

Human beings are imperfect.

You are right, it doesn't look great that this is your first thread and series of posts. Some will infer that maybe you have an agenda. Some won't.
Again, this is just me talking, thinking out loud. No offense is intended.

Samsa · Feb 2, 2007

RedPop4 said:
You are right, it doesn't look great that this is your first thread and series of posts. Some will infer that maybe you have an agenda. Some won't.
Again, this is just me talking, thinking out loud. No offense is intended.

This did not even cross my mind until just now. I very much doubt there was an agenda involved in this thread.

RedPop4 · Feb 2, 2007

I'm jaded, I guess, Samsa. I've seen this so many times before, as I stated.
I'm not THAT convinced of it, however. I was very precise in my wording so as not to throw out a false accusation whilst still conveying what I've experienced on previous occasions.

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

No, no agenda. Like I mentioned before, I've been lurking here for awhile then this happened. I felt a sense of urgency to do something about it. I thought getting some valuation info, just in case, might turn out useful. I figured this forum was the best place to turn and did so posthaste.

If I'd had an agenda, I'd have already trashed the hat shop by now. [huh]

RBH · Feb 2, 2007

Scott I think you did right.
All I can add is I hope you can get "your" hat back.
Good luck...

Chanfan · Feb 2, 2007

RedPop4 said:
Human beings are imperfect.

Too true there. It is also human tendency to not trust a retailer after a mistake like this, especially if there are many alternatives. It certainly would be prudent to check them out (here - after it is resolved, BBB, etc.) to see if it's an aberration or a pattern. They are but human, and mistakes happen - what's important is how they deal with making it good, or if this is not unusual for them.

Pilgrim · Feb 2, 2007

It seems to me that the shop hasn't yet had enough time to investigate the whereabouts of the Dobbs, but they are communicating (a point in their favor) and have agreed that they need to make this right (also a point in their favor). I'm in agreement with Scott that they need more time, and I think it's appropriate that he's going to give them a few more days.

One thing I noted in his earlier post is that they sent the hat out to 'a dry cleaner". I don't think that ANY of us on thos forum would want to work with a shop that sent hats out to a run of the mill dry cleaner; we would want that shop to do the work in-house or have a trusted cleaner who includes hats in their special skills. The phrase Scott used (assuming it's an accurate quote) gives me some concern as to the care they exercise in hat cleaning.

Any one else notice this and react in similar fashion?

feltfan · Feb 3, 2007

Pilgrim said:
One thing I noted in his earlier post is that they sent the hat out to 'a dry cleaner". I don't think that ANY of us on thos forum would want to work with a shop that sent hats out to a run of the mill dry cleaner; we would want that shop to do the work in-house or have a trusted cleaner who includes hats in their special skills. The phrase Scott used (assuming it's an accurate quote) gives me some concern as to the care they exercise in hat cleaning.

Any one else notice this and react in similar fashion?

Yes, I cringed.

Now some dry cleaners are equipped to do
proper hat cleaning. Fewer than there used to be,
of course. And some could simply put the hat in a
naphtha bath and send it back. Keep in mind that Scott already
got 3 hats back from this guy and hasn't noted a problem with them,
so hopefully they're not pressing those hats in a pants press.

Hang in there Scott- hopefully they'll figure it out.

Scott · Feb 17, 2007

Missing: One light tan/beige Dobbs fedora, size 7 1/2, wide black grosgrain hatband with kickback? bow, small greenish/blue stain at top rear of crown, approx 5" crown, approx 2" cav edge brim. Sent to Mike The Hatter, Cleveland Ohio for cleaning and new sweatband early January 2007.

If you, or someone you know, sent any hats to Mike The Hatter around the same time, it may have been switched for my hat.

If you have any information, please contact me:

Scott, scottandyvonne@verizon.net

Thank you.

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