Horween or Shinki- Whose horse is your pick?

Milesdeathescape · Sep 26, 2018

ton312 said:
I'll see your Shinki and raise you 8lbs....one day old:

But yeah Shinki is no doubt a very nice mid weight hide....

It’s by no means mid weight. It’s the heaviest HH Available. You just have to see one in person. You would think differently by the creases in a photo but this is heavy HH. It just happens to crease and form better than other hides. Here’s my back day one.

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Monitor · Sep 26, 2018

Milesdeathescape said:
Actually Shinki is far more limited than Horween. Only a select amount is made per year and some cordovan hides taking up to a year to cure at the factory. The Real McCoys, Freewheelers and Flat Head have first pick each year as each of these jackets are hand selected hides.

Fairy tale.

What I've said before; Shinki (Hikaku) is the name of a company, it's NOT a specific type of leather. There are at least a dozen different types of hides that Shinki produces - not just one. Premium Shinki hides are as limited as premium Horween hides. Horween also makes an extremely limited batch of veg tanned leather for special purposes. Anyway, some Shinki made hides are cheaper, some are pricier. Some are more limited than the others, which is what some of those companies get to pick from first but with at least 30 or more makers in Japan working with Shinki, not to mention the growing industry in USA, China and possibly elsewhere, there's certainly enough Shinki manufactured leather to cover the entire market.

Shinki is a very fine, high end tannery but it's still just a high end tannery. What's not nice is the bs story the internet has been serving people up about it being the "best leather in the world" without any substantial evidence. It's as good as any other premium hide and (only) as beautiful as you find it to be. Shinki has been tanning leather since the 60's. Horween's been at it for more than a 110 years. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and think we're onto something special just because we paid more for a leather jacket.

Leather jacket in an even more limited Horween veg tanned leather.

ton312 · Sep 26, 2018

Milesdeathescape said:
It’s by no means mid weight. It’s the heaviest HH Available. You just have to see one in person. You would think differently by the creases in a photo but this is heavy HH. It just happens to crease and form better than other hides. Here’s my back day one.

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The shinki jackets I've handled were around 4-5lbs... it certainly is not the lightest but it is by no means as heavy as CXL or LW's HH. I would say it's right around vicenza or the stuff that Thedi uses (perhaps a bit heavier than those two). The shinki HH Ventura I had a brief run in with weighed exactly 4lbs...The Himmels probably around 5lbs. RMC railcoat wasn't fully made from Shinki so it's hard to say but the panels felt to be around 2.5-3oz max. I suppose it's possible things have changed...

Sloan1874 · Sep 26, 2018

Some extra thoughts: John C is currently favouring Italian HH for his jackets as the shinki he's been getting has something of a 'sprayed on' finish to it, that scratches and chips rather than develops wear and tear. Shinki seem to be a bit of a law unto themselves as to the sort of hides they send out, while Horween are by all accounts seem able to maintain consistency over large quantities of leather.

Edward · Sep 26, 2018

ton312 said:
I'm not a huge fan of anything that quickly loses it's original characteristics...I prefer the slow road.

I can see that those who want their jacket to look like it is seventy-odd years old (i.e. like a hard-worn vintage piece might now) and who don't want to have to wear it all the time to break it in to that level fast would appreciate it; those of us who are seeking an overall look that is of that period tend not to want it to look that broken in. I do find it a little odd when some who seek such a finish are critical of those who buy pre-distressed leather, considering them posers and fakers. Where teacore otherwise loses its appeal for me is that I don't care for my black leather going brown. I have brown jackets that I bought to be that colour; when I buy black ,I tend to prefer it to remain so.

Carlos840 · Sep 26, 2018

Milesdeathescape said:
It’s by no means mid weight. It’s the heaviest HH Available.

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That is plainly wrong!

Horween:

Aero Bootlegger (brown CXLFQHH): 2.31 kg / 5.09 lb
Aero Bootlegger (black CXLFQHH): 2.55 kg / 5.63 lb

Shinki:

DC J-100: 1.80 kg / 3.98 lb
Himel Chevalier: 2.23 kg / 4.93 lbs
Freewheelers La Brea: 2.61 kg / 5.76 lb
RMC JH-1: 2.21kg / 4.87lb
DC JH-1: 2.09kg / 4.61lb

I'll give you the fact that Shinki isn't as lightweight as everyone makes it out to be, but to call it "the heaviest HH Available" is not true in any way shape or form.

Mich486 · Sep 26, 2018

Interesting that the black Bootlegger is heavier than the brown (I suppose same size). That is my experience too.

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Peacoat · Sep 26, 2018

@Edward: Agreed. If I want it to be a brown jacket, that is what I will buy. If I want a black motorcycle jacket, I want it to stay black. When it develops patina, that is fine, but it is still basically a black jacket.

I would like to see pics of an older teacore jacket to see how it develops over time.

Carlos840 · Sep 26, 2018

Mich486 said:
Interesting that the black Bootlegger is heavier than the brown (I suppose same size). That is my experience too.

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The brown bootlegger has a thin cotton tartan lining, the black one the thickest wool tartan (strome).
I think that is where most of the difference is found.

Monitor · Sep 26, 2018

Sloan1874 said:
Shinki seem to be a bit of a law unto themselves as to the sort of hides they send out...

Different types of leather. The maker will know exactly which kind they bought for their jackets and how much they pay for it, but we won't see any mention of it, other than the word "Shinki", of course - nevermind the fact that the batch they've bought might've been the cheapest one.

*photo of zombies gurgling "Shinki, shinki..."*

And yeah, that's what I forgot to add - anyone who has ever handled high end, vintage Italian leather will notice striking similarities to Shinki. I think that's what they're going for, actually, how similar the tanning appears to be but that's just my theory.

handymike · Sep 26, 2018

Peacoat said:
@Edward: Agreed. If I want it to be a brown jacket, that is what I will buy. If I want a black motorcycle jacket, I want it to stay black. When it develops patina, that is fine, but it is still basically a black jacket.

I would like to see pics of an older teacore jacket to see how it develops over time.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/diamond-dave-buco-j-21.84178/page-26

Peacoat · Sep 26, 2018

Thanks, @handymike. I seem to remember this thread.

Jejupe · Sep 26, 2018

ton312 said:
I'll see your Shinki and raise you 8lbs....one day old:

But yeah Shinki is no doubt a very nice mid weight hide....

I think ton you're trying a bit of a storse scam of your own, here in horsehide comparison thread. You wouldn't be selling a Steer as a horse now would you?

Milesdeathescape · Sep 26, 2018

Carlos840 said:
That is plainly wrong!

Horween:

Aero Bootlegger (brown CXLFQHH): 2.31 kg / 5.09 lb
Aero Bootlegger (black CXLFQHH): 2.55 kg / 5.63 lb

Shinki:

DC J-100: 1.80 kg / 3.98 lb
Himel Chevalier: 2.23 kg / 4.93 lbs
Freewheelers La Brea: 2.61 kg / 5.76 lb
RMC JH-1: 2.21kg / 4.87lb
DC JH-1: 2.09kg / 4.61lb

I'll give you the fact that Shinki isn't as lightweight as everyone makes it out to be, but to call it "the heaviest HH Available" is not true in any way shape or form.

The problem here is that HH weight has nothing to do with its integrity as a leather.

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Carlos840 · Sep 26, 2018

Milesdeathescape said:
The problem here is that HH weight has nothing to do with its integrity as a leather.

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I don't understand what that has to do with anything?
Are you now saying that Shinki has better integrity than Horween?

Milesdeathescape · Sep 26, 2018

Jejupe said:
I think ton you're trying a bit of a storse scam of your own, here in horsehide comparison thread. You wouldn't be selling a Steer as a horse now would you?

No that’s just the plastic CXL HH. In otherworldliness, Horween

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Milesdeathescape · Sep 26, 2018

Carlos840 said:
I don't understand what that has to do with anything?
Are you now saying that Shinki has better integrity than Horween?

No I’m just saying that weight holds no significant factor. It’s depends on the leather. The weight difference is usually due to fillers anyways, which Shinki uses none of.

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red devil · Sep 26, 2018

This thread made me realise that I only have two jackets in horse and they are both LW (brown suburban and black J 24).

That is being rectified as I have a Horween HH from Johnson leathers on order and thought that I had shinki on the way (GW order, who knows what will come out of it)

Personally, I am curious to see see how both feel when wearing them.

But I would also like to remind everyone that there are plenty of other animals out there

Milesdeathescape · Sep 26, 2018

red devil said:
This thread made me realise that I only have two jackets in horse and they are both LW (brown suburban and black J 24).

That is being rectified as I have a Horween HH from Johnson leathers on order and thought that I had shinki on the way (GW order, who knows what will come out of it)

Personally, I am curious to see see how both feel when wearing them.

But I would also like to remind everyone that there are plenty of other animals out there

I also have an LW. The anj4 features goat paneling

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Carlos840 · Sep 26, 2018

Milesdeathescape said:
No I’m just saying that weight holds no significant factor. It’s depends on the leather. The weight difference is usually due to fillers anyways, which Shinki uses none of.

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So we go from "It’s the heaviest HH Available", demonstrate it to be wrong, switch to "weight holds no significant factor" and now progress to "Shinki is still better because it uses no filler".

ALL HAIL SHINKI, ALL HAIL SHINKI, ALL HAIL SHINKI

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