Back Bow Hat

jimmy the lid · Feb 4, 2007

The Bow at the Back of the Hat...

I was just checking out the new hats acquired by Douglas (in another thread), and one of the photos of his newly-acquired Mallory reminded me of something I've wondered about before. This photo (which I've borrowed -- thanks, Douglas!) shows that there is a ribbon interlaced with the sweatband, culminating in a bow at the back of the hat:

I have seen this before in older Stetsons, as well, and have always been curious about whether or not it ever served a functional purpose. In other words, could one adjust the sizing of the sweatband by tightening or relaxing the interlaced ribbon? Was this a way to make minor adjustments to the sizing of the hat? Was it only ever used on particular kinds of hats -- for example, on western style (including Open Road-style) hats, versus dress hats?

At some point, did this system lose favor and disappear, leaving the bow at the back of the sweatband to serve a purely decorative purpose? (There really seems to be no functional purpose to the bow, otherwise). And, does anyone know if the interlaced ribbon phenomenon is particular to a particular period -- for example, can it be used to date particular hats?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Art Fawcett · Feb 4, 2007

JImmy, at one time ( early 1800's) the leathers were sewn with a twine interlaced so that the sweat could be tied tighter thus "shrinking" the size of the hat. Not quite "one size fits all" but as close as they could come given the sewn rear seam of the leather. I'm not sure when it dropped in favor but today ( and 50 yrs ago) they are purely decorative. Different brands of hats used this feature ( interlaced but non functional) as a distinguishing sales point but to my knowledge can't be used for dating a hat as it wasn't industry standard. I personally like the look.

DOUGLAS · Feb 4, 2007

I also like the look and have many hats in various styles from different companies with this same detail. It harks back to gone by era and for me lends a certain charm to a hat.

Fletch · Feb 4, 2007

Interesting. Never seen a "sizer" like that.

But...I opened this thinking it would be about a ribbon bow at the outside back. Such as on my Selco Ten.

I'm curious if this has any significance - date/era, regional, superstition, secret code, anything. I don't want to go around subtly implying I'm a Bulgarian Methodist steamfitter from Kokomo who voted for Tom Dewey twice, harbors a fetish for department store floor-ladies, and is convinced Henry J. Kaiser will eat him if he falls asleep after supper. (Unless I am any of those things, which, to my knowledge, I am not.)

jimmy the lid · Feb 4, 2007

Thanks for the info, Art. It's interesting, because it did seem as if the interlacing served some sort of functional purpose -- and, apparently, at one time it did. I also understand why it might be included on a non-functional basis, as well, since I think that it's a really neat and distinctive look.

Dinerman · Feb 4, 2007

Fletch, what's with the feather?

Fletch · Feb 4, 2007

If you gotta ask, it's none of your beeswax.

Double Extra S00p3r S3kr1t Significance:
Feather indicates position of ribbon bow.
Rightward orientation of feather indicates it came off the left side of a different hat.
No further meaning should be inferred, although semioticians my find it interesting that subject is left-handed, about 12 lbs overweight, plays the saxophone, and reacts positively to the scents of cocoa butter and Liquid Prell.

The Wolf · Feb 5, 2007

I thought it was ribbon bow also

Charlie Chan's hat in the movies had the ribbon bow on the back. I thought that most unusual.

Sincerely,
the Wolf

thetankw/ahat · Feb 5, 2007

i believe the ribbon in the back (inside) of the hat nowadys is to let those that know very little about hats which way is indeed the back. i swear i've seen some orientals wearing their hats backward at work.

J.B. · Feb 5, 2007

Fletch said:
...
Double Extra S00p3r S3kr1t Significance:
Feather indicates position of ribbon bow.
Rightward orientation of feather indicates it came off the left side of a different hat.
No further meaning should be inferred, although semioticians my find it interesting that subject is left-handed, about 12 lbs overweight, plays the saxophone, and reacts positively to the scents of cocoa butter and Liquid Prell.

Stop it -- you're killin' me!

You zany guy, you!

Aaron Hats · Feb 5, 2007

Hatco still uses this on their higher end western hats but it's strictly decorative.

Feraud · Feb 5, 2007

The Wolf said:
Charlie Chan's hat in the movies had the ribbon bow on the back. I thought that most unusual.

Sincerely,
the Wolf

Lon Chaney Jr. also had a bow at the back of his hat in The Wolfman.

Art Fawcett · Feb 5, 2007

I believe the bow on the back of the hat was initiated in France (exterior bow) and had some experimental episodes here in the 40's & fifties but it didn't sell well so it was stopped. There are rumors about it's effect on the wearer so just curious Fletch, when wearing it do you develop an unusual fondness for sheep?

Fletch · Feb 5, 2007

Not that I've noticed. But I do spend entirely too much time woolgathering.

vintage68 · Feb 5, 2007

I seem to remember a bit of hat lore that originally hatbands were made with a certain substance, and the little bow at the back of the hat used to be a skull and cross bones to indicate that it could be poisonous to the wearer.

I'm ready to admit that i could be WAY off, but something is tickling my memory here....

Zemke Fan · Feb 5, 2007

Geez...

Art Fawcett said:
JImmy, at one time ( early 1800's) the leathers were sewn with a twine interlaced so that the sweat could be tied tighter thus "shrinking" the size of the hat. Not quite "one size fits all" but as close as they could come given the sewn rear seam of the leather. I'm not sure when it dropped in favor but today ( and 50 yrs ago) they are purely decorative. Different brands of hats used this feature ( interlaced but non functional) as a distinguishing sales point but to my knowledge can't be used for dating a hat as it wasn't industry standard. I personally like the look.

And I thought this was so you could tell the front of your lid from the back... Making sure that it's never worn backwards.

Feraud · Feb 5, 2007

vintage68 said:
I seem to remember a bit of hat lore that originally hatbands were made with a certain substance, and the little bow at the back of the hat used to be a skull and cross bones to indicate that it could be poisonous to the wearer.

I'm ready to admit that i could be WAY off, but something is tickling my memory here....

Hat felt was processed with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)#Hattingmercury and that could be the poisonous aspect you recall. The old "mad as a hatter" comment.

As Art noted at the top of the thread, the bow was originally intended to somewhat tighten the sweatband.

eg · Feb 5, 2007

hmmm

Only my panamas have them, but then I do not have a large or sophisticated collection of other hats.

Art Fawcett · Feb 5, 2007

Welcome to the Lounge EG, your felt hats don't have a back bow on the sweatband? How odd. Who are the makers?

reetpleat · Feb 5, 2007

Fletch said:
Interesting. Never seen a "sizer" like that.

But...I opened this thinking it would be about a ribbon bow at the outside back. Such as on my Selco Ten.

I'm curious if this has any significance - date/era, regional, superstition, secret code, anything. I don't want to go around subtly implying I'm a Bulgarian Methodist steamfitter from Kokomo who voted for Tom Dewey twice, harbors a fetish for department store floor-ladies, and is convinced Henry J. Kaiser will eat him if he falls asleep after supper. (Unless I am any of those things, which, to my knowledge, I am not.)

Your secret is out.

I have never seen one like yours. Very cool.

I have only seen the backwards bow on one style which is a kind of odd but interesting style from the late forties fifties. It is like pork pie, but not folded down. The hat is crowned completely flat on top. It is actually made that way. Medium brim and pretty low, like any other flattop.

ANy name for these?

I have seen two or three of them in my day, all the same.

Back Bow Hat

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