wash your jeans?

Seb Lucas said:

It's a fashion thing, I guess. There's a robust cult of authenticity regarding all sorts of things, from shaving to food to clothing. Many consumers want to see items and techniques that evoke nostalgia and are built upon the idea that 'things were better back then' - whenever 'then' was.

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Oddly, those same people never seem to take it to the extent of insisting on vintage health care...

Seb Lucas said:

Looking good HD - no smarty pants comments possible from what I see.

This is the general look I think we all want to avoid. The awful, even, light blue fading and the baggy fit. Jeans worn as chinos or track pants.

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This is incomplete. Needs these shoes to be perfect:

ton312 said:

Indeed. Now take your hands off your hips and ball up your fist man. You're 95% of the way there!

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Tried that Tony but the Grandkids slinked out of the room trembling in fear. Then I had to take them all out for ice cream to make them quit crying.

I wear raw selvedge denim, but you better believe I wash them! Be aware if you wash them they will shrink even if you wash in cold water and hang dry, even if sanforized. Be sure to buy a size 1" larger in the waist and 3 inches longer in the inseam if sanforized, and 2" larger in the waist and 5" or so longer in the inseam if not sanforized.

Seb Lucas said:

Sure. But the more curious point is why do some of us have several $1000 jackets and a bunch of $30 jeans?

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I became interested in better quality leather jackets simply to get a custom better fit for my long arms and torso. No customizing available for leather mall jackets. $30 jeans are easy to get a good fit right off the shelf. So fit is key for me. After paying extra for a custom good fitting jacket the option of different hides and styles was simply icing on the cake. I certainly wouldn't pay $1000 for an off the rack jacket fit no matter how pretty and unique it was. That's my story.

Doctor Damage said:

Oddly, those same people never seem to take it to the extent of insisting on vintage health care...

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vintage healthcare
"just walk it off!!"

I must say the 1st time wearing it I was taken aback, the first evening and the 1st day was challenging, by the end of 1st day i can button it while standing, by the start of 2nd day i wear it early in the morning and by noon... i can perform this in a heavy weight denim I picked with skinny fit in mind ... this is easy... no where compared to breaking in leather. Maybe the real challenge is the patience needed for people who want to achieve fading rather than sore limbs fighting off the garment.

I washed and wore a pair of Levi Jeans 6 days a week, 10 months of a year and washed them regular every few days to keep kitchen gunk and bacteria away...I rode a bicycle everyday with them, The crotch shredded by the next spring and there were holes in the knees by the time I switched Jobs from Dishwasher to moving company... they were bleached pretty white. So I figure an average pair denim Jeans will last 3-5 years of normal wear. I'd love to not wash my jeans, I try to baby a couple pairs and have a a few on hand for heavy work.

Believe me, Jeans are a lot better full of patches and holes and broken in, they fit better that way. Trusst me you WANT them broken in harrrd!!!

Just WEAR THEM!!!!!! Wear and tear em. Live in them. You're cool. congrats.

Really? Dress jeans? To me, that's like an oxymoron. When I was younger, I'd buy a pair of board-stiff Levi's, put them on and climb into a hot tub of water. True "shrink-to-fit!" Once done, I'd wash them when needed and dry in a dryer. I'd buy a longer size than I needed to allow for shrinkage.

A couple of years ago, I was walking through a Nordstrom when I saw a rack of jeans that were torn, irregularly faded, and looking all like they'd been run over by a dump truck. Price: $1,900. Yes, you read that right.

I wear jeans probably six days a week. I have maybe four pair, and I wash them when they just get "saggy" or too dirty. I have recently switched to cool water, but regular wash and regular dry, and my jeans last me for years.

navetsea said:

I must say the 1st time wearing it I was taken aback, the first evening and the 1st day was challenging, by the end of 1st day i can button it while standing, by the start of 2nd day i wear it early in the morning and by noon... i can perform this in a heavy weight denim I picked with skinny fit in mind ... this is easy... no where compared to breaking in leather. Maybe the real challenge is the patience needed for people who want to achieve fading rather than sore limbs fighting off the garment.

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Looks like there is already quite some flexibility in the 21oz denim. It usually takes quite some time until my max 15 oz Jeans become that flexible. Plus I am not that flexible [emoji2]


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navetsea said:

I must say the 1st time wearing it I was taken aback, the first evening and the 1st day was challenging, by the end of 1st day i can button it while standing, by the start of 2nd day i wear it early in the morning and by noon... i can perform this in a heavy weight denim I picked with skinny fit in mind ... this is easy... no where compared to breaking in leather. Maybe the real challenge is the patience needed for people who want to achieve fading rather than sore limbs fighting off the garment.

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Glad your jeans are breaking in, but as an over-50-years-old man, I have to say that picture makes my hips hurt just looking at it!

Yeah, raw denim enthusiasts and designer denim buyers probably looks very different at the beginning, but they both love faded, torn, and patched jeans in their mind. I just like the very dark color and the heftiness of these pants, maybe my view would change as the time progress and can appreciate its evolution, but I hope it progresses real slow.

I did expect from the thickness and the initial rigidity would give me at least a week of challenge from articles I read from denim forum and sites, and the first wear did give me that challenge with how hard to button it, there was some fear I picked the wrong size for this weight of denim maybe a roomier size would work better, but by the second day it was over, can button it up normally, can do whatever move I want to do, sure the creases along the lower leg still look unnatural will take a while for them to settle down so it is far from broken in in respect of how it looks, but the physical challenge is done kinda wish for more.

I used to cycle a lot to commute around, and my thin mall jeans at the time did fade because of it, but I never have crotch hole blowouts not in the seams nor the fabrics, so perhaps it is caused by not washing more than the saddle of a bicycle, and I suspect person with heavier build that the inner thighs just bellow the crotch seams brushing against another as they walk would get problem of these blowout more than another person with thinner legs.

patrick_b said:

The idea of never washing or washing only annually has been proven to actually decrease the life of one’s denim. Your idea of washing monthly or when they get dirty is perfectly fine and has even gained more acceptance in recent years.

The never washing idea became the standard for folks that wanted very high contrast fades. The idea being that washing allows for indigo loss all over the jean. By not washing, you are only losing indigo in areas of high wear or friction (behind the knees, the lap, etc.). When you eventually wash, the high friction areas exhibited more indigo loss, ie, fades.

However in recent years, the consensus has changed a bit. By not washing, the dirt build up in those high friction areas unneccessarily damages the fabric causing premature wear.

If you listen to guys like Kiya Babzani (owner of Self Edge) and the guys that own 3Sixteen, they all recommend a more simple approach; washing when they get dirty or smelly. For some that’s every few months, for others it’s monthly or more. What you may lose in those coveted high contrast fades, you gain in longevity and durability. I try to hold off on the first wash until the creases set. For me it’s a few months. After that I wash them about monthly in cold water and hang to dry.

Hope that helps!

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This is great advice. I am an old denim head and this is my process, with my $100 Levi's and my $425 Iron Hearts. I wash mine when they need to be washed.

handymike said:

I wash mine in a bathtub with cold water and Woolite Dark.
Then I hang dry...
I had a bad experience with washing in a machine. Spider web fades, and one pair even got a "cowboy crease" fade straight down the leg from the spin cycle. I hear that washing inside-out minimizes this, but in the tub, I feel they stay darker longer.

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Yes, no machine wash for me for that reason. I soak them in the tub with whatever temperature water I think is appropriate (each jean does have its own personality), Woolite Dark (maybe), and then hang them to dry. Mine, regardless of ounce count, are dry by morning, sometimes stiff and crunchy and ready to wear again. Even if they're still a little wet, wear them, just don't extend the knees too much until they're fully dry.

Hmm mine feels broken-in and pleasant to wear, but visually still appear weird stacking on the lower leg still criscrossing and defying gravity and some pooling behind the knee and push the fabric up making thigh looks big. I wonder if using fabric softener could help it.

HoosierDaddy said:

Well jonesy...I just can't see much difference except the price. I think I paid $20 for mine before Christmas during an online JC Penney sale for dark rinse jeans. Plus I can't see a button fly as an upgrade. A zip is more simple and efficient for me. After I saw how heavy Penney's denim was I then ordered another pair. Wished I had ordered more. Just think how many JC Penny jeans I could have purchased for $335.

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When it comes to buying anything for my wardrobe, there are two reasons to pay over what I would for mainstream fashion wear: enhanced quality, and 'vintage correct' pattern/fit. Alas, the market for reproduction clothing certainly has its share of cowboys who give you the latter, but at GBP80-100 and at the same quality as the GBP20 pair.

Denim is an interesting one. Jeans were my go-to when I was much younger. As a kid, if I wasn't in school or church, I was in jeans ( year round; I developed a pronounced dislike for shorts by the time I was fifteen). As an undergraduate, I pretty much lived in jeans; at any one time, I had maybe three pairs in blue, a black pair, and a coupe of pairs of what we called 'combat trousers' - military field trousers with thigh pockets, in those days usually German, though I developed a fondness later on for Dutch ones). The idea of selvedge and fancy vintage patterns weren't around then. I went out of my way to try to find Ramone-style drainpipes, though in 1990s Ireland that was very difficult (ironically, now that I want wide legs, super-narrow styles are often all one sees in the stores). Nowadays, after experimenting with a number of styles (though never being persuaded to part with the sort of money that comes close to a leather jacket or a half-decent suit for a pair!), I have a much clearer idea of what I like. I'll pay a bit mored for something I really want, like some nice SJC wabash I have in storage, but by and large for me nowadays jeans are not something I want to sink huge money into. In particular, just in this last couple of weeks I have acquired my first pair of Wrangler Cowboy Cut 13MWZ, and they are, frankly, almost everything I could want in a pair of jeans. Accurate, original 1947 fit, plenty of room in the leg and for engineer boots to go under, really solid, quality denim, plenty long enough for a good cuff, and a ridiculously comfortable, proper 40s high waist, belt loops deep enough for a good, chunky leather belt. They're not selvedge, but TBH the thing I've learned over the years is that for me the only real difference (given I don't care for fades and such) is that they don't have that little selvedge tick on the cuffs. At thirty quid, I can live without that very happily. The zip fly is unusual for me - I think the first time in about a decade I've had jeans with one. I typically feel more secure with a button fly in anything because it's easier repaired and I can do that myself, but so far I've had no reason to worry about the zip in these; it's a high quality, solid brass YKK and works lovely. The biggest bonus too is that because it's an all-original fit design, the zip is the proper length for them, so I don't have to drop trou to be able to actually pee comfortably (a problem I've had with some modern design trousers where they raised the waistband but kept the same length zipper!). Unike some of my other trousers also, the zip here isn't a modern compromise either: the '13MWZ' Cowboy Cut Wranglers introduced by the Blue Bell work clothes company in 1947 were the first jeans to be commercially produced with a zip as standard. The model name denotes this - MWZ = Men's, With Zipper. If memory serves, the 13 denoted the 13oz denim originally used, though these days that varies with colour / fabric (mine are "pre-washed indigo", I think - 13MWZXS on the label, and 14.75oz weight). I've worn these almost every day on my Easter break, as I'm really enjoying them. When I'm back in work, denim will go back to being something I'll throw on to do the groceries at the weekend, or after I get in from church on a Sunday afternoon. Much as I might enjoy constructing a casual look around a pair of jeans, they really are just that - an easy default casual option for when I don't want or need to make much of an effort. These wranglers are the first pair of proper jeans I've worn in two or three years; in between times, I've been wearing a pair of denim dungarees (I think they're called 'overalls' in US speak - trousers but with the attached bib-front, like the guy in the American Gothic painting) grocery shopping / round the house. Went looking for a pair of cheap jeans (losing weight currently, so don't want to spend big on clothes for a while) as it's travel season and I discovered through experience that the dungarees' clips and buckles send airport security scanners nuts. In the last instance, jeans are basics, like undershirts and boxer shorts. Utilitarian, not quite disposable, but bought to be worn without worry, and eventually replaced with Same Again. Having discovered the Cowboy Cut Wranglers (actually my other half found them online and we ordered from the US; they're not actually sold here in the UK), I see no point in paying more for "better" jeans - these do everything I'd want. I'll pay a bit more for some different denims in future doubtless - wabash, maybe a pair of the Dickies 871s in selvedge, or whatever - but for a basic, go to jean, I simply don't see any need for me when I can get these so cheap.

HoosierDaddy said:

I'm sure that my new JC Penney dark rinse Arizona jeans aren't near as heavy as 21oz or even 14.7oz. I really don't know what they are except that they came in heavier than my other jeans. They don't leave blue dye on my legs or places I sit so I'm pretty sure that they won't fade easily. I kinda like them. Any heavier though and they would more than likely be uncomfortable for me. Once again, Just can't see paying hundreds of dollars for such heavy jeans that must be shrunk to size when most modern jeans barely shrink at all and fit from the get go.

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I hear you on the blue dye! I had that experience with my Soldier of Fortune selvedges. Cracking pair of jeans for the money, wear really well, but I didn't think to wash before wearing, and ended up with legs like a smurf the first couple of days. There was also some dye transfer on my clothes, though nothing that didn't wash out, fortunately none on furniture or anything.

When I was a kid, jeans had to be washed several times to shrink and rinse the over dye out of them. Why do some want to backtrack to that hassle and pay top dollar to do it? Some seem to giggle with glee at the anticipation of going through that bother. Please explain.

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In truth, HD, I think it's a generational thing. I've seen a lot of folks get into vintage over the years and go through at least a stage of obsessing over vintage correctness even where the result is identical or undetectable - you know, using a mangle with the washing instead of a machine spin, or, indeed, shrink to fit jeans. (I've had some of the latter, but I just wore a bit loose and washed, never sat in the bath!) Stuff that people who lived through the era in which it was just what you had to do were only too happy to give up when a more convenient alternative came along. I think it's a product of the wider notion that it's easier to be nostalgic for something when it's novel to you, but if you had to live through it as a daily grind with no other choice...

Mich486 said:

I’d also would like to throw in the discussion that — as for leather — quality denim doesn’t equate to 20oz+. Again, a substantial and stiff denim is easily associated to a higher quality given that most high street stuff is less than 12oz and with elastane 9 out of 10 times.

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I think you hit the nail on the head here: it's easy to assume that if the obvious difference between the high end makers and the cheapos is that the cheap jeans are never the very heavy denim, then heavy = quality. To the best of my understanding, denim much heavier than 14-15oz is a very new concept, and back in the day (much like leather jackets, really) they were typically much lighter than is the case now.

FWIW, I'm a bigger guy and all my trousers wear out first at the crotch, where my swimmer's thighs rub. Back when I wore denim extensively and heavily every day, two to three pairs of jeans in rotation might last me two to two and a half years. (In those days I was buying fairly standard Lee Cooper, Wrangler, sometimes Levis, though Levis always had the shortest lifespan with me.) My current bib-dungarees (Berne is the brand - about forty quid on eBay) must be around 10oz, and they have less perceptible wear on them after about three years than heavier denim I've worn as heavily for as long.

Seb Lucas said:

Sure. But the more curious point is why do some of us have several $1000 jackets and a bunch of $30 jeans?

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Pretty simple, really. My Wrangler Cowboy Cut cost me about USD40 all told. They do everything I need in a jean; yes, aesthetically that little selvedge tag at the cuff would be nice, but it's such a small cosmetic difference, it's not worth it. Given how happy I am with these, and allowing for, relatively speaking, how little of my time is spent in jeans, I don't feel any need to spend more than that to get what I want in a pair of jeans - either qualitatively or aesthetically. Leather jackets I'm looking for something that will last potentially the rest of my lifetime, not two to three years of semi-regular wear, and I can't just go to the Wrangler website and find leather jackets of the quality and style I like for buttons. Simpe as that, really. Also, most of us have a finite level of resources to put into this hobby (even if it is easier to justify than some hobbies, cause at the end of the day we all need clothes); if I can get the perfect pair of jeans for me for USD40 instead of USD400, then that's USD360 more I have towards that USD1000 jacket. IT's possible I'd feel differently if I wore jeans every day, though I couldn't swear to that.

Seb Lucas said:

Well, I think an accurate 1940-50's wide cut looks totally different to these Wallmart jeans, no? Not a cut I can wear (I am too slim) but dignified in its own way.

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Generally an accurate cut would be much better designed, yes. Higher waist for a start. There's no sort of trousers of any cloth that aren't more flattering if they reach the wearer's natural waist rather than sitting some way below it.

HoosierDaddy said:

I became interested in better quality leather jackets simply to get a custom better fit for my long arms and torso. No customizing available for leather mall jackets. $30 jeans are easy to get a good fit right off the shelf. So fit is key for me. After paying extra for a custom good fitting jacket the option of different hides and styles was simply icing on the cake. I certainly wouldn't pay $1000 for an off the rack jacket fit no matter how pretty and unique it was. That's my story.

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I hear you. I don't feel the need to shell out more on jeans when I can get what I want otr; leather jackets it's different. Course, the fact that a leather jacket of reasonable quality will long outlast a pair of jeans no matter how expensive also means I'm more prepare to spend more money on one.

OldStrummer said:

Really? Dress jeans? To me, that's like an oxymoron.

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The fashion press do seem to fixate on the notion of 'dress jeans'. Best as I can make out, it seems to mean that they have a flattering fit and look newer with no holes or irregular fades. Sometimes they seem to be trousers cut in a more formal slacks style (as opposed to the five-pocket jean we all know and love) but made in denim. I think a lot of it is based on those notion of 'dress clothes' in the wardrobe strata of what might not be permitted for dress down Friday in a corporate law firm, but would still see you gain entry to a higher-end "night club". I also think the advent of this concept has a lot to do with the coming of age in the fashion sector of that generation of men who still think like the Silicon Valley types who associate the look of success with not having to impress anyone with your dress sense. Sure, some men simply wear clothes because they'd be arrested if they didn't, but anyone who curates dress jeans in their wardrobe clearly cares very much about how they dress, and I think wants to give off the "I don't wear 'formal' trousers like the squares!" vibe. I find the "I've made it now, so I don't have to conform to your dress code" vibe rather played out and tired by this point, but then I've long believed in dressing for myself rather than for the calculated impact upon others (within reason, obvs).

I feel if exactly the same jeans is sewn in tonal thread and with tonal or hidden or no arcuate on the back pocket and with dark colored metal buttons and rivets (or at least without crotch rivet), it would be dress pants-jeans, as long as it is hemmed properly or at least without exaggerated stack or cuff, but if that exactly same jeans is sewn with 3 different colored threads, with visible arcuate on the back, and worn cuffed then it is impossible to be dressy no matter the state of the pants currently is even when it is brand new, because the stitches and bartacks around the fly and on the back pockets always make it super casual when done in orange, lemon yellow, pink, red, or combination of those.

How long until these come back around? 2045? Too soon? Talk about a Venus fly trap.

anyway, yesterday I sun washed my jeans... after long rainy season, finally there were some sun, so I brushed the outside thoroughly, turned inside out, brushed the inside thoroughly, and let the sun kill any possible mildew from the inside, and I sprayed dettol on it and let it get absorbed and dry on it for 2 hrs, pants feel fresh again.
next time I will buy a proper tool to spank clean my jeans