Side By Side/ Hat Comparisons

Tukwila · Mar 23, 2019

Short Balding Guy said:
I took a newly cleaned and "spruced up" vintage Stetson Playboy in pine green out for a dog walk. I have not seen many Playboys in this felt hue. The "pine" green hue is a fav of mine. I am very pleased to be able to have it on my hat rack.

This is one of the early Playboys, 30-early 40's, as identified by the soft reeded "wide" leather sweat and fonts.

The stitching on the brim edge is excellent. The liner, while showing fading and some patina from use is clean as can be and still shows the distinct printing from liners of that era. "Pine " was the felt hue as listed in the magazine advertisements in the day.

I took some comparison pics with a vtg. Stetson Stratoliner in pine green. The Stratoliner is a late 40's-50's hat. The reeding and the quality of leather sweat are different. The blocking is nearly the same when the hats are brought to open crown.

The most obvious differences of the ribbon and edge treatment are still fun to seem in comparision as they are both executed well and with quality.

Cheers for pine hued vintage Stetsons! Thanks for allowing me to share these couple of unique hats.

Best, Eric -

Most excellent comparison, Eric. I love your style and your hats!

Short Balding Guy · Mar 23, 2019

steur said:
Excellent comparison, Eric. Two lovely hats side by side and a good thread bumped up again. Thanks for that!

Thanks sir.

Tukwila said:
Most excellent comparison, Eric. I love your style and your hats!

Thanks for the compliment. These pine green hats are truly fav's.

Short Balding Guy · Mar 30, 2019

This afternoon I would like to contribute pics and reflections of a couple of vtg. Stetson Whippet hats I have been wearing today.

I started some afternoon hanging out. It may be 45'f, but I was sipping a beer on the deck wearing a charcoal/blue Whippet. This hat was sold from Two Stores, Jameson's in Ames, IA, USA. While the Whippets were not often the top "dog" in quality, this hat is excellent in finish and ribbon treatment. My hat rack is better off with this Whippet.

I felt guilty hanging about and started picking up fallen limbs and twigs after changing to a carmel hued Stetson Whippet. I deliberately chose this hat to illustrate the differences that can exist in vintage Whippets. This hat was sold from Smith and Sons, Sydney, AU. This "3X Beaver Quality, Made in Australia under license" is a way better felt. The pouncing, the consistency of the density and malleability of felt and the sewing of the ribbon treatment is superior to the hat sold in Ames, IA. This one is a grand vintage Whippet. My hat rack is definitely better off with this Whippet.

Is the country of manufacture the main difference in characteristics and the quality of the finished hat? I have no idea. I am of the belief that this is not a valid question as many circumstances affect each hat. The facts remain that they were manufactured in similar decades and sold 8938 miles apart. The ribbon size, hat size, blocking, flanging, brim size, binding size are similar. Felt, pouncing, leather sweat, liners and workmanship have some differences.

I enjoy wearing them both, each for many reasons. Cheers USA and AU Stetson licensed manufacturers.

Best, Eric -

DRB · Apr 6, 2019

steur said:
I promised you this earlier, but the weather wasn't cooperating. Here it is. When I was looking for velour hats to wear I stumbled upon my Cervo Super Princeps that Daniele found for me. I don't wear it nearly enough, because it's slightly tight on me. I did notice however that is resembled my Borsalino velour in Lupo colour. Let's see them side by side.

The Borsalino is on the right (which leaves the Cervo the left side obviously). They are very close in colour. Cervo calls the colour "Cardiff". The Borsalino seems a little fuller in colour and has more sheen to the felt, which is a bit fuller too.
A very similar shape to the crowns and a centimeter difference in the brims; raw edge for both of them, with the borsalino measuring 5,5cm and the Cervo 6,5cm.
Do I have a wolf pack from Wales on my hands here?

View attachment 148669 View attachment 148670 View attachment 148671 View attachment 148672 View attachment 148673 View attachment 148674 View attachment 148675

Now your talkin'. Really cool colors and felt. Congratulations.

steur · Apr 6, 2019

Short Balding Guy said:
This afternoon I would like to contribute pics and reflections of a couple of vtg. Stetson Whippet hats I have been wearing today.

I started some afternoon hanging out. It may be 45'f, but I was sipping a beer on the deck wearing a charcoal/blue Whippet. This hat was sold from Two Stores, Jameson's in Ames, IA, USA. While the Whippets were not often the top "dog" in quality, this hat is excellent in finish and ribbon treatment. My hat rack is better off with this Whippet.

I felt guilty hanging about and started picking up fallen limbs and twigs after changing to a carmel hued Stetson Whippet. I deliberately chose this hat to illustrate the differences that can exist in vintage Whippets. This hat was sold from Smith and Sons, Sydney, AU. This "3X Beaver Quality, Made in Australia under license" is a way better felt. The pouncing, the consistency of the density and malleability of felt and the sewing of the ribbon treatment is superior to the hat sold in Ames, IA. This one is a grand vintage Whippet. My hat rack is definitely better off with this Whippet.

Is the country of manufacture the main difference in characteristics and the quality of the finished hat? I have no idea. I am of the belief that this is not a valid question as many circumstances affect each hat. The facts remain that they were manufactured in similar decades and sold 8938 miles apart. The ribbon size, hat size, blocking, flanging, brim size, binding size are similar. Felt, pouncing, leather sweat, liners and workmanship have some differences.

I enjoy wearing them both, each for many reasons. Cheers USA and AU Stetson licensed manufacturers.

Best, Eric -

Didn't notice this one before. Excellent comparison again, Eric. The brown one does have a striking colour. Very cool. Thanks for posting these.

steur · Apr 6, 2019

DRB said:
Now your talkin'. Really cool colors and felt. Congratulations.

Thanks, Dennis. They're going back into hybernation for spring and summer now. Joined by their velour and longhaired brethren.

steur · Apr 22, 2019

I promised myself I'd do this one when I received the Ludoela model hat. Side by side today are two Borsalino Ghiaccio coloured hats of different models. And one extra thrown in for colour comparison.

First picture show the models: on the left the Faunosca 38 1/2 and on the right the Ludoela model. Nothing between them in colour. Both thin ribboned and bound brimmed. The ribbon style is slightly different on them. The Ludoela on the right is older and made for the American market and even though they are the same size, that one fits larger.

The hat on top is a Bocciasti model, also in the colour ghiaccio, but as can be seen it is far more grey in its colour than the other two, which are more ivory coloured. All of them lightweight hats. The Bocciasti is the lightest with just 77 grams, followed by the Faunosca 38 1/2 with 85 grams and finally the Ludoela clocking in at 96 grams.

The difference between the two models is best shown in side view: the Ludoela on the right has both a higher crown and and wider brim. The Faunosca has a brim width of 6,5cm and the Ludoela slightly over 7cm. The crown height at the center dent is 9,5cm for the Faunosca and a good 10,5cm for the Ludoela.

Here the difference im bow styles.

Here the Faunosca next to the Bocciasti. The crown shapes are comparable, but the difference is in the brim width: the Bocciasti has a far narrower brim at 5cm.

Felt and finish on all three are at the highest level. Light, soft and pliable without any resistance. The Ludoela is probably the softest of them, because I have to be very careful handling it or there's a different crease in it. When I first posted it, I pointed out that it shows tiny indentations just above the ribbon (if you look carefully they can be seen in the first picture). These are caused by the thread of the liner pulling the felt inwards. Amazing.

Both of them late forties or early fifties hats.

Short Balding Guy · Apr 22, 2019

Thanks for sharing these wonderful hats. Your pics do show the felt to be soft and maleable. The liner stitch dents are an excellent observation. I will be looking carefully at my hats for them in the future. These light hued felts are gorgeous. Borsolino's rep for making high quality hats is exemplified by them.

Love the hats. Thanks again. Eric -

DRB · Apr 22, 2019

steur said:
I promised myself I'd do this one when I received the Ludoela model hat. Side by side today are two Borsalino Ghiaccio coloured hats of different models. And one extra thrown in for colour comparison.

First picture show the models: on the left the Faunosca 38 1/2 and on the right the Ludoela model. Nothing between them in colour. Both thin ribboned and bound brimmed. The ribbon style is slightly different on them. The Ludoela on the right is older and made for the American market and even though they are the same size, that one fits larger.
View attachment 165723
The hat on top is a Bocciasti model, also in the colour ghiaccio, but as can be seen it is far more grey in its colour than the other two, which are more ivory coloured. All of them lightweight hats. The Bocciasti is the lightest with just 77 grams, followed by the Faunosca 38 1/2 with 85 grams and finally the Ludoela clocking in at 96 grams.
View attachment 165724
The difference between the two models is best shown in side view: the Ludoela on the right has both a higher crown and and wider brim. The Faunosca has a brim width of 6,5cm and the Ludoela slightly over 7cm. The crown height at the center dent is 9,5cm for the Faunosca and a good 10,5cm for the Ludoela.
View attachment 165725
Here the difference im bow styles.
View attachment 165726 View attachment 165727
Here the Faunosca next to the Bocciasti. The crown shapes are comparable, but the difference is in the brim width: the Bocciasti has a far narrower brim at 5cm.
View attachment 165728 View attachment 165729
Felt and finish on all three are at the highest level. Light, soft and pliable without any resistance. The Ludoela is probably the softest of them, because I have to be very careful handling it or there's a different crease in it. When I first posted it, I pointed out that it shows tiny indentations just above the ribbon (if you look carefully they can be seen in the first picture). These are caused by the thread of the liner pulling the felt inwards. Amazing.
View attachment 165730

Both of them late forties or early fifties hats.
View attachment 165731 View attachment 165732

Stefan, beautiful hats. I'll bet they would compliment any outfit.

steur · Apr 24, 2019

Short Balding Guy said:
Thanks for sharing these wonderful hats. Your pics do show the felt to be soft and maleable. The liner stitch dents are an excellent observation. I will be looking carefully at my hats for them in the future. These light hued felts are gorgeous. Borsolino's rep for making high quality hats is exemplified by them.

Love the hats. Thanks again. Eric -

DRB said:
Stefan, beautiful hats. I'll bet they would compliment any outfit.

Eric, Dennis, thank you. Much appreciated.

steur · Apr 24, 2019

Here's another comparison. When is a homburg not a homburg? It seems I shot myself in the foot with this one bacause the intention was to compare the homburg hats I have in the classic grey with contrasting ribbon and brim binding. Well, here they are. There are eleven of them and there are still a few missing (two were hiding somewhere and one is at the hatter). And for the life of me I can't recall which hat was were at the time of the pictures exactly. I'm going to try anyway. I don't think I need to explain this is a colour combination I find very appealing

(but it is a bit silly to have this many of them).

On top: Mallory fifteen
Second row left to right: Latest Style, Borsalino Argento, Snyder's
Third row left to right: Resolut, Mayser Superbe, Borsalino Amiata
Bottom row left to right: Mayser spezial, Panizza Super, Borsalino Rutenio, Wegener.
Sounds about right.

All of these hats are fine quality, good finishing and nice hand to the felt. Aside from the very different shades of grey and subtle differences in brim bindings, they all have fairly straight crowns (except the Wegener, which seems a bit bulbous). What sets them apart is their brim width, curve and flange.

Now why I wanted to do this comparison is to illustrate how what defines a homburg is debateable. Below I put together four hats to illustrate that point. From the top left to bottom right: Mayser Spezial, Borsalino Argento, Resolut and Panizza Super. Where there's not really a discussion that the Resolut with the wider brim and shallow brim curve is not really a homburg, the Panizza is already on the edge of being either a fedora with a brim curve or a homburg with a shallow curve and wider brim. The Mayser seems to cross the line into homburg territory more distinctly, but has a fairly flat flange and wider brim for a classic homburg. The Borsalino is the one with the clearest homburg shape.

These shots show these differences in brims for another set of hats. Top left to bottom right: Borsalino Argento, Latest Style, Mallory, Snyder's and Borsalino Rutenio.

And another group again with the brims viewed from the side. Top to bottom: Resolut (fairly flat flange and basically brim up type), Mayser Spezial (very flat flange front to back, but with distinctly inward curving brim edge), Borsalino Argento (gentle curve front to back and classic homburg flange), Mallory (fairly flat flange and wide brim -also has the tallest crown of them all) and finally the Borsalino Rutenio (sharper curve front to back combined with the classic homburg flange).

Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.

alanfgag · Apr 24, 2019

steur said:
Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.

Nor for a wide range of ribbon width. ;^) Interesting to see a true collector's collection and appreciate the subtle variations on a theme in your excellent photos. Thanks for that!

steur · Apr 24, 2019

alanfgag said:
Nor for a wide range of ribbon width. ;^) Interesting to see a true collector's collection and appreciate the subtle variations on a theme in your excellent photos. Thanks for that!

Thanks, Alan. My pleasure. Maybe there's some sort of ribbon width rule in place for these that is enforced with iron hand!

deadlyhandsome · Apr 24, 2019

steur said:
Here's another comparison. When is a homburg not a homburg? It seems I shot myself in the foot with this one bacause the intention was to compare the homburg hats I have in the classic grey with contrasting ribbon and brim binding. Well, here they are. There are eleven of them and there are still a few missing (two were hiding somewhere and one is at the hatter). And for the life of me I can't recall which hat was were at the time of the pictures exactly. I'm going to try anyway. I don't think I need to explain this is a colour combination I find very appealing (but it is a bit silly to have this many of them).

On top: Mallory fifteen
Second row left to right: Latest Style, Borsalino Argento, Snyder's
Third row left to right: Resolut, Mayser Superbe, Borsalino Amiata
Bottom row left to right: Mayser spezial, Panizza Super, Borsalino Rutenio, Wegener.
Sounds about right.
View attachment 165952
All of these hats are fine quality, good finishing and nice hand to the felt. Aside from the very different shades of grey and subtle differences in brim bindings, they all have fairly straight crowns (except the Wegener, which seems a bit bulbous). What sets them apart is their brim width, curve and flange.
View attachment 165953
Now why I wanted to do this comparison is to illustrate how what defines a homburg is debateable. Below I put together four hats to illustrate that point. From the top left to bottom right: Mayser Spezial, Borsalino Argento, Resolut and Panizza Super. Where there's not really a discussion that the Resolut with the wider brim and shallow brim curve is not really a homburg, the Panizza is already on the edge of being either a fedora with a brim curve or a homburg with a shallow curve and wider brim. The Mayser seems to cross the line into homburg territory more distinctly, but has a fairly flat flange and wider brim for a classic homburg. The Borsalino is the one with the clearest homburg shape.
View attachment 165954
These shots show these differences in brims for another set of hats. Top left to bottom right: Borsalino Argento, Latest Style, Mallory, Snyder's and Borsalino Rutenio.
View attachment 165955
View attachment 165956
And another group again with the brims viewed from the side. Top to bottom: Resolut (fairly flat flange and basically brim up type), Mayser Spezial (very flat flange front to back, but with distinctly inward curving brim edge), Borsalino Argento (gentle curve front to back and classic homburg flange), Mallory (fairly flat flange and wide brim -also has the tallest crown of them all) and finally the Borsalino Rutenio (sharper curve front to back combined with the classic homburg flange).
View attachment 165957

Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.

Incredible seeing them all together. All similar and yet different too. The subtle variations are wonderful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

steur · Apr 24, 2019

deadlyhandsome said:
Incredible seeing them all together. All similar and yet different too. The subtle variations are wonderful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks, Brent. Most of the work was in rounding them up!

TheOldFashioned · Apr 24, 2019

steur said:
Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.

Don't think I can achieve this level since the wife sort of already questioned why I had two grey with black homburgs. Fortunately they're two different shades of grey, and one is domestic (Dobbs) and one is foreign (Borsalino).

steur · Apr 25, 2019

TheOldFashioned said:
Don't think I can achieve this level since the wife sort of already questioned why I had two grey with black homburgs. Fortunately they're two different shades of grey, and one is domestic (Dobbs) and one is foreign (Borsalino).

You could use these pictures to show her why you need more of them (but don't mention her shoes).

TheOldFashioned · Apr 25, 2019

steur said:
You could use these pictures to show her why you need more of them (but don't mention her shoes).

No worries there since I have more shoes than she does.

Short Balding Guy · Apr 25, 2019

steur said:
Here's another comparison. When is a homburg not a homburg? It seems I shot myself in the foot with this one bacause the intention was to compare the homburg hats I have in the classic grey with contrasting ribbon and brim binding. Well, here they are. There are eleven of them and there are still a few missing (two were hiding somewhere and one is at the hatter). And for the life of me I can't recall which hat was were at the time of the pictures exactly. I'm going to try anyway. I don't think I need to explain this is a colour combination I find very appealing (but it is a bit silly to have this many of them).

On top: Mallory fifteen
Second row left to right: Latest Style, Borsalino Argento, Snyder's
Third row left to right: Resolut, Mayser Superbe, Borsalino Amiata
Bottom row left to right: Mayser spezial, Panizza Super, Borsalino Rutenio, Wegener.
Sounds about right.
View attachment 165952
All of these hats are fine quality, good finishing and nice hand to the felt. Aside from the very different shades of grey and subtle differences in brim bindings, they all have fairly straight crowns (except the Wegener, which seems a bit bulbous). What sets them apart is their brim width, curve and flange.
View attachment 165953
Now why I wanted to do this comparison is to illustrate how what defines a homburg is debateable. Below I put together four hats to illustrate that point. From the top left to bottom right: Mayser Spezial, Borsalino Argento, Resolut and Panizza Super. Where there's not really a discussion that the Resolut with the wider brim and shallow brim curve is not really a homburg, the Panizza is already on the edge of being either a fedora with a brim curve or a homburg with a shallow curve and wider brim. The Mayser seems to cross the line into homburg territory more distinctly, but has a fairly flat flange and wider brim for a classic homburg. The Borsalino is the one with the clearest homburg shape.
View attachment 165954
These shots show these differences in brims for another set of hats. Top left to bottom right: Borsalino Argento, Latest Style, Mallory, Snyder's and Borsalino Rutenio.
View attachment 165955
View attachment 165956
And another group again with the brims viewed from the side. Top to bottom: Resolut (fairly flat flange and basically brim up type), Mayser Spezial (very flat flange front to back, but with distinctly inward curving brim edge), Borsalino Argento (gentle curve front to back and classic homburg flange), Mallory (fairly flat flange and wide brim -also has the tallest crown of them all) and finally the Borsalino Rutenio (sharper curve front to back combined with the classic homburg flange).
View attachment 165957

Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.

All of these hats are fine quality, good finishing and nice hand to the felt. Aside from the very different shades of grey and subtle differences in brim bindings, they all have fairly straight crowns (except the Wegener, which seems a bit bulbous). What sets them apart is their brim width, curve and flange.
View attachment 165953
Now why I wanted to do this comparison is to illustrate how what defines a homburg is debateable. Below I put together four hats to illustrate that point. From the top left to bottom right: Mayser Spezial, Borsalino Argento, Resolut and Panizza Super. Where there's not really a discussion that the Resolut with the wider brim and shallow brim curve is not really a homburg, the Panizza is already one the edge of being either a fedora with a brim curve or a homburg with a shallow curve and wider brim. The Mayser seems to cross the line into homburg territory more distinctly, but has a fairly flat flange and wider brim for a classic homburg. The Borsalino is the one with the clearest homburg shape.
View attachment 165954
These shots show these differences in brims for another set of hats. Top left to bottom right: Borsalino Argento, Latest Style, Mallory, Snyder's and Borsalino Rutenio.
View attachment 165955
View attachment 165956
And another group again with the brims viewed from the side. Top to bottom: Resolut (fairly flat flange and basically brim up type), Mayser Spezial (very flat flange front to back, but with distinctly inward curving brim edge), Borsalino Argento (gentle curve front to back and classic homburg flange), Mallory (fairly flat flange and wide brim -also has the tallest crown of them all) and finally the Borsalino Rutenio (sharper curve front to back combined with the classic homburg flange).
View attachment 165957

Nothing wrong with any of these, just different styles. You need all of them of course (and a few more). As a side note: not a hat for an adventurous bow apparently.[/QUOTE]

Love your pics and comparison. As Alan posted, the subtitles of your homburgs exemplify a serious collector. I have been studying the pics this morning and am in agreement that you need to collect even more as I really enjoy the show. The classic gray is very attractive.

Thanks very much for sharing. I do really enjoy this thread.

Best, Eric -

Daniele Tanto · Apr 25, 2019

steur said:
Here's another comparison. When is a homburg not a homburg? It seems I shot myself in the foot with this one bacause the intention was to compare the homburg hats I have in the classic grey with contrasting ribbon and brim binding. Well, here they are. There are eleven of them and there are still a few missing (two were hiding somewhere and one is at the hatter). And for the life of me I can't recall which hat was were at the time of the pictures exactly. I'm going to try anyway. I don't think I need to explain this is a colour combination I find very appealing (but it is a bit silly to have this many of them).

This is the magnificent orgy of grays

An extremely precise comparison with a sample of absolute quality participants. In the afternoon, I enjoyed a ranking of my favorites

Bravo Stefan e grazie!

Side By Side/ Hat Comparisons

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