A-2 jacket leather types? Rigid vs soft

Cheuk-Yin To · Aug 20, 2018

Hey all,

Could someone help briefly explain the differences between A-2 jacket leather materials, tanning, finishes, etc.?

I have my eyes set on an A-2 from Buzz Rickson's catalog, which describes the material as bronco hide, vegetable tanned, and casein finished. What is the difference between casein and aniline hand finished?

I've tried on several A-2s from The Real McCoy's and Buzz Rickson's before, and I've noticed that some leather is very thick and rigid, whereas others are soft and supple. I much prefer the thick and rigid feel. Is that a trait of a certain leather material, tanning process, or finish?

I would like to make sure that the jacket I have my eyes set on is of the thick and rigid leather variety before I place the order. My local stockist hasn't been of much help in this regard.

Looking forward to being educated! Thanks in advance.

Captain Sensible · Aug 20, 2018

I have an A-2 from Buzz Rickson William Gibson line. It is a rigid/stiff leather to begin with but it softens fairly quick with wear. I wouldn’t say the leather is especially thick, by the standards on here, but it is substantial and probably as thick as I’d want a jacket of this type to be.

Jeremiah · Aug 21, 2018

Most Veg tanned leather starts out stiff and needs broken in to soften it up. Chrome tanned leather usually requires no such breaking in, but there always is the exception and that being Lost Worlds for chrome tanned, but probably because they use a thicker than normal hide for their jackets.

Veg tanned when wet from rain will stiffen back up when dry and will need some sunshine or good massaging to get it back to being pliable. Chrome tanned resists water much better so won't go through the same stiffness when wet.

as for leather finishes, there are three types. Aniline, semi-aniline and pigment finished.

The first is the best and usually reserved for Full grain leathers. The dyes are less opaque than that of semi or pigment finished leathers. It absorbs water the easiest where veg tanned is concerned. Chrome tanned leather can have an aniline finish on it as well. Semi and pigment have a coating that makes it less water absorbent. it can feel more "vinyl like or plastic" when touched. The way its applied (hand, spray or drum dyed) will often dictate how it will come off with wear. Easy or not.

BTW, the majority of WWII era A2 jackets were chrome tanned and pigment finished.

Cheuk-Yin To · Aug 21, 2018

Thank you for the detailed response.

Attached are catalog images of the jacket I am considering. It is described as "Hand Aniline Casein Finished", made from bronco hide and vegetable tanned. Would this mean it's rigid or soft?

Some more product images here: http://eight-g.net/shopdetail/000000002022/

I'm not sure if I'm describing what I mean by "rigid or soft" clearly enough. I don't believe it's soft from being broken in, I think it's just the way the leather is.

Also attached are images of two A-2s I've previously bought second hand. The lighter coloured one on the left is from The Real McCoy's, and darker one on the right is Buzz Rickson's. The McCoy is soft, I would almost even describe it as flimsy, compared to the Buzz Rickson. The Buzz Rickson is rigid and can almost stand upright by itself when propped up against a wall. I'm aware it's a matter of personal preference, but I do much prefer the heavyweight feel of the Buzz Rickson.

What causes the difference between these two vastly different feeling leather jackets, and how can I identify them without actually trying them on in person?

Jeremiah · Aug 21, 2018

in that case, the only veg tanned leather I have ever touched that was as soft as chrome tanned leather can get is my Aero in Bill Kelso's victory horse hide. So its possible.
I used to own a Buzz Rickson RW. the hide was very soft where broken in and worn, but a little more vinyl feeling in the not so unbroken areas.

To answer your above question though, one would need to know how both were tanned and finished. Like I said, some LW jackets which are chrome tanned can stand on their own, though some veg tanned jackets can do the same when new. Depends on the hide too. Cow and Horse will be the toughest, yet most stiff. Goat is very tough but more supple and pliable. Sheep, very pliable and soft but not the strongest.

Some hides will go through a pre-distressing too which can affect the initial "hand" of the jacket. So lots of variables to work with in pin pointing the exact answer to your question.

BTW, that BR looks gnarly. If that were in my size and up for sale I would not hesitate to grab it.

Seb Lucas · Aug 21, 2018

All leathers will soften up but some start out that way. Generally goat will be softest, regardless of how it's processed.

It is usually a mistake to base a judgement of leather on what it's like new in the store. Its true hand and finish is a gradual unveiling arrived at after many hours of wear. The leather you end up with is often unrecognisable from what you first handled.

2jakes · Apr 6, 2019

Polo RLP A-2 tan leather jacket.
Single back leather no splits or side
entry pockets.
Cut military style... not baggy or wide
shoulders.
Most likely cowhide. Very well made.
Suggestions on how to soften a tad?

Jejupe · Apr 6, 2019

2jakes said:
Polo RLP A-2 tan leather jacket.
Single back leather no splits or side
entry pockets.
Cut military style... not baggy or wide
shoulders.
Most likely cowhide. Very well made.
Suggestions on how to soften a tad?

Get it wet and wear it until it dries. More like spray bottle or medium rain shower wet, not sunk in tub wet.

2jakes · Apr 6, 2019

Jejupe said:
Get it wet and wear it until it dries. More like spray bottle or medium rain shower wet, not sunk in tub wet.

Thank You!

Also....I was thinking of laying on the back
of my sofa chair, back of car seat when not
in used.
I read somewhere that Earhart laid the
jacket on the bed with a sheet overnight!

HoosierDaddy · Apr 7, 2019

How would laying the jacket down or hanging it anywhere help soften it ? I agree with spraying it with water and wearing.

2jakes · Apr 7, 2019

^^^^
It was just a thought.

Sloan1874 · Apr 7, 2019

Generally, I would just keep wearing it but if you get a decent cloudburst, then take it out for a walk and get it soaked. I remember having to walk home from work, two or three miles, in a torrential downpour. I was wearing my first FQHH Aero, and the rain was so relentless and heavy that it manage penetrate the top coat. It didn't get any further, I remained completely dry, but the jacket definitely felt 'damp'. So I let it dry naturally, which left it feeling slightly stiff, but after a couple of wears it softened considerably.

HoosierDaddy · Apr 7, 2019

Sorry Sloan, I see this all the time here, but who would want to purposely go out in a cloudburst to get his jacket and himself soaked when they sell spray bottles at the store? I can spray a jacket down, put it on, sit down in my leather chair to watch TV and let dry. Perhaps do it again all without having myself dripping wet and miserable.
HD

2jakes · Apr 7, 2019

Sloan1874 said:
Generally, I would just keep wearing it but if you get a decent cloudburst, then take it out for a walk and get it soaked. I remember having to walk home from work, two or three miles, in a torrential downpour. I was wearing my first FQHH Aero, and the rain was so relentless and heavy that it manage penetrate the top coat. It didn't get any further, I remained completely dry, but the jacket definitely felt 'damp'. So I let it dry naturally, which left it feeling slightly stiff, but after a couple of wears it softened considerably.

Glad it worked for you!

Mich486 · Apr 7, 2019

HoosierDaddy said:
Sorry Sloan, I see this all the time here, but who would want to purposely go out in a cloudburst to get his jacket and himself soaked when they sell spray bottles at the store? I can spray a jacket down, put it on, sit down in my leather chair to watch TV and let dry. Perhaps do it again all without having myself dripping wet and miserable.
HD

I think you have been repeating this same thing at least twice a week for as long as I’ve been here! We gotcha you don’t like getting soaked in the rain!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HoosierDaddy · Apr 7, 2019

Yeah..you're probably right Mich. Just can't imagine anyone wanting to get soaked in the rain. Did I say that before? Stay tuned for the same thing next week. If you don't like it ..too damn bad.

Mich486 · Apr 7, 2019

HoosierDaddy said:
Yeah..you're probably right Mich. Just can't imagine anyone wanting to get soaked in the rain. Did I say that before? Stay tuned for the same thing next week. If you don't like it ..too damn bad.

I don’t mind reading it, it’s almost comical at this point.

Wetting your jacket with a spray bottle and then wearing it on your sofa to dry is instead a perfectly normal behaviour

who doesn’t do that?!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HoosierDaddy · Apr 7, 2019

Glad I made you giggle.
Why your question has an easy answer...many here do that to hurry up the break in process. What do you think we are discussing here?
Are you laughing at us so hard that you can't comprehend the topic?

Sloan1874 · Apr 7, 2019

It was an unpleasant accident of circumstances that had me walking home in the rain - even worse, it was the depths of winter and the walk was all uphill! It’s just my little anecdote and an example of what can work. I’ve never repeated the experiment but it’s by far the heaviest of my jackets.

2jakes · Apr 7, 2019

A-2 jacket leather types? Rigid vs soft

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