The Fragmentation Of History

LizzieMaine · Apr 24, 2019

I think it was Moss Hart who said, when confronted by television for the first time, "Where was it said that mankind should have so much entertainment?" I think you could say the same thing about the Internet: "where was it said that humanity should have so much 'information'?"

tonyb · Apr 24, 2019

Gotta wonder how much of this sort of thing is finding convenient whipping boys because we can’t get our hands on the people we really wanna throttle.

LizzieMaine · Apr 24, 2019

vitanola said:
Thank heaven that TD has already gone on to his reward! That Clambake 7 revival of a then thirty year old tune would make him persona non grata today.

Actually, I can think of few popular artists of the first third of the last century whose recorded catalogues could survive the scrutiny given that of our "Songbird of the South", race performers included.

Cone to think of it, the "Long hairs" or classical performers of the period don't fare much better. Among others, Alma Gluck, Mabel Garrison, and Rosa Ponselle must these days all be strictly de trop

For that matter, those who think purging the Smith version of "God Bless America" and playing other versions is copacetic need to take a closer look at "The Complete Lyrics of Irving Berlin." The author of such tunes as "The Minstrel Parade," "When Abie Sings An Irish Song," and "Hey, Wop!" is hardly free of taint.

tonyb · Apr 24, 2019

I feel no personal sense of loss at the late Kate Smith’s recorded rendition of “God Bless America” being shelved at professional sports venues. I never much cared for the tune, or the singer, anyway.

However, I don’t so dislike it as to rejoice at what has become of it. My suggestion to those activist types is to choose their battles a bit more wisely. Alienating would-be allies ain’t the way to win. And besides, it makes them appear just plain silly in the eyes of many (most?) others.

SCOTUS rulings on the horizon will likely have them longing for the days when Kate Smith was the person most deserving of their opprobrium.

vitanola · Apr 24, 2019

I'd really not noticed this sad affair until it was brought to my attention here. I tried wading through some of the articles, and was appalled by the ignorant twaddle. Yes, there are parts of early Twentieth Century popular culture which most reasonable folks would find offensive today, but they are largely dead and buried.

I have acrew of men who do construction work for me, some of whom have rather rough backgrounds. A couple of them enjoy the music of a particularly outrageous performer named Kevin Gates. They tell me that I must make an effort to understand the context of his scatalogical and racist lyrics.

LizzieMaine said:
For that matter, those who think purging the Smith version of "God Bless America" and playing other versions is copacetic need to take a closer look at "The Complete Lyrics of Irving Berlin." The author of such tunes as "The Minstrel Parade," "When Abie Sings An Irish Song," and "Hey, Wop!" is hardly free of taint.

I don't know. Anyone who wrote "Do Your Duty Doctor" and "Sweet Marie, Make-a Rag-a Time-a Dance With-a Me!" cant be all bad.

LizzieMaine · Apr 24, 2019

Some of this, though, to be fair, is just the natural result of society moving on. I can remember "music appreciation" classes in grade school where I was taught that Stephen Foster was the greatest American songwriter. Irving Berlin was still alive then, and so were Richard Rodgers, Harry Warren, Ira Gershwin, and many others whom I grew up to consider much greater American songwriters than Stephen Foster, who was a corny figure out of the past. "Old Black Joe" was an embarassing, condescending relic of the nineteenth century, and the time came when it disappeared from our classroom music book.

And now it's the twenty first century, and all the songwriters whose work I came to appreciate are long dead and just as irrelevant to contemporary mores as Stephen Foster. In another fifty years nobody will remember (Insert Classic Rock-Era Songwriters Here) either. Time, as Mr. Van Voorhis so often said, Marches On.

vitanola · Apr 25, 2019

LizzieMaine said:
Some of this, though, to be fair, is just the natural result of society moving on. I can remember "music appreciation" classes in grade school where I was taught that Stephen Foster was the greatest American songwriter. Irving Berlin was still alive then, and so were Richard Rodgers, Harry Warren, Ira Gershwin, and many others whom I grew up to consider much greater American songwriters than Stephen Foster, who was a corny figure out of the past. "Old Black Joe" was an embarassing, condescending relic of the nineteenth century, and the time came when it disappeared from our classroom music book.

And now it's the twenty first century, and all the songwriters whose work I came to appreciate are long dead and just as irrelevant to contemporary mores as Stephen Foster. In another fifty years nobody will remember (Insert Classic Rock-Era Songwriters Here) either. Time, as Mr. Van Voorhis so often said, Marches On.

Yes, alas! They may fade into irrelevance, but "The Song of the Prune" shall forever remain the ageless gem of the American Hit Parade.

LizzieMaine · Apr 25, 2019

I've often thought our national anthem ought to be "The Pig Got Up And Slowly Walked Away."

scotrace · Apr 25, 2019

I live close enough to Kentucky to make Bardstown an easy long weekend trip, which my parents did when I was a kid. The house where "My Old Kentucky Home" was composed was a big attraction, and I wonder if it still is. Like Lizzie said, Stephen Foster was pretty dusty ages ago. It's hard to imagine that many people giving a rat's ass about him now.
My Old Kentucky Home house is not far from Hodgenville, where you can see the likely bogus Lincoln birthplace cabin. A profitable hoax enshrined in a marble temple.

LizzieMaine · Apr 25, 2019

The only people who care about Stephen Foster nowadays are horse-racing buffs, who are militant about singing MOKH on Derby Day. I had a former uncle-in-law who insisted on singing the unexpurgated lyrics in a very loud voice while watching the race on TV. In the 1990s. I imagine he still does so today. I'm glad I don't have to listen.

Foster was considered a back number by many even in the Era. When the ASCAP/NAB dispute was at its height in the early months of 1941, radio was flooded with versions of public-domain Foster songs, and listeners who were sick and tired of dance arrangements of "Jeannie With The Light Brown Hair" snapped off their radios in frustration.

Meanwhile, all the pundits have now weighed in on the Smith imbroglio, and as per usual not one of them has said anything of even the slightest substance. I went and listened the other night to one of the few surviving examples of "The Kate Smith Hour," a broadcast from 1937 with Eleanor Roosevelt as the special guest. If Pegler was still alive, he'd be having a field day with that.

Listening to that broadcast, though, summed up what always bugged me about Smith -- she was only thirty years old in 1937, but she comes across on the show like a fusty middle-aged small-town matron. You'd have no sense of what the America of 1937 was actually like from listening to her show, but you'd get a pretty good idea of what General Foods Corporation imagined its target audience of fusty middle-aged small-town matrons to be like. Then as now, show business was filled with personalities who were carefully manufactured to fit a marketing niche. I'd like to think that young Kate, after her broadcast, would go home to a funky apartment in the Village, unlace her corset, and go out jamming, but, alas, she probably didn't. Ted Collins didn't let her break character, even in private.

3fingers · Apr 25, 2019

Even the museums featuring people in our living memory are struggling to remain open. I can't imagine that Stephen Foster is drawing much interest.
Being from Illinois, we've never had any shortage of scammy Lincoln connections to try to draw an unwary tourist dollar.
Lincoln is a complicated story if you look beyond the propaganda. I've always thought had he survived his presidency the mythical aspect would have never gained much traction.

tonyb · Apr 25, 2019

LizzieMaine said:
The only people who care about Stephen Foster nowadays are horse-racing buffs, who are militant about singing MOKH on Derby Day. I had a former uncle-in-law who insisted on singing the unexpurgated lyrics in a very loud voice while watching the race on TV. In the 1990s. I imagine he still does so today. I'm glad I don't have to listen.

Foster was considered a back number by many even in the Era. When the ASCAP/NAB dispute was at its height in the early months of 1941, radio was flooded with versions of public-domain Foster songs, and listeners who were sick and tired of dance arrangements of "Jeannie With The Light Brown Hair" snapped off their radios in frustration.

The hell you say! I happen to be a Foster fanboy, and I wouldn’t know which end of the horse to feed.

The Jackal · Apr 25, 2019

This is the age of what I like to call "facebook outrage". People are looking for reasons to be mad, and don't care what it is they are mad about, or what any of the actual facts are, only that they can shout their anger as they so please. Even when presented with facts that directly contradict their claims, they dismiss them and continue their tirade.

GHT said:
In the King James Version of the bible, verse: 1
Proverbs 17:28 reads: Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
Twitter users often forget that their tweets are there forever, so while their opinions might change, their tweets remain the same.

Or as my momma always used to say, "you can keep your mouth shut and let them think you a fool, or open your mouth and prove them right"

LizzieMaine · Apr 25, 2019

3fingers said:
Even the museums featuring people in our living memory are struggling to remain open. I can't imagine that Stephen Foster is drawing much interest.
Being from Illinois, we've never had any shortage of scammy Lincoln connections to try to draw an unwary tourist dollar.
Lincoln is a complicated story if you look beyond the propaganda. I've always thought had he survived his presidency the mythical aspect would have never gained much traction.

There's a convenience store in a town near here called "Lincoln's General Store," complete with a giant picture of Abe himself on the sign. It was once actually owned by a couple named Lincoln, but subsequent owners decided the Presidential angle was worth milking. Just once I'd like to see something like "Harding's Liquor Store -- Ask About Our Back-Room Specials," but I guess the Boys aren't that imaginative.

GHT · Apr 25, 2019

tonyb said:
The hell you say! I happen to be a Foster fanboy, and I wouldn’t know which end of the horse to feed.

There's an easy way to find which end is which. Stick your finger in the horse's mouth!

Julian Shellhammer · Apr 25, 2019

The quality of the comments on this thread are intimidating; to add my comment would be like bringing a pb&j to a feast.

Nonetheless, I agree with LizzieMaine in the original post: too much thinking about an issue is filtered through "presentism," which is saying that the way it is now is the way it has always been. When filtered this way, any conclusion regarding a topic risks the effects of being atomistic, which is the "fragmented" view of history and society.

It is possible to say that single greatest factor driving this fragmented view of history is the role of technology in our lives, specifically the Internet. Instead of providing an "information superhighway" that can be utilized as a vast resource upon which to draw in order to form and shape our thinking, the Internet has become, in many cases, the quick fix that eliminates thinking, reasoning, research, and the consideration of multiple viewpoints, even conflicting viewpoints.

LizzieMaine · Apr 25, 2019

Exactly. And the whole Wikipedia "consensus" method of parsing facts -- if enough people agree something is true, then it is -- is not a valid method of determining whether something is true or false. What we end up with are loose, incoherent heaps of information with no structure underneath. Just because somebody dumped a pile of lumber in your yard doesn't mean you know how to build a house.

tonyb · Apr 26, 2019

Julian Shellhammer said:
The quality of the comments on this thread are intimidating; to add my comment would be like bringing a pb&j to a feast.

Nonetheless, I agree with LizzieMaine in the original post: too much thinking about an issue is filtered through "presentism," which is saying that the way it is now is the way it has always been. When filtered this way, any conclusion regarding a topic risks the effects of being atomistic, which is the "fragmented" view of history and society.

It is possible to say that single greatest factor driving this fragmented view of history is the role of technology in our lives, specifically the Internet. Instead of providing an "information superhighway" that can be utilized as a vast resource upon which to draw in order to form and shape our thinking, the Internet has become, in many cases, the quick fix that eliminates thinking, reasoning, research, and the consideration of multiple viewpoints, even conflicting viewpoints.

Sometimes a pb&j is just what the doctor ordered. Especially when it’s a quality pb&j.

GHT · Apr 26, 2019

LizzieMaine said:
Exactly. And the whole Wikipedia "consensus" method of parsing facts -- if enough people agree something is true, then it is -- is not a valid method of determining whether something is true or false.

Fake news is nothing new, Napoleon is depicted on his white charger, Marengo, leading his army over The Alps during the Italian campaign. But in fact he follows the army two days behind, riding a mule.
Jaques-Louis David was commissioned to paint the famous Marengo, whilst artist Paul Delaroche was much less glamorous. I know which I believe. It is as Edward observed, the victor writes the history.

LizzieMaine · Apr 26, 2019

tonyb said:
Sometimes a pb&j is just what the doctor ordered. Especially when it’s a quality pb&j.

I'm not a jelly eater, but the best peanut butter I ever had in my life is that government surplus stuff that used to come in a tin can. Nothing else -- least of all the gloppy stuff Procter and Gamble called peanut butter -- even came close.

The Fragmentation Of History

LizzieMaine

tonyb

LizzieMaine

tonyb

vitanola

I'll Lock Up

LizzieMaine

vitanola

I'll Lock Up

LizzieMaine

scotrace

Head Bartender

LizzieMaine

3fingers

One Too Many

tonyb

The Jackal

One of the Regulars

LizzieMaine

GHT

I'll Lock Up

Julian Shellhammer

Practically Family

LizzieMaine

tonyb

GHT

I'll Lock Up

LizzieMaine

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