M.C. Gannon Hat Company

moontheloon · Aug 29, 2019

JessieJames said:
The curled pencil brim absolutely makes a difference to the structural integrity of the hat.

it will make a difference in the brim getting "bacon" but will do nothing for a sagging break.
...and a sagging break is what you worry about the wider the brim gets

enjoy your beautiful hat

a hatter will always tell you that because they want to guarantee their work ... I took a chance and have seen zero ill effect or change in the brim in years of heavy wear

makitright · Aug 29, 2019

belfastboy said:
Yes, my wife is a 6 7/8 and I have purchased numerous vintage hats for her over the years. Never being willing to learn the lesson that she doesn't like the look of most men's hats. But I couldn't resist buying such great hats usually under $50. Didn't really matter that she didn't wear them at least I received the thrill of the hunt and purchase that I usually can't get at a fat 7 3/8.

I'm with you here for sure. I have done the same with my wife - but just once.
I can't figure it out, I think women look great in quality vintage mens fedoras. A large crowned, center pinched Homburg, worn low on the brow, is extremely hot on women.

JessieJames · Aug 29, 2019

moontheloon said:
it will make a difference in the brim getting "bacon" but will do nothing for a sagging break.
...and a sagging break is what you worry about the wider the brim gets

enjoy your beautiful hat

a hatter will always tell you that because they want to guarantee their work ... I took a chance and have seen zero ill effect or change in the brim in years of heavy wear

darn well good to know. What is a sagging break?
I remember reading on other posts about the curled brim helping to keep the whole hat a bit more structured when it came to flat brims. I guess like how a piece of paper folded will be stronger when you push down on it laying as an L on a surface.

I would love to "get my hands" on another Gannon dress weight and see the difference. With this Western weight I'm happy with it, and it was as expected but definitely nothing like my vintage Stetsons and nothing like the beaver felt from Europe that feels on par with the vintage Stetsons

moontheloon · Aug 29, 2019

JessieJames said:
darn well good to know. What is a sagging break?
I remember reading on other posts about the curled brim helping to keep the whole hat a bit more structured when it came to flat brims.

I would love to "get my hands" on another Gannon dress weight and see the difference. With this Western weight I'm happy with it, and it was as expected but definitely nothing like my vintage Stetsons and nothing like the beaver felt from Europe that feels on par with the vintage Stetsons

the "break" is where the brim meets the crown ... wider brims put more stress on the break.
especially a brim with no flange for extra support.
wider brims in lighter felt will often sag at the break.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

JessieJames said:
It is Michael who suggested going with the Western Weight. The curled pencil brim absolutely makes a difference to the structural integrity of the hat. I thought about putting one in my hat but I decided against it.

And other hatters I spoke to in Europe also said it would be impossible to achieve with the dress weight.

Interesting. I guess it has to do with the wide flat brim. My widest custom in dress weight is 2 7/8. My 3" has a 1/4" kettle curl. Some hatters don't have all the equipment and one expensive piece is a brim press. I have spoken to custom hatters and they have said that it is very hard to get the brim flat and to stay flat without the hydraulic brim press. If you want to go this route again give me a shout and I can direct you to hatter(s) with such a brim press and you might be able to get what you want in a dress weight.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

makitright said:
I'm with you here for sure. I have done the same with my wife - but just once.
I can't figure it out, I think women look great in quality vintage mens fedoras. A large crowned, center pinched Homburg, worn low on the brow, is extremely hot on women.

My thoughts exactly....damned if I was any good at convincing my wife of that. She did find a hat she loved and I commissioned a custom. So at least she has ONE fedora style that she loves.....but damn I still have the urge to buy her hats!

JessieJames · Aug 29, 2019

belfastboy said:
Interesting. I guess it has to do with the wide flat brim. My widest custom in dress weight is 2 7/8. My 3" has a 1/4" kettle curl. Some hatters don't have all the equipment and one expensive piece is a brim press. I have spoken to custom hatters and they have said that it is very hard to get the brim flat and to stay flat without the hydraulic brim press. If you want to go this route again give me a shout and I can direct you to hatter(s) with such a brim press and you might be able to get what you want in a dress weight.

oh interesting! What is a brim press? And which hatter(s) would this be so I know for the future?

a 2 7/8 to a 3" wouldn't be a huge difference. If I had gone down to 2 7/8 I wonder if I could have stayed in the dress weight WITHOUT any curled edges

makitright · Aug 29, 2019

My Gannon is 2 7/8" - dress weight. But it is snap brimmed flanged. I am thinking it would hold up to being a flat brim though.

deadlyhandsome · Aug 29, 2019

JessieJames said:
oh interesting! What is a brim press? And which hatter(s) would this be so I know for the future?

a 2 7/8 to a 3" wouldn't be a huge difference. If I had gone down to 2 7/8 I wonder if I could have stayed in the dress weight WITHOUT any curled edges

Have you watched this video?

Different hatter, but you get to see most of the processes involved in making a hat. I don’t feel bad about posting it in the Gannon thread as Art is retiring.

If you use a dress-weight felt you can add stiffeners to it if needed to give the hat more support or body. Personally, I love the thicker robust vintage western weight felts that, while not thin and clay-like, have their own charms. If I could only have one type of felt I wouldn’t chose them over dress weight, but it would be a close run match.

The current western felt that I’ve personally had experience with, including 100% beaver, is harsh and not nearly as appealing. I commissioned one custom using western weight felt and, while I really like the style and the craftsmanship, my first thought every time I touch it is that the felt is so disappointing. I also have a 100% beaver custom western using European sourced felt (presumably FEPSA) and while the hat is expertly made and the felt is wonderfully finished, the felt is still “hard” and nowhere near as nice as vintage westerns.

I’m all for trying new hatters and new felts, but in the end I don’t know if we’ll get anything measurably better than what an artist like Gannon can make us; although, Max and others do speak highly of the Heirloom felt that Optimo offers if the price doesn’t scare you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

It is an industrial looking press that heats and presses the brim between two sheets of metal and applies tons of pressure to flatten the brim. Mike at Northwest Hats in Eugene has one as does Art at VS. Mike told me that prior to getting the press he would spend an inordinate amount of time iron pressing brims trying to get them right. The brim press does it much more quickly and much more effectively. They can cost many thousands of dollars but Art found a millright from the old Beaver Hat factory that made his own version of it for much much less bringing it into the realm of doable for the limited production craftsmen. While hat making IS largely a hand process in certain steps along the way you can't beat machines in time nor quality.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

deadlyhandsome said:
Have you watched this video?

Different hatter, but you get to see most of the processes involved in making a hat. I don’t feel bad about posting it in the Gannon thread as Art is retiring.

If you use a dress-weight felt you can add stiffeners to it if needed to give the hat more support or body. Personally, I love the thicker robust vintage western weight felts that, while not thin and clay-like, have their own charms. If I could only have one type of felt I wouldn’t chose them over dress weight, but it would be a close run match.

The current western felt that I’ve personally had experience with, including 100% beaver, is harsh and not nearly as appealing. I commissioned one custom using western weight felt and, while I really like the style and the craftsmanship, my first thought every time I touch it is that the felt is so disappointing. I also have a 100% beaver custom western using European sourced felt (presumably FEPSA) and while the hat is expertly made and the felt is wonderfully finished, the felt is still “hard” and nowhere near as nice as vintage westerns.

I’m all for trying new hatters and new felts, but in the end I don’t know if we’ll get anything measurably better than what an artist like Gannon can make us; although, Max and others do speak highly of the Heirloom felt that Optimo offers if the price doesn’t scare you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have a 50/50 western weight as I wanted a hiking hat that could take the weather and a beating so knew I would get a stiff one. I have an older Beaver Brand western weight that has a real nice soft hand. I can actually squish the crown.

Hurricane Jack · Aug 29, 2019

JessieJames said:
I needed Western weight because I wanted a 3 inch flat brim raw edge.

moontheloon said:
... though it does have a slight pencil curl ... which I don't think make a whole lot of difference.

JessieJames said:
The curled pencil brim absolutely makes a difference to the structural integrity of the hat.

moontheloon said:
it will make a difference in the brim getting "bacon" but will do nothing for a sagging break.

For a while there has been a problem with Winchester dress weight bodies having brims too small for a 3" brim. I have been thru that with a couple of projects & Justin Williams has been waiting & going thru it currently. That is probably why Michael steered you towards Western weight; so you would be assured of getting the width you wanted.

Jessie, believe what Moon is telling you & not what others have posted. In dress weight felt a small kettle curl will not add strength or structural integrity to a 3" brim to keep it from sagging or waffling at the break. Only the amount of flange or cup in the width of the brim & the break from crown to brim can do that (& adding stiffener, of course). A small kettle curl can add a "bumper effect" to the brim, but that's all.

I have several dress weight hats with 3" brims, some with kettle curls & some without, some raw edge & some bound. I don't like a lot of cup in the flange so it can be done providing the hat body will make the 3" width. But 3" in a dress weight is probably the limit.

Gannon

Gannon

BSHW short nap Blue Heather with Halo-1 trim stitch

1990's Worth - Walden Raw Edge

Moore Hat Co.

Three FL members owned this Moore before it found it's way to me & I would bet every one of them would attest to how soft the felt is. Almost too soft to hold anything but it holds a 3" brim just fine.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
For a while there has been a problem with Winchester dress weight bodies having brims too small for a 3" brim. I have been thru that with a couple of projects & Justin Williams has been waiting & going thru it currently. That is probably why Michael steered you towards Western weight; so you would be assured of getting the width you wanted.

Jessie, believe what Moon is telling you & not what others have posted. In dress weight felt a small kettle curl will not add strength or structural integrity to a 3" brim to keep it from sagging or waffling at the break. Only the amount of flange or cup in the width of the brim & the break from crown to brim can do that (& adding stiffener, of course). A small kettle curl can add a "bumper effect" to the brim, but that's all.

I have several dress weight hats with 3" brims, some with kettle curls & some without, some raw edge & some bound. I don't like a lot of cup in the flange so it can be done providing the hat body will make the 3" width. But 3" in a dress weight is probably the limit.

Gannon
View attachment 182410
View attachment 182406

Gannon
View attachment 182404

BSHW short nap Blue Heather with Halo-1 trim stitch
View attachment 182409
View attachment 182407

1990's Worth - Walden Raw Edge
View attachment 182405

Moore Hat Co.
View attachment 182408

Three FL members owned this Moore before it found it's way to me & I would bet every one of them would attest to how soft the felt is. Almost too soft to hold anything but it holds a 3" brim just fine.

Damn, that Moore is a beauty. My hatter advised me that yes, he could get me 3" with a dress weight but not likely much more. And if I wanted a dead straight board like brim I might want to go western but he would have no problem delivering the dress weight flat.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
For a while there has been a problem with Winchester dress weight bodies having brims too small for a 3" brim. I have been thru that with a couple of projects & Justin Williams has been waiting & going thru it currently. That is probably why Michael steered you towards Western weight; so you would be assured of getting the width you wanted.

Jessie, believe what Moon is telling you & not what others have posted. In dress weight felt a small kettle curl will not add strength or structural integrity to a 3" brim to keep it from sagging or waffling at the break. Only the amount of flange or cup in the width of the brim & the break from crown to brim can do that (& adding stiffener, of course). A small kettle curl can add a "bumper effect" to the brim, but that's all.

I have several dress weight hats with 3" brims, some with kettle curls & some without, some raw edge & some bound. I don't like a lot of cup in the flange so it can be done providing the hat body will make the 3" width. But 3" in a dress weight is probably the limit.

Gannon
View attachment 182410
View attachment 182406

Gannon
View attachment 182404

BSHW short nap Blue Heather with Halo-1 trim stitch
View attachment 182409
View attachment 182407

1990's Worth - Walden Raw Edge
View attachment 182405

Moore Hat Co.
View attachment 182408

Three FL members owned this Moore before it found it's way to me & I would bet every one of them would attest to how soft the felt is. Almost too soft to hold anything but it holds a 3" brim just fine.

I have a very similar hat in a light grey heather from Bob @Blacksheep. It is a stunningly beautiful piece of work.

Hurricane Jack · Aug 29, 2019

belfastboy said:
I have a very similar hat in a light grey heather from Bob @Blacksheep. It is a stunningly beautiful piece of work.

Jared has one in gray Heather also.

Cornshucker77 · Aug 29, 2019

belfastboy said:
My thoughts exactly....damned if I was any good at convincing my wife of that. She did find a hat she loved and I commissioned a custom. So at least she has ONE fedora style that she loves.....but damn I still have the urge to buy her hats!

My wife refuses to wear a hat because of hat hair. Oh well, what can you do?

Cornshucker77 · Aug 29, 2019

Hurricane Jack said:
For a while there has been a problem with Winchester dress weight bodies having brims too small for a 3" brim. I have been thru that with a couple of projects & Justin Williams has been waiting & going thru it currently. That is probably why Michael steered you towards Western weight; so you would be assured of getting the width you wanted.

Jessie, believe what Moon is telling you & not what others have posted. In dress weight felt a small kettle curl will not add strength or structural integrity to a 3" brim to keep it from sagging or waffling at the break. Only the amount of flange or cup in the width of the brim & the break from crown to brim can do that (& adding stiffener, of course). A small kettle curl can add a "bumper effect" to the brim, but that's all.

I have several dress weight hats with 3" brims, some with kettle curls & some without, some raw edge & some bound. I don't like a lot of cup in the flange so it can be done providing the hat body will make the 3" width. But 3" in a dress weight is probably the limit.

Gannon
View attachment 182410
View attachment 182406

Gannon
View attachment 182404

BSHW short nap Blue Heather with Halo-1 trim stitch
View attachment 182409
View attachment 182407

1990's Worth - Walden Raw Edge
View attachment 182405

Moore Hat Co.
View attachment 182408

Three FL members owned this Moore before it found it's way to me & I would bet every one of them would attest to how soft the felt is. Almost too soft to hold anything but it holds a 3" brim just fine.

That is a great lineup Jack!

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

Cornshucker77 said:
My wife refuses to wear a hat because of hat hair. Oh well, what can you do?

Well my wife cannot use that excuse as she wears toques.....but then she is from Northern part of Canada where prudence dictates the necessity of a toque.

Cornshucker77 · Aug 29, 2019

belfastboy said:
Well my wife cannot use that excuse as she wears toques.....but then she is from Northern part of Canada where prudence dictates the necessity of a toque.

Maybe I can convince my wife to wear one. But I doubt it.

belfastboy · Aug 29, 2019

Cornshucker77 said:
Maybe I can convince my wife to wear one. But I doubt it.

The colder it gets the easier the convincin'

M.C. Gannon Hat Company

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