Eastman 'Warhorse' vs Aero 'Vicenza'

Skanstull · Sep 3, 2019

I would very much appreciate if you who have handled both Eastman's Warhorse leather, used in their A2's, and Aero's Vicenza leather, could tell me your view on if the Warhorse has indeed a softer hand (which is my hypothesis; hence how I phrase the question; but I have only handled Vicenza myself).

I first thought I'd ask if the Warhorse is a thinner hide, but what I really want to know is if it is softer and drapes differently than the Vicenza.

If anyone has any other comments on these two hides compared to each other, please comment on that as well.

Thuggee · Sep 4, 2019

Skanstull said:
I would very much appreciate if you who have handled both Eastman's Warhorse leather, used in their A2's, and Aero's Vicenza leather, could tell me your view on if the Warhorse has indeed a softer hand (which is my hypothesis; hence how I phrase the question; but I have only handled Vicenza myself).

I first thought I'd ask if the Warhorse is a thinner hide, but what I really want to know is if it is softer and drapes differently than the Vicenza.

If anyone has any other comments on these two hides compared to each other, please comment on that as well.

I have owned multiple jackets from both manufacturers in both leathers your asking about and without a doubt the Eastman Warhorse based on the jackets I own or owned was lighter/thinner and draped far better than Aero’s Vicenza out of the box from new, keeping In mind leather can and will vary from batch to batch so your mileage may vary.

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Superfluous · Sep 4, 2019

I have handled both. Eastman's Warhorse is palpably thinner and lighter than Aero's Vicenza.

Seb Lucas · Sep 4, 2019

Based on the Vicenza I have here that Eastman stuff must be pretty thin then like 2oz, close to fashion hide but nice.

Peter Mackin · Sep 4, 2019

I recently sold a Vicenza work coat,,still have my Eastman Aircomfort,,,very similar in my opinion either I have a really good Eastman or they have altered their warhorse.

jacketjunkie · Sep 4, 2019

The warhorse I handled was very thin. Nicer grain and look than vicenca imo, but yeh, significantly thinner.

nick123 · Sep 4, 2019

Warhorse=softer, more shirt-like/A-2 weight.

Vicenza=medium weight, initially slightly stiff

The lighter weight's not necessarily a bad thing.

Gav · Sep 4, 2019

My warhorse A-2 is plenty thick enough . Both are fantastic leathers

Fonzie · Sep 4, 2019

I have both and they seem pretty similar to me though.

Seb Lucas · Sep 5, 2019

nick123 said:
Warhorse=softer, more shirt-like/A-2 weight.

Vicenza=medium weight, initially slightly stiff

The lighter weight's not necessarily a bad thing.

Hmmm. As I understand it A2's were often 3oz hide (John Chapman's A2's are that weight) so that isn't light weight. It's substantial.

The words medium/thick and light/thin are used with cavalier lack of precision around here. What do they really mean?

3oz is described as medium weight by Vanson but medium weight at Aero is 2.2oz (as per their website).

Johnson leathers also describes 3oz as medium weight.

My Vicenza is around 2.2oz. It is clearly a lighter hide than my 2.5oz jackets.

Maybe we are simply talking about a range of hides we call "medium" or "thin" which weigh -in slightly differently.

Goat is often described as light weight, but all the goat I have had by reputable makers (not talking about that flimsy mall A2 goat hide here) is heavier (close to 3oz) than Vicenza and takes some breaking in.

And then there's the issue of each batch being slightly different both in weight and hand. And the other issue of some people confusing softness with lightness.

Clear as mud, huh?

Brettafett · Sep 5, 2019

Second most of what's been said above..
All these are superb leathers for an A-2.
My ELC Warhorse jackets did vary a bit. I guess this is as you say, dependant on the batch of leather used. All have worn is very quickly though. Great drape. None of them felt stiff or thin.
The Vicenza samples I have feel a bit thicker, but not by much, certainly a bit flat in colour in comparison. But this is subjective and comparing jackets with swatches.
Will add, on almost all of my jackets, the leather panels vary slightly. Some panels feel thicker, slightly more robust when comparing with other sections, which feel a touch more pliable. Same goes for grain, creasing and colour. A good thing.
I will honestly say my favourite hide to date is Platon's Seal Dubow. Gosh its nice. Its exactly like an original A-2 I owned for a while. The colour, feel and character... And how its wearing in. Feels a touch thicker, heavier than an ELC.
I am also sold on BK's Liberty hide, which has incredible grain and looks superb. My jacket is still relatively new, but I can already see its going to wear in beautifully. I love the colour. Its a touch lighter than Platon's, but again, looks exactly like most of the wartime seal A-2s I've seen. Love it.
Has anyone seen that 'new' warhorse from ELC? I saw a pic somewhere that looks like a sofa. Not jumping up and down over that.

nick123 · Sep 6, 2019

Seb Lucas said:
Hmmm. As I understand it A2's were often 3oz hide (John Chapman's A2's are that weight) so that isn't light weight. It's substantial.

The words medium/thick and light/thin are used with cavalier lack of precision around here. What do they really mean?

3oz is described as medium weight by Vanson but medium weight at Aero is 2.2oz (as per their website).

Johnson leathers also describes 3oz as medium weight.

My Vicenza is around 2.2oz. It is clearly a lighter hide than my 2.5oz jackets.

Maybe we are simply talking about a range of hides we call "medium" or "thin" which weigh -in slightly differently.

Goat is often described as light weight, but all the goat I have had by reputable makers (not talking about that flimsy mall A2 goat hide here) is heavier (close to 3oz) than Vicenza and takes some breaking in.

And then there's the issue of each batch being slightly different both in weight and hand. And the other issue of some people confusing softness with lightness.

Clear as mud, huh?

I think the wearer's perception of weight tends to be rather subjective. To the best of my memory, I recall the ELC feeling lighter than the Vic. Given my aptitude for accuracy I'd bet I actually have it backwards

And probably did confuse "feel" with actual weight. It gets murky, especially trying to recall jacket sensations from years ago...I can't provide a scientific answer here.

The ELC Star I had almost certainly felt lighter than John's current Shinki. He stated it was a bit on the thick side. Lighter as in "impressions of leather feel, not weight when worn".

Seb Lucas · Sep 6, 2019

nick123 said:
I think the wearer's perception of weight tends to be rather subjective. To the best of my memory, I recall the ELC feeling lighter than the Vic. Given my aptitude for accuracy I'd bet I actually have it backwards And probably did confuse "feel" with actual weight. It gets murky, especially trying to recall jacket sensations from years ago...I can't provide a scientific answer here.

The ELC Star I had almost certainly felt lighter than John's current Shinki. He stated it was a bit on the thick side. Lighter as in "impressions of leather feel, not weight when worn".

That's true. But there is a measurable, shall we say scientific difference, between an A2 in 3oz and one in 2.2oz.

Skyhawk · Sep 10, 2019

Seb Lucas said:
Hmmm. As I understand it A2's were often 3oz hide (John Chapman's A2's are that weight) so that isn't light weight. It's substantial.

The words medium/thick and light/thin are used with cavalier lack of precision around here. What do they really mean?

3oz is described as medium weight by Vanson but medium weight at Aero is 2.2oz (as per their website).

Johnson leathers also describes 3oz as medium weight.

My Vicenza is around 2.2oz. It is clearly a lighter hide than my 2.5oz jackets.

Maybe we are simply talking about a range of hides we call "medium" or "thin" which weigh -in slightly differently.

Goat is often described as light weight, but all the goat I have had by reputable makers (not talking about that flimsy mall A2 goat hide here) is heavier (close to 3oz) than Vicenza and takes some breaking in.

And then there's the issue of each batch being slightly different both in weight and hand. And the other issue of some people confusing softness with lightness.

Clear as mud, huh?

The War Horse I have handled was soft and pliable. I have not seen the Aero Vicenza in person. The Vicenza I have handled was not as soft as the War horse.

The problem with the oz rating is that every type leather has a different density. For instance, 1 oz of sheepskin vs 1 oz of Horsehide. The one oz of Sheep will be much thicker than the one oz of horse. That is if you go by true weight of 1 Square Foot of the hide / 16. Sure you can just use the thickness to determine "weight" by using a conversion chart, as is generally done in the leather industry. The problem is that 2 oz horse will feel, drape, and weigh a lot different than 2 oz sheep.

This is why it is a great practice to use actual thickness of the hide instead of the oz rating. We went this direction at Headwind Mfg Co using mm thickness instead of oz measurements. We believe it gives the customer a lot better idea of how the leather will feel and perform.

Original A-2's were specified to be under 3/64" that's around 1.2 mm thickness. Not exactly a thick hide compared to a lot of Motorcycle jackets. Note that the government used actual thickness of the hide and not an oz rating. This makes the spec easy to follow and removes the chances of conversion errors.

As many of us know, the specification was loosely followed at times with the feverish rush of production during WWII. Some original A-2's can be found with hide exceeding 1.2 mm.

Eastman 'Warhorse' vs Aero 'Vicenza'

Has Warhorse a softer hand than Vicenza?

Yes, Warhorse has a softer hand

No, the two hides are very similar, or Vicenza has a softer hand

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Eastman 'Warhorse' vs Aero 'Vicenza'

Has Warhorse a softer hand than Vicenza?

Yes, Warhorse has a softer hand

No, the two hides are very similar, or Vicenza has a softer hand

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