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Where's all this intolerance coming from??

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Edward

Edward

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LizzieMaine said:
We had a concert a few years back featuring a band that included a shofar -- an instrument of Jewish religious significance -- and the band member who played it took a moment to explain that significance to the audience. One member of the audience yelled an anti-Semitic comment in response.

I threw that person out.

Was I intolerant?

We had another concert featuring an opening act made up of two young women. A young man in the audience shouted out a suggestion that these young women should perform a certain act upon a part of his person.

I threw him out.

Was I intolerant?
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My point entirely.

LizzieMaine said:
I think the biggest structural problem with the internet is that it gives people with no control of their impulses -- or their mouths -- an outlet with no checks on it at all. It's one thing when Roy The Neighborhood Racist Asshole is popping off down at the corner bar, but when persons of global prominence are randomly free-associating every incoherent thought that comes out of their head on Twitter, it does tend to shade the discourse.
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There was a time when the commercial media would eventually find someone too 'much' for them - even nowadays it still happens. The problem is that nowadays once they've become that notorious that no commercial channel will touch them, they can still spew hatred via the web. I think the time is fast coming when the usual platitudes won't wash any longer and online service providers will be expected to take more responsibility for the content they host. Personally, I think that if they're making money by offering the platform, then they do owe a public duty to shoulder some responsibility for what they are complicit in making available.
 
Trenchfriend

Trenchfriend

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From the german view, I maybe mistake intolerance with tenseness and agressivness.

From the foreign view, we Germans must be seen as grim, depressive, dark-clothed autistics. ;)
 
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3fingers

3fingers

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LizzieMaine said:
Was I intolerant?
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In both cases I would vote no. Being ejected isn't enough for some people. If you choose to be an insufferable ass in public, correction with an axe handle would go far toward improving behavior.
If that means that I am intolerant so be it. I said above that my beliefs were a grab bag, and they are, but most can be boiled down to leave me alone and I'll return the favor.
 
Frunobulax

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LizzieMaine said:
We had a concert a few years back featuring a band that included a shofar -- an instrument of Jewish religious significance -- and the band member who played it took a moment to explain that significance to the audience. One member of the audience yelled an anti-Semitic comment in response.

I threw that person out.

Was I intolerant?

We had another concert featuring an opening act made up of two young women. A young man in the audience shouted out a suggestion that these young women should perform a certain act upon a part of his person.

I threw him out.

Was I intolerant?
Click to expand...
Yes, but like prejudice and discrimination, intolerance is desired when appropriate.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 
GHT

GHT

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Edward said:
There was a time when the commercial media would eventually find someone too 'much' for them - even nowadays it still happens. The problem is that nowadays once they've become that notorious that no commercial channel will touch them, they can still spew hatred via the web. I think the time is fast coming when the usual platitudes won't wash any longer and online service providers will be expected to take more responsibility for the content they host. Personally, I think that if they're making money by offering the platform, then they do owe a public duty to shoulder some responsibility for what they are complicit in making available.
Click to expand...
speakers corner.jpg

Quite so, Edward, if trolls were subjected to the same as they spout, as public speakers are to hecklers, they would soon think twice about the vile content of that which they prescribe to, defend, or attack with. Free speech isn't so free that it can incite, crush or slander others, about or for, their ethnicity, politics, sexuality or religious beliefs. In London there's a famous part of Hyde Park known as Speakers Corner, how long would internet trolls last on their soapbox at Speakers Corner, stripped of their anonymity?

A Speakers' Corner is an area where open-air public speaking, debate, and discussion are allowed. The original and best known is in the northeast corner of Hyde Park in London, England. Speakers here may talk on any subject, as long as the police consider their speeches lawful, although this right is not restricted to Speakers' Corner only. Contrary to popular belief, there is no immunity from the law, nor are any subjects prescribed, but in practice the police intervene only when they receive a complaint. On some occasions in the past, they have intervened on grounds of profanity.

Public riots broke out in the park in 1855, in protest over the Sunday Trading Bill, which forbade buying and selling on a Sunday, the only day working people had off. The riots were described by Karl Marx as the beginning of the English revolution.

The Chartist movement used Hyde Park as a point of assembly for workers' protests, but no permanent speaking location was established. The Reform League organised a massive demonstration in 1866 and then again in 1867, which compelled the government to extend the franchise to include most working-class men.

Speakers' Corner is often held up to demonstrate freedom of speech, as anyone can turn up unannounced and talk on almost any subject, although always at the risk of being heckled by regulars. The corner was frequented by Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, George Orwell, C. L. R. James, Walter Rodney, Ben Tillett, Marcus Garvey, Kwame Nkrumah, and William Morris.
 
tonyb

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LizzieMaine said:
We had a concert a few years back featuring a band that included a shofar -- an instrument of Jewish religious significance -- and the band member who played it took a moment to explain that significance to the audience. One member of the audience yelled an anti-Semitic comment in response.

I threw that person out.

Was I intolerant?

We had another concert featuring an opening act made up of two young women. A young man in the audience shouted out a suggestion that these young women should perform a certain act upon a part of his person.

I threw him out.

Was I intolerant?
Click to expand...

Yes, you were intolerant. As well you should have been.

Which further points to why “tolerance” is the wrong frame.

The people on the stage were there to perform. The people in the seats were there to take in those performances. The guys you bounced were directly interfering in that, and doing so in a demeaning, dehumanizing way. That behavior isn’t tolerable.

“We don’t stand for that kinda thing ’round here. We don’t tolerate it a’tall.”
 
LizzieMaine

LizzieMaine

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Exactly. "Freedom of Speech" in America means only that the United States Government can't pass a law silencing you -- unless you went to prison under the McCarren Act, but we don't talk about that anymore. But "freedom of speech" doesn't mean a venue manager has to put up with crap from patrons, no matter how much they paid to get in. Read the fine print on the back of any event ticket -- it's a revocable license, which may be revoked at any time.

It's the same way there is no "Freedom of Speech" at the Lounge. We have rules on what's allowed and what isn't, and we all know where that line is, even if we dance up to it from time to time. But we reserve the right to edit, silence, or bounce those who deny there's a line at all. If you want absolute freedom of speech go to 4chan and see what that leads to.
 
Trenchfriend

Trenchfriend

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LizzieMaine said:
Exactly. "Freedom of Speech" in America .
Click to expand...

We have "General freedom fo speech" by law, in old Germany. And the most Germans are too stupid to know the difference between "general" and "specific".
You can say, what you want, here, as long the german Criminal Code isn't touched. Especially §185/§186/§187, insult/defamatory statement/slander.
 
vitanola

vitanola

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Lean'n'mean said:
Let's face it, everyone is intolerant of other people & other people's opinions, some just happen to be better at masking it than others. This thread is a good example of it, under the guise of denouncing intolerance, a few posters have, albeit unwittingly, unmasked their own intolerance. Even if the human race started from scratch I'm sure it would end up where we are today, only my counterpart would be better looking than the current model.
Click to expand...
LizzieMaine said:
We had a concert a few years back featuring a band that included a shofar -- an instrument of Jewish religious significance -- and the band member who played it took a moment to explain that significance to the audience. One member of the audience yelled an anti-Semitic comment in response.

I threw that person out.

Was I intolerant?

We had another concert featuring an opening act made up of two young women. A young man in the audience shouted out a suggestion that these young women should perform a certain act upon a part of his person.

I threw him out.

Was I intolerant?
Click to expand...
Miss Maine, it is, alas, an unfortunate reality that some beknighted souls these days conflate simple decency with intolerance, bless their hearts.
 
Lean'n'mean

Lean'n'mean

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vitanola said:
Miss Maine, it is, alas, an unfortunate reality that some beknighted souls these days conflate simple decency with intolerance, bless their hearts.
Click to expand...

I think those unfortunate souls may also conflate beknighted with benighted & simple decency with common disdain. I won't bless them, not being religious and all but they do have my heartfelt sympathy. :rolleyes:
 
Lean'n'mean

Lean'n'mean

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LizzieMaine said:
I have no disdain whatever for those who post suchly. How 'bout them Washington Nationals?
Click to expand...

Just so we're clear Lizzie, none of my posts in this thread have refered to you or indeed your posts which are very hard to disagree with. ;) I can understand the confusion since we have been united by a third but my comment above was addressed uniquely to that third.
 
vitanola

vitanola

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Lean'n'mean said:
I think those unfortunate souls may also conflate beknighted with benighted & simple decency with common disdain. I won't bless them, not being religious and all but they do have my heartfelt sympathy. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well, thank you for pointing out my error!
The combination of a very long day at work and the cognitive decline incidental to my recent CVA have played the very deuce with my spelling and my typing. You should hear what they've done to my speech!

Now this may well be regional, but here in Hutaree country, when we hear someone complain of "intolerance", they generally are not suggesting that the Griffith film is excessively long. These days, in our area, the loudest complaints come from folks who are upset when called to account for actions such as Miss Maine described, or worse. It was to those BENIGHTED (thanks again!) souls and their fellow travelers that I was referring. In the self-absorbtion which often comes from exhaustion I neglected to remember that folks in other parts of the country yma have had very different experiences.
 
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