Tukwila
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I wonder if Steve @mayserwegener has this on his website.
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Panama Hat Thread
- Thread starter Burma Shave
- Start date
So no one on this forum can offer advice about how to whiten some "browned" areas of a panama hat? besides using"mild water and soap" does anyone know how to restore the WHITE color on a vintage panama ? I think i can fiure out the re-shaping and restore the sweats but i'd like to get an even white tone to the hat if possible..the browning is from loss of color, not stain or dirt BTW.
Bill Hughes
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The straw will darken over time. Even a bleached straw will darken. I would think it would take soaking in a chemical bath. But I would have no idea as to the chemicals needed.
Bill Hughes
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I would not think so.
Thanks for prompt response Bill...i take it back, i may have a bit of a challenge reshaping the crown, there are dimples around the "bone" area on top and on the sides of the crown..i guess steaming would be the way to go but what precautions can i take? i am concerned steaming it may take more of the color out, i already tried cleaning it with soap and water and the white towel had white color on it from the hat, so i can only summarize it removed more of the white, although it may be normal for this hat..i'm just thinking what happens when you wear the hat and it rains one day..
Bill Hughes
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If white came off on the towel then the straw has been dyed. I was thinking you were dealing with a natural or bleached straw. With either of those (natural or bleached) steaming is not an issue. I have no idea about a dyed straw.
Tukwila
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I've read mention before of a light acid solution to soak the straw clean but I forget the acid used or the dilution ratio... again, for natural straw, not dyed.
TheOldFashioned
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Wearing natural straw hats in the rain is usually avoided.
I actually just ran across this recently as I've been looking to clean a Panama straw boater. Both @moehawk and @Richard Morgan have used oxalic acid with some success. See this thread:
I picked up some Barkeepers Friend but haven't gotten around to working on the project yet. I figured I'd try something a little less aggressive first with soap and water and then maybe baby wipes.
re:rain, avoided yes but i was suggesting "in the unlikely event" after all its a hat...so depending where you live (NYC or London for example), you just might get wet..on a sunny day.
re:acid, i read the posting, and some suggest holding off on anything hard core..i too would want to wait till a "tried and tested" tip surfaces at some point..anyone done the "sunshine" test yet ?
re:Barkeepers, are you suggesting this to clean with or whiten ?
re:acid, i read the posting, and some suggest holding off on anything hard core..i too would want to wait till a "tried and tested" tip surfaces at some point..anyone done the "sunshine" test yet ?
re:Barkeepers, are you suggesting this to clean with or whiten ?
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Tukwila
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I have several Panama hats from Ecuador. They age and turn darker with time, and exposure to sunshine speeds up the process. Setting an Ecuadorian straw in the sunshine would not brighten the straw. "White" straw hats from the area are bleached white. I've watched the process at the Homero Ortega company in Cuenca, Ecuador. Although I understand the process in Montecristi uses something other than bleach to whiten the straw. Brent Black's website refers to this IIRC.
i didnt realize it would be complicated to whiten the hat..the browning is not "in your face" so to be honest its slight and i can live with it..infact the hat has other pressing problems like re-shaping and restoring the sweats..thinking ahead though i wonder when i attempt to steam to reshape, whether that would inadvertently remove the white color even more? Ofcourse i will use a thin fabric in-between the steam and hat..
TheOldFashioned
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My understanding of the process is to use Bar Keepers Friend to clean and lighten, not whiten. I imagine bleach or dye would be needed to whiten.
milandro
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The forum member Humanshoes ( I am indebted to him for this) suggested in another thread about equipment that I read this book “ Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating” which I did download.
[QUOTE="humanshoes, post: 2588258, member: 28145”]If you don't already have a copy of this wonderful book, then here's a link. Highly recommended reading for any hatter or hat lover. https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/20[/QUOTE]
The ancient Manual has an entire chapter (XXI) dedicated to this at page 118 ( I would suggest that it is rather dangerous to sulphur bleach but the first soda bath where I would start).
There are a number of pages on line where there are people whom suggest cleaning methods like here
https://www.wikihow.com/Clean-Straw-Hats
Then this is another manual “ Making over your old straw hat"
https://archive.org/stream/makingoveryourol1933unit/makingoveryourol1933unit_djvu.txt
Then there is a thread here ( Cleaning and Whitening a 50+year old Panama)
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/cleaning-and-whitening-a-50-year-old-panama-hat.80726/
There is more, out there , I would suggest you run a search as I did.
Good Luck!
[QUOTE="humanshoes, post: 2588258, member: 28145”]If you don't already have a copy of this wonderful book, then here's a link. Highly recommended reading for any hatter or hat lover. https://archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma/page/20[/QUOTE]
The ancient Manual has an entire chapter (XXI) dedicated to this at page 118 ( I would suggest that it is rather dangerous to sulphur bleach but the first soda bath where I would start).
There are a number of pages on line where there are people whom suggest cleaning methods like here
https://www.wikihow.com/Clean-Straw-Hats
Then this is another manual “ Making over your old straw hat"
https://archive.org/stream/makingoveryourol1933unit/makingoveryourol1933unit_djvu.txt
Then there is a thread here ( Cleaning and Whitening a 50+year old Panama)
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/cleaning-and-whitening-a-50-year-old-panama-hat.80726/
There is more, out there , I would suggest you run a search as I did.
Good Luck!
milandro
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You are welcome, remember that you need to take a lot of your hat apart before you can restore it.
Dipping in any liquid that already brittle sweatband ( which can be stuck onto some light canvas to provide some backing structure and the reattached) will destroy it. The overhead lining has to be carefully treated too. I would go with the peroxide method on the outside by careful application.
Dipping in any liquid that already brittle sweatband ( which can be stuck onto some light canvas to provide some backing structure and the reattached) will destroy it. The overhead lining has to be carefully treated too. I would go with the peroxide method on the outside by careful application.
i think removing the sweatband is quite risky given its condition..i was thinking of using some kind of glue to glue it onto the hat itself, there are no chunks of leather missing so if i can somehow align the leather exactly in place, i may be able to glue it to the body of hat..i do luv that linning too..btw this hat does have the circular lining starting at the center of the crown as suggested in some readings..so i do think its a panama..but what type/age of panama exactly continues to elude me..also, when held against light, you cannot see through the straw.
milandro
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I really wouldn’t do what you propose, but of course, it is your hat.
Even salvaging the sweatband is probably beyond the possibilities but if you REALLY want to, you should detach it and then glue it onto a canvas backing ( this is something that would be done in museum restoration of many brittle fabrics or leather ) Then take the entire backing and leather and reattach it, but that leather, in that state, would need some conditioning anyway and even so, it will probably not resist wearing, let alone more sweat degradation to come.
As for the rest of the hat, this hat has a lining that appears to be creating an isolation , seen from the outside the hat is not of that fine a quality that wouldn’t let light through because of its fine weave but if you don’t see it is because of the lining. But that coat of arms is stained by sweat (or something else) you can leave it or deal with it, IF you want to deal with it, you need a radical approach. Otherwise leave this as is. But really glueing the remaning sweatband will be very messy and ruin the hat. Dismounting the hat is, I believe the only way to restore as much as possible.
Go to see a reputable hat shop and ask their opinion. It may be that they have different ideas but the cost may be higher than the value.
Probably the best course of action, if you want to wear it, is replace the sweatband and simply keep the old one as a historic memento. It is very far gone, probably too far.
Even salvaging the sweatband is probably beyond the possibilities but if you REALLY want to, you should detach it and then glue it onto a canvas backing ( this is something that would be done in museum restoration of many brittle fabrics or leather ) Then take the entire backing and leather and reattach it, but that leather, in that state, would need some conditioning anyway and even so, it will probably not resist wearing, let alone more sweat degradation to come.
As for the rest of the hat, this hat has a lining that appears to be creating an isolation , seen from the outside the hat is not of that fine a quality that wouldn’t let light through because of its fine weave but if you don’t see it is because of the lining. But that coat of arms is stained by sweat (or something else) you can leave it or deal with it, IF you want to deal with it, you need a radical approach. Otherwise leave this as is. But really glueing the remaning sweatband will be very messy and ruin the hat. Dismounting the hat is, I believe the only way to restore as much as possible.
Go to see a reputable hat shop and ask their opinion. It may be that they have different ideas but the cost may be higher than the value.
Probably the best course of action, if you want to wear it, is replace the sweatband and simply keep the old one as a historic memento. It is very far gone, probably too far.
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Tukwila
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I wouldn't glue the sweat in place, either. That would cause real problems down the road.
Upon closer examination of your pictures, it does look as though the straw has been coated with some sort of shellac, paint or sealer. I would limit cleaning solutions to diluted soapy water, dabbed on with a clean white cloth.
Upon closer examination of your pictures, it does look as though the straw has been coated with some sort of shellac, paint or sealer. I would limit cleaning solutions to diluted soapy water, dabbed on with a clean white cloth.
milandro
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I too had suspected that the hat was coated somehow ( I think I mentioned that in my first comment).
As for the bleaching, the process that you’ve quoted https://www.brentblack.com/pages/tour2_page_05.html described and photographed by Brent Black appears to be the same as the one described in the ancient manual, it uses sulphur vapors (very dangerous in any context other than the open air!) very reminiscent of devilish evocations
.“..
Then he puts burning embers onto the sulfur and slides it all under the box.
The coals will burn the sulfur. The sulfur smoke will fill the closed box and bleach the straw. "
The straw will be left inside the box over night.
One could try dabbing with hydrogen peroxide (in a household concentration) on a tiny spot inside the hat and see what happens.
