Lapel issue - deforming and "prism-ing".

Lit Up · Nov 24, 2019

This is weird. Factory new jacket - the two pieces of the lapel leather on one side are not "stuck" together - instead both are flaring out away from each other, creating a "prism"-shaped void (think: Toblerone) and a crease on the inside lapel leather. This also looks weird when the jacket is worn as it sticks out.

This has not happened on any leather jacket I have owned. I understand that the two leather parts of each lapel may not be bonded with glue (although maybe some jackets are?) but I've never seen something like this where one side can be pulled apart like opening a carton of milk. It's off-putting.

What are your opinions on this? Please click to see the video clips. If you maximise the clips to fullscreen on desktop you can see them better (or zoom out 50%).

https://imgur.com/a/wPjUrpo

handymike · Nov 24, 2019

Sorry, I’m confused...
Is the stitching undone? Or you can separate up to the stitching?

Lit Up · Nov 24, 2019

The stitching is not undone. But the two pieces of leather forming the lapel don't stay together; they separate, forming a space inside the lapel, which then looks deformed. Does that link work?

handymike · Nov 24, 2019

The link worked, but I couldn't figure out the issue from the video.

Monitor · Nov 24, 2019

Lit Up said:
This is weird. Factory new jacket - the two pieces of the lapel leather on one side are not "stuck" together - instead both are flaring out away from each other, creating a "prism"-shaped void (think: Toblerone) and a crease on the inside lapel leather. This also looks weird when the jacket is worn as it sticks out.

This has not happened on any leather jacket I have owned. I understand that the two leather parts of each lapel may not be bonded with glue (although maybe some jackets are?) but I've never seen something like this where one side can be pulled apart like opening a carton of milk. It's off-putting.

What are your opinions on this? Please click to see the video clips. If you maximise the clips to fullscreen on desktop you can see them better (or zoom out 50%).

https://imgur.com/a/wPjUrpo

Huh. I know exactly what you mean. I've never had a cross zipper jacket where the two lapel panels were glued together but then again, I also don't remember noticing they'd baloon like this on their own. LL might be doing things differently so... Could be normal. It doesn't look bad.

Have you checked, perhaps, if the same thing is happening on their other cross zip jackets?

Lit Up · Nov 24, 2019

It's not happening on my two other LLs or any other LL I have handled. To compound the problem, this particular batch of horsehide seems quite lightweight, meaning that it flares out even easier, and making the jacket in question feel not worth the price tag. I know that batches of horsehide can vary, but I think this lapel issue may be a manufacturing problem or quirk with the machinist.

Bfd70 · Nov 24, 2019

Hard to tell from the link but it does not appear to the sort of thing that will get worse.

Monitor · Nov 24, 2019

It could be that the inside leather panel was cut too big. That's what it looks to me. It should bulge out like that. I think. . .

Didn't want to comment on the leather right away but yeah, it does seem particularly light and thin.

Psant25 · Nov 24, 2019

If you press it flat does another fold or crease pop up near an edge? If so I would think maybe one is too big

come to think of it i had an issue like this on a JL in 3.5 oz brown cow. The inside leather on the left would bunch up. I sent it back i was getting some other alteration done. I beleive he opened it up and glued it. There was a special term he used i cant recall. There was some adhesive remnants i could see. All in all it worked never had any issues after

ton312 · Nov 24, 2019

The hide looks too soft and thin to hold its form at all. Would be fine on a CR or dress collar. Not a cross zip.

navetsea · Nov 25, 2019

Its quite normal for the facing to separate from the outer shell, they will develop different creases too later on. The problem with cross zip is basically the lapel is an oversize facing, if your outer shell is creasing , doesnt always mean the lining is creasing the same way, especially if the shell is lighter than the quilted lining, so what you get is the facing inside looks has more material and bunching, while it is your outer shell that becomes narrower from set in creases around the shoulder under the arm, back etc.

regius · Nov 26, 2019

Interestingly my new LL lightning I’m glossy horsehide also has this characteristic. I first thought the underfacing was cut wrong size as the upper facing but when I laid it flat, the two pieces do match. It’s just the nature of the thinner horsehide

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lit Up · Nov 26, 2019

regius said:
Interestingly my new LL lightning I’m glossy horsehide also has this characteristic. I first thought the underfacing was cut wrong size as the upper facing but when I laid it flat, the two pieces do match. It’s just the nature of the thinner horsehide

So what do you think of this "characteristic"? Are you disappointed? I personally do not feel like I could purchase a jacket which is "thin glossy" hide. It looks and feels like a fashion jacket, but LL is meant to be about rugged motorcycle heritage. More to the point the lapels do this prism-ing thing. If I wanted to walk around with a Toblerone on my chest then I would. How many Toblerones could I buy with £815?

ton312 · Nov 26, 2019

I would return it. For that kind of $$ the hide should be exponentially better. I would expect a whole helluva lot more from LL and at that price point it has to be nothing short of perfect. Cost to quality doesn’t always pan out. I just returned an $800 Joe McCoy wool for the exact same reason. The wool was no better than Zara’s offering.

regius · Nov 28, 2019

Lit Up said:
This is weird. Factory new jacket - the two pieces of the lapel leather on one side are not "stuck" together - instead both are flaring out away from each other, creating a "prism"-shaped void (think: Toblerone) and a crease on the inside lapel leather. This also looks weird when the jacket is worn as it sticks out.

This has not happened on any leather jacket I have owned. I understand that the two leather parts of each lapel may not be bonded with glue (although maybe some jackets are?) but I've never seen something like this where one side can be pulled apart like opening a carton of milk. It's off-putting.

What are your opinions on this? Please click to see the video clips. If you maximise the clips to fullscreen on desktop you can see them better (or zoom out 50%).

https://imgur.com/a/wPjUrpo

Litup, Lewis has never, ever struck me as a serious motorcycle jacket maker, sorry to say. It's a British rendition of the heavy duty, true blue American biker jacket in the likes of Buco, Schott, Ward, Sears, Grais and then Vanson, Langlitz, Bates Cal etc. So I was expecting a fashion statement and rock n roll vibe from them to begin with.
With this in mind, it probably explained why I wasn't shocked to receive the glossy horsehide for my lightning (same as yours), it's no different than the glossy thin horsehide Eastman used on their current Luftwaffe and not different in tanning than that Legendary USA/Schott, Schott horsehide jackets, after the 00s, chemical smelling, plasticy, tanned in Italy....so on.
I would only find the prisming bothersome if it's really a defect, i.e. if the two panels are not cut the same size. It is not, the lapel can in fact be flattened.

It is unusual, but I think what'd truly bother me is the peeling of the coating, as discussed on another thread. However, LL told me that bad batch would show peeling fairly quickly and they don't use it any more. Considering the Eastman, the Schott alike all use heavily coated shiny horsehide, and I've never had peeling, I guess it's not a big deal.

Personally, after actually trying LL, I fell in love with the collar shape, the neck hole size and the overall vibe. It just suits me more than Schott. Schott collar are situated too high up, smaller neck hole, small lapel, narrow shoulder etc etc, just looks weird on me (they didn't use to, back in the 90s and 00s, when the arms were bigger and the material was more beefy).

dudewuttheheck · Nov 28, 2019

That looks quite poor. My cross zip jacket does not have that issue and it's made of deerskin, so I think either something is wrong with the leather itself or the leather on the inside panel is larger and not matched properly with the outside panel of leather.

Personally, I would not be OK with that and would send it back.

navetsea · Nov 28, 2019

I really think it is just the diamond quilt is overkill for the thin hide, lining should be lighter/ more pliable than the outer shell.

Lit Up · Nov 28, 2019

regius said:
Litup, Lewis has never, ever struck me as a serious motorcycle jacket maker, sorry to say. It's a British rendition of the heavy duty, true blue American biker jacket in the likes of Buco, Schott, Ward, Sears, Grais and then Vanson, Langlitz, Bates Cal etc. So I was expecting a fashion statement and rock n roll vibe from them to begin with.

Sure it's not what a biker concerned about safety would wear on the bike now (although I think some still do) but as you say it's meant to be "heavy duty" - in contrast to what I mean when I say "fashion jacket": something from Top Man, All Saints, high street crap like that. I own another LL jacket in black horsehide which does not have this lightweight feel and does not 'prism' on the lapels; I also own a Schott jacket which doesn't do this either. Indeed I bought a horsehide because I wanted a "heavy duty" feel, and if I had wanted a lighter hide I would have gone with the sheepskin. I've handled many horsehide jackets in LL shop which do not have this feature. Therefore I can only conclude that this batch of leather is lighter than what was used previously.

Lapel issue - deforming and "prism-ing".

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