USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

Thank you! That's disappointing. I intend to use it while vacationing in Alaska but the novelty of being the same type of coat I used in Canada was most of the appeal.

Here is a closer Image of the hood.

Raider47 said:

Thank you! That's disappointing. I intend to use it while vacationing in Alaska but the novelty of being the same type of coat I used in Canada was most of the appeal.

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I understand. I'll reiterate that I think you did well here: this looks like a really good quality parka. Keep it and wear it!

I get it, that some people want a coat which is vintage, or close to vintage. But if purely for function, which is to be warm, some of the modern retail items could be better.

I saw a friend's coat today. N-3B style pockets and removable fur trim on hood. It had down insulation, as opposed to polyester fill. DWR water resistant shell. Same length. Same baggy fit for layering. Actually looked to my untrained eye as an N-3B type parka. Not from a government contract. Sold by UniQlo.

Is that worth owning? Maybe not to a vintage military style collector. But I would wear it. I like it. I like the down. Reminds me of an Eddie Bauer parka I have.

It's interesting, at least to me, how popular down is right now. While it continues to be the paradigm of warmth, and what every textile company tries to beat in warmth-to-weight ratio, it's such a pain to maintain, and once it gets wet, it's useless. I suppose when you're talking about jackets that mostly need to be dry cleaned to maintain anyway, then whether it is a synthetic insulation or down is relatively unimportant. Still, if your use possibly involves water, or even extended use body moisture evaporation (how many of us are trekking Antarctica?), it's not a good material. Living and using in an urban environment, I would think washing would be an important factor, but who am I? I still can't fathom denim use without washing. Maybe a whole generation is being taught to be accustomed to sticking their clothes in a freezer instead of the washer. Why not a down jacket next to your pair of jeans next to the ice trays. Gross.

I believe UniQlo is a European brand. I only know it because Roger Federer dropped Nike sponsorship to be courted by UniQlo. I assume it must be on the higher scale. If Ralph Lauren can make nice military-inspired garments, I can see others doing a nice job as well. I'd wear one if it was good quality and smartly designed. I was given a "fashion" M-65 pre-internet age and before many designers were paying any attention to military garments, and it is a damn nice jacket. Unknowingly, it softened me up to the idea of military clothing not having to be actual surplus to be good.

Ernest P Shackleton said:

I believe UniQlo is a European brand.

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I looked it up. I didn't know either. Japan. I saw that there were stores in my area. I went to Union Square and checked it out.

I tried on a few things. Sizes are on the slim side. As in tight across my shoulder and back. To get a fit for my body, and be able to move, I would have to size up. I normally wear XL in the world US brands like Alpha. I need an XXL in UniQlo. Which makes it great for the slim fit look that a lot of people desire.

I saw that they also sell an M-51 inspired Fishtail Parka. Not mil-spec. Made of a proprietary weather resistant textile. Suppose to repel rain and wind, and breathable. Sort of like Hippora, GoreTex, and such. No liner. You can layer with modern Polartec like the military does.

Ernest P Shackleton said:

It's interesting, at least to me, how popular down is right now.

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When I was a kid, down was a luxury item. Goose down was not farm raised. Eddie Bauer had a down filled leather jacket which was literally a lifetime product if you kept leather conditioned. In today's market, down is suddenly very low priced. I am guessing that there is an unending supply of duck down and feathers from China.

I don't think about the politics of the product in the arena of global trade wars, or what PETA wants me to believe. With today's down costing less than half of down products from 1/4 century ago, and if you adjust the dollars for inflation, it's easy to see why it is popular again. A down jacket used to cost about 2 days wages. $100 making $5 an hour. Today, I can buy a down jacket for less than a 1/2 day's wage. $50 making $15 an hour.

Ernest P Shackleton said:

Unknowingly, it softened me up to the idea of military clothing not having to be actual surplus to be good.

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Mil-Spec isn't necessarily the best. Military also has a budget. There's plenty of room for improvement on government specifications.

Fifty150 said:

In today's market, down is suddenly very low priced. I am guessing that there is an unending supply of duck down and feathers from China.

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Like I said above, I have zero interest in owning a down garment of any use or style, but I do often look at care tags on jackets I see in the wild or if a friend's is laying around. I'm always curious to see that for some reason. 100% of them are coming from China, but also of note, all the ones I see purchased (not in stores) are coming from huge department stores, Sam's Club (which sells an Eddie Bauer line), etc. They also are a high percentage of duck down "and other feathers", whatever that means. Raking the chicken coops too?

It's difficult to put it in historical comparisons. 100 years ago, it was wool, down, or other ruffed up fibers. Then with the advent of plastics, you end up with crude versions of poly fill. But since the 80s, insulation research has exploded. In the late 80s, buying a sleeping bag was overwhelming. 3M alone had several new insulation technologies. And then globalization, which is why we safely attribute that coincidence of the US & European markets wanting these "puff jacket" styles and just so having a culture of several billions that eats waterfowl as a mainstay being THE clothing producer on the planet. A convenient storm there.

The popularity of down could be because of all these Chinese duck feathers getting put to use rather than ending up as landfill as the animal is part of their diet. So, it could be a smart use of a resource, thus cheaper than producing an insulation? I don't know. I do believe the fashion style of a puffy jacket is popular now because for several years now, there have been endless bootlegged versions of The North Face puff jackets. In my area, they even advertise on TV that they have "The North Face" puff jackets for under $50, and let's be real about it: there are no actual North Face jackets of this style that are $50. Anyone with any sense knows these are fakes, but that isn't a care. They're going for a style here, and that popularity has bled into other makers etc. And at less than $50 in most cases, you don't even have to dry clean the things. Just go buy another one when they get dirty. $20 to dry clean or a new jacket?

Ernest P Shackleton said:

all the ones I see purchased (not in stores) are coming from huge department stores, Sam's Club

at less than $50 in most cases, you don't even have to dry clean the things. Just go buy another one when they get dirty. $20 to dry clean or a new jacket?

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I think, at places like Costco, the entire jacket is only $20. I think that with the right combination of coupons, you can buy a Lands End jacket from Sears for about $20. Lands End, before being bought by Sears, sold decent quality down. Lands Ends sells what they call a "squall jacket" which is one of my favorite cold weather layering garments. In that line, there is also something called a "squall parka" which is similar to the N-3B. Actually, when it was still a mail order company, Lands End had pretty good quality. Lands End owned the Willis & Geiger brand.

Ernest P Shackleton said:

100 years ago, it was wool, down, or other ruffed up fibers. Then with the advent of plastics, you end up with crude versions of poly fill. But since the 80s, insulation research has exploded. In the late 80s, buying a sleeping bag was overwhelming. 3M alone had several new insulation technologies

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Right you are. In the case of the N-3B, it was a step away from the leather & wool, and a step towards technology with the nylon blend & polyfill. Even the real fur was replaced by a synthetic. Was that purely based on cost? Or was there a consideration that the synthetic fake fur was just as good, if not better? Modern synthetics such as Polartec made from recycled water bottles are good, and only going to be better.As a kid, my dad was adamant that natural material such as leather, wool, cotton, down, silk - was the best. But we are also talking about the age of pleather, and polyester leisure suits.

Take a look at the modern military. US has the ECWCS with multiple layers. Not for style, but for function, the final outer layer is incredible. Those puffy pants are extremely warm.

Fifty150 said:

Right you are. In the case of the N-3B, it was a step away from the leather & wool, and a step towards technology with the nylon blend & polyfill. Even the real fur was replaced by a synthetic. Was that purely based on cost? Or was there a consideration that the synthetic fake fur was just as good, if not better? Modern synthetics such as Polartec made from recycled water bottles are good, and only going to be better.As a kid, my dad was adamant that natural material such as leather, wool, cotton, down, silk - was the best. But we are also talking about the age of pleather, and polyester leisure suits.

Take a look at the modern military. US has the ECWCS with multiple layers. Not for style, but for function, the final outer layer is incredible. Those puffy pants are extremely warm.

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Stuff gets better and although sometimes wool and fur and whatnot is still warmer it's also much more difficult to clean and far more expensive to make (ask any tailor, good wool ain't cheap anymore). I posted photos in this thread of N3B parkas being worn at the Antarctic scientific station, which the USAF supports with flights. But those have been set aside recently in favour of more modern parkas, in particular the Canada Goose Expedition parkas which the following news item and photos from the USAF official website make clear.



Here's a useful link with info
https://www.antarcticsurplus.com/product/big-red-canada-goose-parka/?v=3e8d115eb4b3

The photos above show that they used these parkas in red and green. Canada Goose still makes them but they ain't cheap (and yes, they're down filled, haha).

Has anybody seen Valley Apparel?

the look of these jacket reminds me of
john carpenter remake of The Thing.

Ernest P Shackleton said:

It's interesting, at least to me, how popular down is right now. While it continues to be the paradigm of warmth, and what every textile company tries to beat in warmth-to-weight ratio, it's such a pain to maintain, and once it gets wet, it's useless. I suppose when you're talking about jackets that mostly need to be dry cleaned to maintain anyway, then whether it is a synthetic insulation or down is relatively unimportant. Still, if your use possibly involves water, or even extended use body moisture evaporation (how many of us are trekking Antarctica?), it's not a good material. Living and using in an urban environment, I would think washing would be an important factor, but who am I? I still can't fathom denim use without washing. Maybe a whole generation is being taught to be accustomed to sticking their clothes in a freezer instead of the washer. Why not a down jacket next to your pair of jeans next to the ice trays. Gross.

I believe UniQlo is a European brand. I only know it because Roger Federer dropped Nike sponsorship to be courted by UniQlo. I assume it must be on the higher scale. If Ralph Lauren can make nice military-inspired garments, I can see others doing a nice job as well. I'd wear one if it was good quality and smartly designed. I was given a "fashion" M-65 pre-internet age and before many designers were paying any attention to military garments, and it is a damn nice jacket. Unknowingly, it softened me up to the idea of military clothing not having to be actual surplus to be good.

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I even see puffer jacket worn here in equatorial tropics for style by young women, must be very puffy without giving off much warmth just for looks.

the idea of not washing jeans disgusted me a year ago, but in practice not washing doesn't equal not cleaning it up, just like your shoes or leather jacket, or your sofa, so I do a lot more care routine by dusting off with brush after every wear, vacuum clean, and airing, and flip the inside out and sun bathe them, rather than just simply toss them in washing machine. the idea of freezing it in the freezer is most likely the stuff they love to quote and re tell in the internet just for shock factor and click bait, yet only the dumbest of dumb would actually do it. But I also am not an outdoorsman who soils his jeans with sweat, mud, grass, and traces of animal manure.

navetsea said:

puffer jacket worn here in equatorial tropics for style by young women,

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Makes me think of those "light weight" non-insulated MA-1 jackets which fashion brands sell. Just the "look" of the jacket. None of the function. That being said, how many people are actually flying in open cockpit planes? Plenty of people wearing motorcycle jackets don't ride motorcycles.

navetsea said:

But I also am not an outdoorsman who soils his jeans with sweat, mud, grass, and traces of animal manure.

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Anyone who actually does any work in their jeans, will wash their jeans. You try telling a cowboy, knee deep in manure, not to wash his jeans to preserve the way they look.

same to your shoes, when you step on a manure you will also wash it, i just treat my jeans as I treat my shoes which is dirtier than my jeans will ever be. my point is not always the jeans or any other clothes need washing to clean it, and not always people who don't wash their jeans weekly will try to clean it by putting it in the freezer.

Fifty150 said:

Has anybody seen Valley Apparel?

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It looks like a dead copy of the Alpha parkas, or maybe even a re-badged Alpha.

I was wondering if anyone has physically seen, touched, and worn a Valley jacket.

Fifty150 said:

I was wondering if anyone has physically seen, touched, and worn a Valley jacket.

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That's the thing: I haven't seen anyone who has, and I haven't even seen any for sale. It's weird. The company has had nylon jackets on their website for several years, actually, but where are they in the real world? I'd have thought I'd see a few used ones filter through on e-bay, but no.

Doctor Damage said:

where are they in the real world?

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Amazon

Here's some photos of a Valley parka from a Japanese website:
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/jalana/item/valel-n3b-229/
And from a US website:
https://www.usarmynavystore.com/va-made-in-usa-n3b-sage-green

It's clearly a re-badged Alpha. They're identical in every detail.