Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

belfastboy · Feb 23, 2020

Lorenzo Casarini said:
Hello hello!
I’ve just cut the brim to a proper size.
I’ve also tried to fire up a piece of felt from the remain piece of brim I was throwing away.

I am not quite sure it had an effect on the stiffness of the cloth...
It’s fur felt and it doesn’t seem so stiff as I expected.
I’ve used the alcool I usually use to make liquors, do I have to use rubbing alcohol instead?

Is there any other way to stiff it up? Because firing up the alcool on the felt burned some of it and even thought it is quite badass that way I really don’t think it could be a good idea doing this process more than one or two times...
I don’t want to ruin my work on the hat, I want to be sure of what I’m doing before trying the firing on the hat itself.

Any idea?

Thank you very much! (As always)

P.s. I think I really own you a coffe, you are like a smart talking book for me

In the workshop this week I used shellac to stiffen the fur felt. It was easy to use (brush not spray). It dried quite quickly so made putting on multiple coats easy... I used thin coats so I could best control the stiffness and kept adding more coats til I got the stiffness I desired. I used a premix and if interested I can get you the name of it.

belfastboy · Feb 24, 2020

I think this is as good as any Thread to post my notes on the 5 day Fedora Making Workshop that I attended.

It was great fun, had a blast. The workshop ran for 5 straight days, 10:00AM to 4:00PM each day. The instructor provided one fur felt to work with. I figured that to maximize the time and $$$ outlay I would work on multiple hats, at least get them blocked and flanged, learn the techniques and work on them at home. The plan worked. I took two felts of my own that I picked up, one a Tonak antelope finish and the other a Winchester Beaver. The instructor provided a Czech felt but not Tonak.

First the bad: I need to read the course syllabus more thoroughly as it was not a Fedora workshop specifically but a course on all things hats. The instructor is not a Fedora maker per se but has years of experience as a milliner. So her approach was very different than what I have come to learn about the Fedora process. Thankfully I had Art's video to use as my guideline. The instructor gave up on me and just left me alone when she realized I was not going to follow her lead. The felt she provided was a nice soft rabbit but really too light weight for a fedora without shellac so it was a good thing I had 2 proper felts to work with. There were 10 of us in the class, 8 women, 2 men. The other guy was a juggler and wanted to make a stiff bowler type juggling hat so I ended up as the only fedora maker in the class. It was great as I had choice of any block/flange I wanted.

The first head butting with the instructor came when I was blocking and I realized I was clearly not going to get the crown and brim dimension I wanted out of the Winchester felt. She advised me to block it, flange it and then cut the crown from the brim. Then insert and sew in a separate piece to extend the crown to the height I desired. The ribbon work would cover the cut and insert. I refused!!! When she asked why I replied that I would likely get kicked out of The Lounge or even worse be publicly humiliated!!! Apparently in the world of women's hat separating the crown from the brim is standard practice.

Now the good: It was so much fun. I made two fedoras out of the felts I brought and they turned out very nicely. On the 4th day I had a brilliant idea to make a cloche type hat for my wife out of the lighter felt provided. That was fun although challenging as my sewing skills are terrible. My wife's hat has some finishing work to do but I won some valuable points from my wife as she loves it.

The Winchester beaver was a bugger to work with. Stiff and my arthritic thumbs are hurting from the blocking. It was a wrestling match. I finished blocking it and flanging it but did not quite get it big enough and the leather sweat buckled a bit when sewing it into the hat. I tried easing it out with my hat jack and ended up screwing up the crown. But the win was deciding to start all over again and I reblocked and reflanged it and the hat came out much better. It took a lot of pouncing to get the finish right.

Working with the Tonak was an entirely different experience. It was easy to block, ….no wrestling match at all. The Tonak is an Antelope finish somewhat sueded and I did not pounce at all.

I put a leather western hat band on the Winchester and I already had a bow that I liked to put on the Tonak. Sewing the sweats was relatively easy....just time consuming.

I have even more respect for the great hatters here on the Lounge now that I know what is required. I will work at getting some pics uploaded to show the finished product.

deadlyhandsome · Feb 24, 2020

belfastboy said:
I think this is as good as any Thread to post my notes on the 5 day Fedora Making Workshop that I attended.

It was great fun, had a blast. The workshop ran for 5 straight days, 10:00AM to 4:00PM each day. The instructor provided one fur felt to work with. I figured that to maximize the time and $$$ outlay I would work on multiple hats, at least get them blocked and flanged, learn the techniques and work on them at home. The plan worked. I took two felts of my own that I picked up, one a Tonak antelope finish and the other a Winchester Beaver. The instructor provided a Czech felt but not Tonak.

First the bad: I need to read the course syllabus more thoroughly as it was not a Fedora workshop specifically but a course on all things hats. The instructor is not a Fedora maker per se but has years of experience as a milliner. So her approach was very different than what I have come to learn about the Fedora process. Thankfully I had Art's video to use as my guideline. The instructor gave up on me and just left me alone when she realized I was not going to follow her lead. The felt she provided was a nice soft rabbit but really too light weight for a fedora without shellac so it was a good thing I had 2 proper felts to work with. There were 10 of us in the class, 8 women, 2 men. The other guy was a juggler and wanted to make a stiff bowler type juggling hat so I ended up as the only fedora maker in the class. It was great as I had choice of any block/flange I wanted.

The first head butting with the instructor came when I was blocking and I realized I was clearly not going to get the crown and brim dimension I wanted out of the Winchester felt. She advised me to block it, flange it and then cut the crown from the brim. Then insert and sew in a separate piece to extend the crown to the height I desired. The ribbon work would cover the cut and insert. I refused!!! When she asked why I replied that I would likely get kicked out of The Lounge or even worse be publicly humiliated!!! Apparently in the world of women's hat separating the crown from the brim is standard practice.

Now the good: It was so much fun. I made two fedoras out of the felts I brought and they turned out very nicely. On the 4th day I had a brilliant idea to make a cloche type hat for my wife out of the lighter felt provided. That was fun although challenging as my sewing skills are terrible. My wife's hat has some finishing work to do but I won some valuable points from my wife as she loves it.

The Winchester beaver was a bugger to work with. Stiff and my arthritic thumbs are hurting from the blocking. It was a wrestling match. I finished blocking it and flanging it but did not quite get it big enough and the leather sweat buckled a bit when sewing it into the hat. I tried easing it out with my hat jack and ended up screwing up the crown. But the win was deciding to start all over again and I reblocked and reflanged it and the hat came out much better. It took a lot of pouncing to get the finish right.

Working with the Tonak was an entirely different experience. It was easy to block, ….no wrestling match at all. The Tonak is an Antelope finish somewhat sueded and I did not pounce at all.

I put a leather western hat band on the Winchester and I already had a bow that I liked to put on the Tonak. Sewing the sweats was relatively easy....just time consuming.

I have even more respect for the great hatters here on the Lounge now that I know what is required. I will work at getting some pics uploaded to show the finished product.

Where’s the photos?????

T Jones · Feb 24, 2020

Lorenzo Casarini said:
Here’s my first hat guys!
What do you think about it? I would like to have a review

It turned out better than my first hat. My first one was a beast to work on...I decided not to wear it.

Frunobulax · Feb 24, 2020

belfastboy said:
I think this is as good as any Thread to post my notes on the 5 day Fedora Making Workshop that I attended.

It was great fun, had a blast. The workshop ran for 5 straight days, 10:00AM to 4:00PM each day. The instructor provided one fur felt to work with. I figured that to maximize the time and $$$ outlay I would work on multiple hats, at least get them blocked and flanged, learn the techniques and work on them at home. The plan worked. I took two felts of my own that I picked up, one a Tonak antelope finish and the other a Winchester Beaver. The instructor provided a Czech felt but not Tonak.

First the bad: I need to read the course syllabus more thoroughly as it was not a Fedora workshop specifically but a course on all things hats. The instructor is not a Fedora maker per se but has years of experience as a milliner. So her approach was very different than what I have come to learn about the Fedora process. Thankfully I had Art's video to use as my guideline. The instructor gave up on me and just left me alone when she realized I was not going to follow her lead. The felt she provided was a nice soft rabbit but really too light weight for a fedora without shellac so it was a good thing I had 2 proper felts to work with. There were 10 of us in the class, 8 women, 2 men. The other guy was a juggler and wanted to make a stiff bowler type juggling hat so I ended up as the only fedora maker in the class. It was great as I had choice of any block/flange I wanted.

The first head butting with the instructor came when I was blocking and I realized I was clearly not going to get the crown and brim dimension I wanted out of the Winchester felt. She advised me to block it, flange it and then cut the crown from the brim. Then insert and sew in a separate piece to extend the crown to the height I desired. The ribbon work would cover the cut and insert. I refused!!! When she asked why I replied that I would likely get kicked out of The Lounge or even worse be publicly humiliated!!! Apparently in the world of women's hat separating the crown from the brim is standard practice.

Now the good: It was so much fun. I made two fedoras out of the felts I brought and they turned out very nicely. On the 4th day I had a brilliant idea to make a cloche type hat for my wife out of the lighter felt provided. That was fun although challenging as my sewing skills are terrible. My wife's hat has some finishing work to do but I won some valuable points from my wife as she loves it.

The Winchester beaver was a bugger to work with. Stiff and my arthritic thumbs are hurting from the blocking. It was a wrestling match. I finished blocking it and flanging it but did not quite get it big enough and the leather sweat buckled a bit when sewing it into the hat. I tried easing it out with my hat jack and ended up screwing up the crown. But the win was deciding to start all over again and I reblocked and reflanged it and the hat came out much better. It took a lot of pouncing to get the finish right.

Working with the Tonak was an entirely different experience. It was easy to block, ….no wrestling match at all. The Tonak is an Antelope finish somewhat sueded and I did not pounce at all.

I put a leather western hat band on the Winchester and I already had a bow that I liked to put on the Tonak. Sewing the sweats was relatively easy....just time consuming.

I have even more respect for the great hatters here on the Lounge now that I know what is required. I will work at getting some pics uploaded to show the finished product.

Great! I've been looking forward to your report. Thanks for sharing.

belfastboy · Feb 24, 2020

deadlyhandsome said:
Where’s the photos?????

Working on it. Don't have data on my phone. Won't load photos from computer as the files are too big. Going to try my tab camera and see if I can load from Tapatalk from it.

ChicagoWayVito · Feb 24, 2020

belfastboy said:
She advised me to block it, flange it and then cut the crown from the brim. Then insert and sew in a separate piece to extend the crown to the height I desired. The ribbon work would cover the cut and insert. I refused!!! When she asked why I replied that I would likely get kicked out of The Lounge or even worse be publicly humiliated!!! Apparently in the world of women's hat separating the crown from the brim is standard practice.

You could have done this approach and made yourself a nice Dualist Fedora, that is honestly how it is done. Just typically matched with a different material and color on the brim. You could do felt crown with straw brim and vice-versa. So you could have sold it to us and not received any public humiliation.

belfastboy · Feb 25, 2020

ChicagoWayVito said:
You could have done this approach and made yourself a nice Dualist Fedora, that is honestly how it is done. Just typically matched with a different material and color on the brim. You could do felt crown with straw brim and vice-versa. So you could have sold it to us and not received any public humiliation.

I gave this a very brief consideration but thought best to walk abit before I attempt to run.....especially with scissors in hand.

belfastboy · Feb 25, 2020

belfastboy said:
Working on it. Don't have data on my phone. Won't load photos from computer as the files are too big. Going to try my tab camera and see if I can load from Tapatalk from it.

Here are the pics of my 3 hats. My wife's hat has a long way to go in the finishing. If I stop farting around I will begin to hand sew the brim binding and then clean up the silk band and bow. Then sew in the leather sweat and liner. The first pic is the block stand and tollicker I built out of scrap wood in the garage. Not pretty but it did work. Oh and the lovely liner is one I have purchased from our Moehawk here on the Lounge.

Art Fawcett · Feb 26, 2020

belfastboy said:
I think this is as good as any Thread to post my notes on the 5 day Fedora Making Workshop that I attended.

It was great fun, had a blast. The workshop ran for 5 straight days, 10:00AM to 4:00PM each day. The instructor provided one fur felt to work with. I figured that to maximize the time and $$$ outlay I would work on multiple hats, at least get them blocked and flanged, learn the techniques and work on them at home. The plan worked. I took two felts of my own that I picked up, one a Tonak antelope finish and the other a Winchester Beaver. The instructor provided a Czech felt but not Tonak.

First the bad: I need to read the course syllabus more thoroughly as it was not a Fedora workshop specifically but a course on all things hats. The instructor is not a Fedora maker per se but has years of experience as a milliner. So her approach was very different than what I have come to learn about the Fedora process. Thankfully I had Art's video to use as my guideline. The instructor gave up on me and just left me alone when she realized I was not going to follow her lead. The felt she provided was a nice soft rabbit but really too light weight for a fedora without shellac so it was a good thing I had 2 proper felts to work with. There were 10 of us in the class, 8 women, 2 men. The other guy was a juggler and wanted to make a stiff bowler type juggling hat so I ended up as the only fedora maker in the class. It was great as I had choice of any block/flange I wanted.

The first head butting with the instructor came when I was blocking and I realized I was clearly not going to get the crown and brim dimension I wanted out of the Winchester felt. She advised me to block it, flange it and then cut the crown from the brim. Then insert and sew in a separate piece to extend the crown to the height I desired. The ribbon work would cover the cut and insert. I refused!!! When she asked why I replied that I would likely get kicked out of The Lounge or even worse be publicly humiliated!!! Apparently in the world of women's hat separating the crown from the brim is standard practice.

Now the good: It was so much fun. I made two fedoras out of the felts I brought and they turned out very nicely. On the 4th day I had a brilliant idea to make a cloche type hat for my wife out of the lighter felt provided. That was fun although challenging as my sewing skills are terrible. My wife's hat has some finishing work to do but I won some valuable points from my wife as she loves it.

The Winchester beaver was a bugger to work with. Stiff and my arthritic thumbs are hurting from the blocking. It was a wrestling match. I finished blocking it and flanging it but did not quite get it big enough and the leather sweat buckled a bit when sewing it into the hat. I tried easing it out with my hat jack and ended up screwing up the crown. But the win was deciding to start all over again and I reblocked and reflanged it and the hat came out much better. It took a lot of pouncing to get the finish right.

Working with the Tonak was an entirely different experience. It was easy to block, ….no wrestling match at all. The Tonak is an Antelope finish somewhat sueded and I did not pounce at all.

I put a leather western hat band on the Winchester and I already had a bow that I liked to put on the Tonak. Sewing the sweats was relatively easy....just time consuming.

I have even more respect for the great hatters here on the Lounge now that I know what is required. I will work at getting some pics uploaded to show the finished product.

I feel your pain Sir, arthritic thumbs are no fun. The reason most likely that you had more trouble with the beaver was simply density. Beaver felts are much more dense the rabbit, thus making rabbit easier to pull onto the block. Beaver requires much more steam so I suspect you didn't have enough. I see that it's a pastel body which is good, black would have been even tougher. Also, I don't know if you are aware but the bodies come pre blocked in different sizes so you might have had one blocked too small initially.
I'm glad you had fun

belfastboy · Feb 26, 2020

Art Fawcett said:
I feel your pain Sir, arthritic thumbs are no fun. The reason most likely that you had more trouble with the beaver was simply density. Beaver felts are much more dense the rabbit, thus making rabbit easier to pull onto the block. Beaver requires much more steam so I suspect you didn't have enough. I see that it's a pastel body which is good, black would have been even tougher. Also, I don't know if you are aware but the bodies come pre blocked in different sizes so you might have had one blocked too small initially.
I'm glad you had fun

Thanks, I just had my hand held Rowenta steamer that puts out a decent amount of steam for clothing purposes but likely inadequate for the beaver felt. The class just used pots of boiling water and rather than wait around for my turn I brought my own source. Today I am resewing the leather sweat in the Tonak as I screwed it up the first time and the sweat slipped down too far. The good news is I am much quicker the second time through!

belfastboy · Feb 29, 2020

I attempted to hand sew the brim binding on the little cloche hat I made for my wife. Damn, being blind is a great impediment. I asked my wife, a competent sewer to machine stitch it for us and she agreed. I am thinking if I were to attempt it I would need something like a forehead mounted magnifying glass so I could see the stitches. I am loathe to attempt it on her machine as it is her baby and I fear screwing it up.
So today I will attempt to sew the silk ribbon work....not as exacting as the brim sewing so I shall muddle through.....I think.

belfastboy · Feb 29, 2020

I just closed a deal for a set of 4 vintage wooden flanges, 2 5/8" wide x 7 1/4 up to 7 5/8. They were on Ebay out of Quebec, Canada and got a screaming good price when I made an offer for all 4. I am in a bit of shock as I had no intention of buying them but......and here I am a new proud owner!

Art Fawcett · Feb 29, 2020

belfastboy said:
I just closed a deal for a set of 4 vintage wooden flanges, 2 5/8" wide x 7 1/4 up to 7 5/8. They were on Ebay out of Quebec, Canada and got a screaming good price when I made an offer for all 4. I am in a bit of shock as I had no intention of buying them but......and here I am a new proud owner!

LOL, it happens this way Sir. Next will be the flange stand, then brim irons, then plater, then, then,

Art Fawcett · Feb 29, 2020

Everyone please be aware that I did not sell all of my equipment with the business and will be offering it first here on the Lounge. Keep an eye on the classifieds as I kept all of my bodies, approx 20K yards of vintage ribbon, many panama bodies, blocks flanges, etc. New hatters out there, here is your chance to save some money and get started in the biz

belfastboy · Feb 29, 2020

Art Fawcett said:
LOL, it happens this way Sir. Next will be the flange stand, then brim irons, then plater, then, then,

Yes, I have to remember to stop the slipper slope before it becomes too slippery. I am in the process of making a flange stand

Art Fawcett said:
LOL, it happens this way Sir. Next will be the flange stand, then brim irons, then plater, then, then,

I am in the process of completing the build of my flange stand so now need to answer the question: how many hats will I make and can I justify buying a Rounding Jack?

Art Fawcett · Feb 29, 2020

belfastboy said:
Yes, I have to remember to stop the slipper slope before it becomes too slippery. I am in the process of making a flange stand

I am in the process of completing the build of my flange stand so now need to answer the question: how many hats will I make and can I justify buying a Rounding Jack?

It never ends

Armando · Mar 1, 2020

I just bought a JUKI sewing machine to attach the leather sweat band. I can’t get a good angle. Any suggestions? Perhaps I need another foot to press on the sweatband side while the sewing foot takes on the crown. Help! Thanks.

humanshoes · Mar 1, 2020

belfastboy said:
Yes, I have to remember to stop the slipper slope before it becomes too slippery. I am in the process of making a flange stand

I am in the process of completing the build of my flange stand so now need to answer the question: how many hats will I make and can I justify buying a Rounding Jack?

Welcome to the tea party bb. Alice and I and the rest of the gang have been waiting for you.

T Jones · Mar 2, 2020

Some rules I've applied to myself.

Not to spend beyond my means. I'm starting small and have collected a few basic tools, a few blocks, some flanges, and other hand tools I need to get the job done, puller downer, pusher downer, rounding jack, band block.,etc ...

I'm not putting money into expensive equipment that I don't know how to use, and will probably never use, or that needs major repairs. I'm a hobbyist at this point and I'm not mass producing custom built hats so I don't need a lot of expensive equipment at this time.

I plan to stay small for the time being and make hats in just three of the most popular sizes to get started.

What I make will probably end up on Etsy. Sell a few hats and save that money to buy more tools and materials that I'll need.

Grow at a pace that's sustainable for me to avoid getting burnt out. But first, I need to get past a few other issues to get things off the ground.

Everything in its own time. No need to rush myself into anxiety.

Just my personal rules.

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