My new LW J23 arrrived!

Hh121 said:

"shinki which he said is the xx, that's the only comment he gave."

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JMax said:

Who does half up front and the rest after delivery? Serious question. I’ve only bought new from LW, Vanson (and collaboration partners), and TB for the Aero. I paid in full at time of order with all. If you tell me I’ve been doing it wrong, I am going to refill my glass with more Suntory whiskey and call it a day.

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zebedee said:

I'm curious as to why he'd say this (or at least how a person would say this without revealing the obvious vulnerability or insecurity). Is it the shininess he doesn't like, or the makers who use it, or the way it's tanned? Or is it a long-buried, media-sublimated Pearl Harbour trauma?

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ton312 said:

Aero and Vanson never charged me a dime before the jacket was done and pictures were sent. THurston didn’t used to charge beyond a deposit. Maybe times have changed? I bought my LW in 2010, when Stu did a summer sale and knocked off 20%. It was for that reason alone I didn’t complain.

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JMax said:

He quickly stated to me that it is overpriced and doesn’t look as good as his HH. A quick blurb totally within the context of our conversation. If I had known this topic would result in such discussion here, I would have probed for details.

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Superfluous said:

I am one of those who annoyed Stuart with such a request. I would love to own a LW jacket, but I prefer mid-weight leathers (particularly because of my climate). I thought his deerskin might be the answer, but even that is rather heavy. Some have opined that Stuart's lightest offering is not dissimilar to a mid-weight leather, but my experience suggests otherwise. I will be banging down Stuart's door if he ever offers a true mid-weight leather. That said, I am not holding my breath.

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ton312 said:

My gripe with Stu is his payment model. All up front. There is no pressure on him to provide a timely, as expected/ordered product. If he doesn’t... you have no recourse beyond his word, that you will be addressed and satisfied accordingly. To me that is not a risk his wares have shown to be worth taking.
I don’t think he makes many mistakes but he did with mine.
His opinion of his hides aside, his business model sucks and leaves all the risk with the buyer. For me, that’s a bridge too far. Take 1/2, show me what you did, then take the rest. Or offer a full return policy, no questions asked. Particularly on “stock” sizes/ patterns.
Now if you muck up the pattern or spec something outside stock. That’s your problem and not his.

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JMax said:

Off to refill my glass. Thanks.

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Hh121 said:

business must be great, I feel he doesn’t care much about losing his customer.

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Blackadder said:

Yes and no. Saying leather used by H&M, Zara etc is shit is an acceptable exaggeration, saying shiniki is shit is beyond exaggeration. He did not say it is grossly overpriced or overrated, he said it is shit, therefore I highly doubt the usefulness of his opinion and reasons. A lot of us have heard this type of "opinion" from another seller in an old but not forgotten thread and many of us do not want a repeat of that.
I owned a LW J-23 and sold it cause it doesn't fit. It is a nice jacket but even if it does fit, I still prefer my RM Buco and the Few of the same style. I have never heard or seen Shinki leather splitting open or torn from wear. I don't know about the protection as I doubt anyone would test that by say falling off a bike. The simple truth is that it is not shit whether one likes it or not.

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ton312 said:

Yes indeed and it’s interesting to see the surge in appreciation for his stuff. When I bought my first LW his wares had a Luke warm at best reception here but were quite well received on sites like avid rider. I suspect the rider crowd has produced a swell in appreciation for his stuff, which makes sense. That dense HH is great for a bike. Personally I think Vanson gets the ergo better. One final thought. When I was I inquiring about a Ryder in 4oz plus I was told I needed to pay an additional deposit to “secure” the hide. This, inspire of the fact his site advertises the 4oz plus as standard. That sealed the deal for me.

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Hh121 said:

that’s ridiculous , it makes me doubt if he really has his own factory ?? I have a photo of his shop which is very small with only one machinest working on.

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Hh121 said:

that’s ridiculous , it makes me doubt if he really has his own factory ?? I have a photo of his shop which is very small with only one machinest working on.

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ton312 said:

No clue but I couldn’t get over the fact I had to pay more for something that was advertised as stock. The whole email exchange pissed me off. That was it for me and LW. But let’s be honest, take it with a grain of salt...I’m lusting for a jacket most guys around here would and will laugh at. LOL.

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JMax said:

He quickly stated to me that it is overpriced and doesn’t look as good as his HH. A quick blurb totally within the context of our conversation. If I had known this topic would result in such discussion here, I would have probed for details.

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Blackadder said:

Overpriced? Definitely. Veg tanned leather takes longer and therefore costs more than chrome tanned. That goes for all the veg tanned hide like LL's veg tanned cowhide, the "very best" Italian veg tanned hide used by the maker that shall not be named, the Italian veg tanned hide used by Buzz Rickson's etc etc. They are all overpriced because a chrome tanned leather jacket costing less will not be "worse" than a veg tanned jacket as a piece of garment. But why target shiniki? Because of the rave? So some of us have to be the opposition and degrade it for balance sake?
That simple point can be made if say LW offers the shiniki at a USD1000 upcharge like Langlitz does with the HH and LL does with the veg tanned cowfide.

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JMax said:

I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to sway my mind or degrade Shinki. With others he may have, with me it was just along the line of “I don’t like Shinki and you get more for your buck with my leather”. That’s what it felt like at the time. It was such a small part of the overall conversation it really didn’t register with me until this thread. He may have done it to justify the nearly $500 bump in price, not including the Crown zip treatment, between my first order and this last one. Who knows. It’s his opinion, we all got’em.

As to his business, in my experience there has been no difference between Vanson and LWs, custom or OTR. You order, talk through tweaks, measurements, etc. and pay in full. Take the fit process away from TB, and it’s the same same too. All have delivered great jackets in a very timely manner. The only mistake came from Vanson when they forgot to put the two-way zip on my vest. I kept it. Great vest. I am understanding, as long as the comm lines are open and I don’t feel as if the maker is effin with me. If comms shut down and I can’t reach them, or they BS me, then I’ll seek jackets elsewhere. Lots of great options.

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