New old Buco J22 pics

J Leather Investigater · Apr 30, 2020

BloodEagle said:
Hey all,

Some of you may remember a few days ago I was asking for opinion of a 50s Buco which I had spotted for sale at what seemed a decent price. Well, it arrived yesterday, I've been getting to grips with it (literally, it's like armour - the heaviest jacket I've ever come across), and I thought I'd share a few shots if anyone's interested. I really like it, it seems to fit pretty well, and there are no issues that I can tell other than it being a little squeaky. I was a little anxious about it being too short in the body as I'm quite tall, but im happy with the length. Enough talk here's some pics edit - apols for the ginormous size of the images, no one needs to see that big a version of me View attachment 231704
View attachment 231706 View attachment 231703 View attachment 231702 View attachment 231700 View attachment 231705 View attachment 231708 View attachment 231709 View attachment 231710

Nice! Im not an expert by any means, my opinion is it looks original it has the buco tag which isnt very often " reproduced" and the leather at the end of the cuffs looks like a vintage jacket i had, the wear on the leather looks old, it just doesnt look like "wear" a newer repro would produce to me. Great score, no wonder your selling tfh you got the d pocket covered

Carlos840 · Apr 30, 2020

I have just noticed something:

All the seams between the side panels and the back and front panel are french seams, so are the seams on the back of the arms:

Most current repros i have seen have folded seams, so do most originals i have seen before:

A while back a J-24 with similar stitching was for sale on eBay, i posted about it, but back then no one knew anythign about it.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/vintage-buco-j-24-stitching.95017/

So what is the deal, is there a special transitiion J-24 model with french seams on the side?

Peacoat · Apr 30, 2020

Usually jackets squeak at the seams where the thread meets the leather. Some have used talcum powder with success. I prefer to put a light coat of conditioner on the seams as it is quicker and seems to last longer. For this job I prefer Lexol, but any good conditioner will work. If the jacket feels dry, it may need an overall application of a quality conditioner. I love your jacket, BTW.

Blackadder · Apr 30, 2020

Come to think of it. It may even have been a gift from Japan RM to London RM intended as display at the London RM shop and when London shop closes, it goes into the liquidation.

tmitchell59 · Apr 30, 2020

A Beautiful early original Buco in near mint condition! This is the one to have and you got it. Congratulations!

Buying the very best Vintage jacket you can is the way to go. Start on top and stay there.

Your purchase inspires me to post up my "new" old Hercules from the same era. I love the Wool lining!

Blackadder · Apr 30, 2020

Carlos840 said:
I have just noticed something:

All the seams between the side panels and the back and front panel are french seams, so are the seams on the back of the arms:

Most current repros i have seen have folded seams, so do most originals i have seen before:

A while back a J-24 with similar stitching was for sale on eBay, i posted about it, but back then no one knew anythign about it.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/vintage-buco-j-24-stitching.95017/

So what is the deal, is there a special transitiion J-24 model with french seams on the side?

Wow. Good observation. It may even be a test sample or early test batch seeing that the pillon pocket are conmar zippers while the sleeves are talon zippers.

BloodEagle · Apr 30, 2020

Thanks for all of the info youve been good enough to share guys - what a great forum this is. With regard to conditioning it or similar, has anyone got any thoughts on what best to do, it does feel a little dryish in places. Should I give the whole jacket a light go over with some Pecards or leave it - I dont want to do anything detrimental to it?

Carlos840 · Apr 30, 2020

BloodEagle said:
Thanks for all of the info youve been good enough to share guys - what a great forum this is. With regard to conditioning it or similar, has anyone got any thoughts on what best to do, it does feel a little dryish in places. Should I give the whole jacket a light go over with some Pecards ?

Is it stitched using grey thread? It looks grey in the pics.
If you look at the epaulettes for example, is the thread the same collor on the top side and on the underside?

BloodEagle · Apr 30, 2020

Its pretty difficult to say - could be greyish, or could be faded black

Carlos840 · Apr 30, 2020

BloodEagle said:
Its pretty difficult to say - could be greyish, or could be faded black

That's why i'm asking if the colour is the same on top and underside of epaulette.
On most of my vintage jackets, the top stitching on the epaulettes has lost it's colour, but the underside is black as the day it left the caftory.
Sunlight and water is what discolors thread, and water and sunlight rarely makes it there.
Maybe check the stitching of the zipper on the inside of the d pocket too.

BloodEagle · Apr 30, 2020

Ahah - I understand. Yes, looking at it areas like the underside of the epaulette and the underside of the collar are black, the topside thread is definitely grey

Monitor · Apr 30, 2020

Old-ish thread would often fade like that, yeah. That's normal.

Peacoat · Apr 30, 2020

BloodEagle said:
Thanks for all of the info youve been good enough to share guys - what a great forum this is. With regard to conditioning it or similar, has anyone got any thoughts on what best to do, it does feel a little dryish in places. Should I give the whole jacket a light go over with some Pecards or leave it - I dont want to do anything detrimental to it?

A light coating of Pecard could only help it. The hide will absorb what it needs, and you can wipe the remainder, if any, off.

mihai · Apr 30, 2020

Peacoat said:
A light coating of Pecard could only help it. The hide will absorb what it needs, and you can wipe the remainder, if any, off.

Indeed.
In general avoid animal/vegetal fats as they are less stable to oxidation(going rancid). Once oxidized they'll damage the leather fibers. Best is to use mineral fats (vaseline,...) which are considerably more chemically stable. Pecard is such mineral fat.
I use Pecard leather lotion(https://pecard.com/shop/classic/leather-care-lotion/). Apply in several layers, after each is being absorbed. Care that sometimes lotion is being absorbed, but leather gets over saturated and when it flexes you'll see white creases.
Also avoid Pecard antique leather care. Will leave a nasty sticky residue on the leather.

navetsea · May 1, 2020

fit's looks really cool, congrats!!

tmitchell59 · May 1, 2020

This is an interesting jacket.

Carlos840 said:
I have just noticed something:

All the seams between the side panels and the back and front panel are french seams, so are the seams on the back of the arms:

Most current repros i have seen have folded seams, so do most originals i have seen before:

A while back a J-24 with similar stitching was for sale on eBay, i posted about it, but back then no one knew anythign about it.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/vintage-buco-j-24-stitching.95017/

So what is the deal, is there a special transitiion J-24 model with french seams on the side?

r

I read your referenced thread. May well be as @Blackadder said, an early rendering. Save cost by dropping the French seems. I've noticed in the early Hercules the same early jackets had a half belt and others did not. Probably a cost savings move. The earliest are the Wool lined. I notice this is 100% Wool. I'm not sure they all said that? I'm thinking they were a mix, which would be another cost savings. That is speculation on the wool mix.

Did Buco have an earlier label?

The French seeming is a more intensive technique. This is the same area on my "Monarch" wool lined. Much of it done in French seams.

AeroFan_07 · May 1, 2020

Looks amazing to me - great find there. The lining is immaculant. Hope you can take some nice outdoor fit photos with it to really show it in it's glory soon!
Does it have any leather smell left to it?

I have found in the instance of a few truly like new vintage jackets that they smelled like mothballs, often used to avoid damage and were often kept in a pastic suit bag. Didn't really hurt anything, but needed some ariing out.

Kuro · May 1, 2020

First of all, whatever the provenance is, this jacket is pretty awesome. Congrats!

That being said, figuring out the provenance would be worth it. The mix of zippers, seams and overall condition lend to an interesting story that wants to be found!

Superfluous · May 1, 2020

First and foremost, the jacket looks great!

The first thing that jumped out at me was the french seams. My Buco does not have french seams and I have never seen french seams on a Buco. I am not saying this is not a genuine Buco -- I have no idea.

Maybe you can send the photos to Dave Himel. He would probably know if it is genuine.

$1900 is a lot of money for a jacket with lingering questions. I think Markkt permits returns. If you cannot validate its authenticity, you have the option of returning it. To be clear, I am not suggesting that you return it. I am merely pointing out the option given the questions being posed about the jacket's authenticity.

If you decide to keep it, I wish you many years of wonderful experiences in it!

BloodEagle · May 1, 2020

At this point I am satisfied that it is genuine, honestly being the one who has it to hand to feel and see close up there has never been any doubt from my perspective anyway, so I am going to keep it. Once again thanks for your thoughts

New old Buco J22 pics

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