how far does a person need to travel to be considered a "Tourist" ?

Edward said:

Funny things, words.

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Funny, indeed. With only a little over 300 miles from one end of this state to the other the dialect and accent changes along the way can be significant.

"Redneck" is a word we never heard or used up here until the "redneck" craze of the late seventies -- "Smokey and the Bandit," "Dukes of Hazzard," and all such yee-haw nonsense as that. Nobody up here ever identified with "rednecks" or "redneck culture" until they learned about it from movies and TV, and then suddenly there it was, to the point where all the pseudo-Southern accoutrements pushed out our own native working-class culture. It bothered me a lot while it was happening, and it still bothers me today.

I don't consider the word offensive so much as I consider it, as applied to New England people, ridiculous and affected, especially since it's sold to people like a commodity. Which makes these so-called "rednecks" as authentic as all the hipsters and Hot Topic scenesters they position themselves in opposition to.

I never thought American English sounded “twangy”, but that is the common adjective i hear describing it over here. I suppose it is just like Germans who don’t understand it when people say their language sounds “guttural”. Nor have I ever understood the supposed charm and magic Commonly associated with French. I think many of these stereotypes say more about the wishful thinking of the people using them than about the language being described.

Tiki Tom said:

I never thought American English sounded “twangy”, but that is the common adjective i hear describing it over here. I suppose it is just like Germans who don’t understand it when people say their language sounds “guttural”. Nor have I ever understood the supposed charm and magic Commonly associated with French. I think many of these stereotypes say more about the wishful thinking of the people using them than about the language being described.

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I cannot recall the movie but in it a guy joked that his wife (a southern belle) had the ability to turn a one syllable word into a five syllable word and it took her a long time to complete a sentence filled with one syllable words.

There are a lot regional sounds in American English -- I'd associate "twangy" with an Oklahoma accent, the sort of sound that became a stereotypical "Western" accent as heard in cheap cowboy movies of the thirties and forties. Northeastern accents tend to be harsh and nasal, especially to European ears, but are in no way "twangy."

Regarding 'redneck': In Affrikaans, 'rooinek' literally means 'redneck'. However there it is used as derogatory term for white English-speaking South Africans. Presumably because the English came after the Dutch and hadn't learned to wear a hat.

Bamaboots said:

Al, never one never one to generalize are you? Southern” and “redneck” don’t always go hand in hand, though I generally fit that description.

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In that post I used the term "redneck" so it would conjure the stereotypical, derogatory, humorous connotations that come to most minds when they read or hear the word because my own "southern" accent sounds to my ear very much like the generic "southern" accent used by actors cast to play a character from the American south who can't replicate an authentic accent from a specific region. I am aware there is a difference between being "southern" and being "redneck", and I apologize most sincerely if I've offended any Lounge members.

Zombie_61 said:

I am aware there is a difference between being "southern" and being "redneck", and I apologize most sincerely if I've offended any Lounge members.

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Certainly didn’t offend me. After all, Hollywood’s been getting it wrong for years. All in fun.

My slow-to-most-people "Yes Ma'am" when I'm beyond my state borders is a good give-away to most people as to where I'm from. I do some work with an international committee and I got a huge round of laughter and applause the first time I said that to the female chairperson. I say it out of respect, it's who I am. No apologies. After 60 years, my Texas drawl isn't likely to change.

We know a person is a tourist here when they actually say Yee Haw. We don't say Yee Haw. It is an expressive, a string of sounds or letters to express an emotion or to draw attention like when calling or herding livestock. We know that when someone says the actual letter phrase YEE HAW, they are usually also twirling an imaginary rope and being either a smarta** or a dumba**. There is also usually alcohol involved!

Zombie_61 said:

I don't know why, because no one in my family has ever lived in the American "south", but put me with anyone who has a "southern" (American) accent and suddenly I'm as redneck as they come, y'all. It isn't intentional or even voluntary, I just begin speaking with that accent and usually don't even realize I'm doing it until someone brings it to my attention. And for whatever reason I do the same thing when I'm really tired--this "southern" drawl just sort of invades my normal speech patterns. I have no idea why.

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belfastboy said:

I cannot recall the movie but in it a guy joked that his wife (a southern belle) had the ability to turn a one syllable word into a five syllable word and it took her a long time to complete a sentence filled with one syllable words.

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Bamaboots said:

Funny, indeed. With only a little over 300 miles from one end of this state to the other the dialect and accent changes along the way can be significant.

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I can well imagine; where I grew up in Northern Irelasnd, the accent and often dialect can change markedly within a few miles. Though I've lost the ear for it now (twenty years living abroad does that), I still; know folks who can almost tell you your address over there by accent - I can still distinguish West and East Belfast, which is often, erm, significant.

LizzieMaine said:

"Redneck" is a word we never heard or used up here until the "redneck" craze of the late seventies -- "Smokey and the Bandit," "Dukes of Hazzard," and all such yee-haw nonsense as that. Nobody up here ever identified with "rednecks" or "redneck culture" until they learned about it from movies and TV, and then suddenly there it was, to the point where all the pseudo-Southern accoutrements pushed out our own native working-class culture. It bothered me a lot while it was happening, and it still bothers me today.

I don't consider the word offensive so much as I consider it, as applied to New England people, ridiculous and affected, especially since it's sold to people like a commodity. Which makes these so-called "rednecks" as authentic as all the hipsters and Hot Topic scenesters they position themselves in opposition to.

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We increasingly see the same Hollywood effect even here in the UK. There' nothing odder than a white, midle class kid from Surrey adopting a quasi patois accent and whining, in all sincerity, about "da feds".

LizzieMaine said:

There are a lot regional sounds in American English -- I'd associate "twangy" with an Oklahoma accent, the sort of sound that became a stereotypical "Western" accent as heard in cheap cowboy movies of the thirties and forties. Northeastern accents tend to be harsh and nasal, especially to European ears, but are in no way "twangy."

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I suspect a lot of perceived accents are an artificial Hollywood creation, often borne out of a ham actor delivering a bad impression (Paradigm, see Cruise, Tom, Far and Away). One that always grates on me is the myth that all pirates have an English, West-Country accent (fortunately post-Depp this isnot as strong as it once was) - simply because the first actor to play Long John Silver on screen chose to go with that.

belfastboy said:

As a Canadian with what is considered a 'neutral' accent....hence the popularity for a while of Canadians as news anchors.(Peter Jennings et al) I tend when I travel and am in a place for an extended period to pick up the accent and bring it home. It is especially true when I travel in the southern US or Ireland and Scotland....land of the broad accents. I come home with the drawl, the lilt, the slang and it sticks for a few weeks after I arrive home.

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That too happens to me, though not as easily as some. I know when I spent a Summer working a loading dock in Chicago, I developed a sort of light Hispanic accent subconsciously despite being a white kid from the edge of rural Illinois and the southwest suburbs.

Edward said:

Psychology, I guess. Maybe you're usunig the same part of the brain that is affected by what they call "foreign accent syndrome". I've seen documented medical cases where someone has had a knock on the head and thereafter gone from their own accent to speaking with a German or even Chinese accent. The human brain is a fascinating and wodnerful thing we still don't understand the half of!

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It's not just psychology, it's an adaptive evolutionary trait commonly found among primates. In order to better adapt to our environment, humans (and even some monkeys have been known to adopt dialects when introduced into a different group) will adapt their vocalization to whichever area they're in so that they may better fit in with that group.

LizzieMaine said:

"Redneck" is a word we never heard or used up here until the "redneck" craze of the late seventies -- "Smokey and the Bandit," "Dukes of Hazzard," and all such yee-haw nonsense as that. Nobody up here ever identified with "rednecks" or "redneck culture" until they learned about it from movies and TV, and then suddenly there it was, to the point where all the pseudo-Southern accoutrements pushed out our own native working-class culture. It bothered me a lot while it was happening, and it still bothers me today.

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That's something that happens here in Illinois, too. Rural working class people seem to identify with Deep South culture far more than they do any kind of Illinoian culture, whatever that may be (booing Green Bay on Sundays?). I have three documented ancestors who fought for the Union Army for Illinois, yet there's two houses on my block that proudly display Confederate battle flags in their garages.

The kids have a word for people who obsessively identify with a culture with which they have no personal connection whatever -- "weeaboo," which originally meant someone who was so obsessed with anime that they identified beyond all reason with a stereotyped anime fan's idea of what Japanese culture was supposed to be. I suggest a similar term for a Northern Southerner might be "y'allaboo."

LizzieMaine said:

The kids have a word for people who obsessively identify with a culture with which they have no personal connection whatever -- "weeaboo," which originally meant someone who was so obsessed with anime that they identified beyond all reason with a stereotyped anime fan's idea of what Japanese culture was supposed to be. I suggest a similar term for a Northern Southerner might be "y'allaboo."

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Subculture, its looks and its portability is a fascination of mine. Travelling in the Navajo nation's small towns and seeing the disaffected teens hanging about that had adopted big city America gang looks, down to the coloured 'doo rags' and rap music struck me as sad. Then in Scotland seeing the skate board kids affecting the identical look that one sees at every skate park in America struck me as just funny. I think youth rebellion is a positive thing but sad that in their rebellion they have to look identical and so easily identifiable as a member of such rebellion.

Bushman said:

It's not just psychology, it's an adaptive evolutionary trait commonly found among primates. In order to better adapt to our environment, humans (and even some monkeys have been known to adopt dialects when introduced into a different group) will adapt their vocalization to whichever area they're in so that they may better fit in with that group.

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That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that research. THe logic does make sense, though.

That's something that happens here in Illinois, too. Rural working class people seem to identify with Deep South culture far more than they do any kind of Illinoian culture, whatever that may be (booing Green Bay on Sundays?). I have three documented ancestors who fought for the Union Army for Illinois, yet there's two houses on my block that proudly display Confederate battle flags in their garages.

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Without getting too deep into the politics of it, I have a feel that much of the identification with the Confederate battle flag nowadays, especially outside the Southern states, is really less about what it is perceived to stand for, and more about symbolising a rejection of everything for which those who might be offended by it stand. Similar to voting for something or someone not because it's what you want or support, but simply because it's the opposite of what that public figure you really hate wants, and it is a symbolic kick in the teeth for them. I see a lot of this kind of thinking in the UK these days, whether politics, tribes, whatever. Back in the seventies, a lot of the first wave London punks wore swastikas (Jordan famously an entire Sturmabteilung uniform) NOT because they were Nazis (punk rock stood for the very opposite of Nazi ideology), but purely because of the extteme potential it had to cause offence to the perceived establishment of the day. I suspect this aspect of human psychology has been ever with us.

belfastboy said:

Subculture, its looks and its portability is a fascination of mine. Travelling in the Navajo nation's small towns and seeing the disaffected teens hanging about that had adopted big city America gang looks, down to the coloured 'doo rags' and rap music struck me as sad. Then in Scotland seeing the skate board kids affecting the identical look that one sees at every skate park in America struck me as just funny. I think youth rebellion is a positive thing but sad that in their rebellion they have to look identical and so easily identifiable as a member of such rebellion.

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It would be interesting to trace the evolution of subcultures since the arrival of the web. Back in theearly 90s, Douglas Coupland was already writing in Shampoo Planet and Generation X about how globalisation of capitalism had made everywhere "the same" with the same chains, brands and so on. The web has universalised the subculture experience. Whereas the New York punk scene of the 1970s, centred on CBGBs and the London scene were very different indeed (the London scene was even markedly different from the scene in Manchester from the scene in Belfast or Derry....Dublin barely had a punk scene, old school rock a la Thin Lizzy was much stronger there... ), now it's much more likely that kids will find their tribe, their scene online. It's become easier, largely because of the nature of the internet making it much more viable to service a niche market big enough to be profitable when geography matters so much less, to find a one-stop shop that will cater to "your" look, and very quickly you start to get more uniformity. London punks, New York punks, West Coast start to look the same. On the one hand I appreciate the ease and convenience of this era, on the other, I miss some of the creativity. But it's easy to miss the stimulation of tiems when it was much harder and forget that maybe I just wouldn't be able to find the clothes I want to wear but for this globalisation. I think it's been foru or five years nowsimce I last bought some trousers in a shop; to get them not only the cut I want aesthetically, but to even have a high enough waist to be remotely comfortable, needs must I go online.

I grew up seeing rebel flags on the trucks of people who had never been south of the Mason-Dixon line. I always took it to mean "look at me! I'm really rebellious in my soul; even as I go to my deadend 9-to-5 job and then pick up the kids from daycare." Pretty much the same with the middle class suburban kids who were posing as punk or goth. (I'm probably dating myself horribly.)

The popular local variation of the Confederate flag features a hand flipping the finger superimposed over the bars. A large and conspicuously white finger.

You'll sometimes see this flag streaming from the bed of a jacked-up pickup truck with rubber testicles dangling from the trailer hitch. Suggesting, perhaps, that the whole persona is a matter of extreme overcompensation for certain inadequacies.

LizzieMaine said:

You'll sometimes see this flag streaming from the bed of a jacked-up pickup truck with rubber testicles dangling from the trailer hitch.

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Ha ha. What will they think of next? What a freak show. I suspect that your analysis is spot on.

LizzieMaine said:

The popular local variation of the Confederate flag features a hand flipping the finger superimposed over the bars. A large and conspicuously white finger.

You'll sometimes see this flag streaming from the bed of a jacked-up pickup truck with rubber testicles dangling from the trailer hitch. Suggesting, perhaps, that the whole persona is a matter of extreme overcompensation for certain inadequacies.

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Whenever I see someone post that flag on FB I usually reply with something like this (and I have several that are similar):

ChiTownScion said:

Whenever I see someone post that flag on FB I usually reply with something like this (and I have several that are similar):
View attachment 236580

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Oh, please. I've worked with people who have relatives living in "the south" who are still waiting for The South to "Rise Again!!!"

Of course, Civil War re-enacting is a real thing. And we, at the Fedora Lounge should understand the desire to reconnect with the past. But, then again, there is a difference between wanting to recapture some supposedly “romantic” aura of a historical moment (southern belles, dashing confederate officers on horseback) and wanting to legitimize a cause that was lost from the start and should not draw a breath in today’s world. Dixie May have been romantic in a certain anti-establishment sense in its day. Slavery was not. (Moderators: feel free to delete if I have crossed the “no politics” line, but I would hope that this is not an issue.)