What's your definition of a "vintage" leather jacket?

Will Zach · Sep 11, 2020

There was a pair of vintage brass sconce lights on 1st Dibs I liked. $2500. Had makers stamp and all. Mid-century vintage, they say. Really nice, sold by a high-end antique shop.

And so I googled. Sure enough, I found an identical pair on eBay for $150.

I bought them for $125, and I bet the antique shop bought theirs for around $100, too.

Ultimately, they will get their $2500 for them. No reason to overpay just because they say "vintage".

navetsea · Sep 11, 2020

there is even worn out faded decaying vintage t-shirt, why do people want to buy someone else used decaying tshirt, its not even looking good. if I want vintage looking tshirt I buy random graphic shirt throw it in bleach, rinse it with coffee, boom vintage tshirt.

Dav · Sep 11, 2020

In my mind vintage is before I was born, at least when applied to jackets. I just don't think of anything from the 70s or 80s as being that old, I suppose it's a self denial thing really, I'm not old!

navetsea · Sep 11, 2020

I jumped when a young washing machine repairman came and called my 1997 twinstroke bike I bought brand new when I graduated highschool as "antique" , too heavy of a word for a small old 150cc suzuki RG

Monitor · Sep 11, 2020

I don't think it's as simple as labeling everything vintage "old" and possibly in a bad condition. The term has its use, even though it often does gets abused. Sure, people sometimes apply the term to any old, crusty jacket that technically isn't even a vintage piece but for instance, for companies that have been around for decades and are still surviving and making jackets, like Langlitz, it is in my opinion perfectly acceptable to use the word for one of their truly old jackets. There is such a thing as a vintage Langlitz - Just make sure to point out all the flaws, if there are some.

On the other hand, some buyers can't seem to comprehend that a 50 years old, used jacket simply cannot also be a brand new jacket and will bawl about stuff that I personally would never point out as a flaw myself. And that's okay. Not many people can stand wearing used clothes, just that I'd wish they would come to terms with this realization with themselves and stop pretending they're into vintage clothing.

Rabbit · Sep 11, 2020

There has been a notable change in the vintage market recently. Some of the original 80s and 90s clothing has become fashionable, with certain brands fetching high prices.
If you think of how the vintage trade works, with bales of clothing being selected into categories and transferred, then again selected and transferred by the next level dealer and so on, it makes sense to recognise anything that came from a decade 20-30 years in the past as vintage, like cars. The term vintage basically just refers to 'a year in the past'. A wine from 2012 is a 2012 vintage.
Although those who are interested in, say, 30s or 10s vintage only, may not accept 80s or 90s as proper vintage, I think it's legit to use the term for 80s and 90s clothing by now.

Seb Lucas · Sep 11, 2020

The vintage market is always changing. I remember buying immaculate 1950's felt hats in the early 1980's and people laughing at the idea of someone considering a 1950's hat worth paying $3 for.

dannyk · Sep 11, 2020

My dad is into classic cars, and I learned a bit. In the car world 25 years or older is classic for collectors. For insurance purposes it is actually just 20 years old. 25-50 is classic. Anything over 50 is antique. The thing we always have to keep in mind is that its completely subjective to the eras/decades were born in really. I was born in the 80s and grew up with that stuff. So to me really to be vintage it has to be 80s or before. To my father classic/vintage would really have to be anything before the 70s. Its radio stations that play classic rock, when does that change? Ive on occasion heard Nirvana or Green Day on those stations. To me its music that was popular when I was a kid/teen. Its not classic. But for kids today it could be, because its over 20 years old. So for me no idea what vintage really is or what it means. In my subjective opinion its 80s or before because of my age. Its also kind of one those things where you know it when you see it. Maybe there is no definition, its just there and you know it.

ton312 · Sep 11, 2020

To me vintage means anything the original manufacturer no longer produces. Has less to do with a specific time frame, though that is precisely how the term has been used in a marketing sense of the word. As far as leather jackets are concerned, the notion that anything vintage is to be avoided or is trash is absolutely ludicrous and quite absurd. The best jackets I've ever owned have been vintage and they make my repro's look like silly impostors...It's a harder nut to crack. Sizing is always an issue. Condition less so...leather jackets are meant to be a sustainable item. They can be repaired, relined etc and given new life. If you can't see the value in that or appreciate design aesthetic from the past, I can't see how you could possibly enjoy a leather jacket at all...and I suggest you shop here: https://www.thenorthface.com/

handymike · Sep 11, 2020

Classic rock is 70s and before in my book.
I guess, after reading all of the posts and further thought, 70s and before work for vintage leather jackets too. While technically “vintage”, a Members Only jacket doesn’t quite qualify for me. An East/West does very much though.

Arnold · Sep 11, 2020

Guppy said:
The term "used wine" just makes me think of urine, lol, not appealing at all.

Vintage clothing need not be used, or pre-owned, though it often is. These words have nuanced differences: pre-owned clothing could be taken to mean something that was purchased but never worn. Used means, well, used, so definitely has been worn, although that could mean anything from "worn once, like new condition" to "worn out and thrashed."

You bring up a good point. For unused old items, "new old stock"/ NOS would be the best term. That's exactly the problem with the way "vintage" is used now: it masks whether an item is used or not, which however used to be one of the main factors in determining value in the pre-internet decades. Nowadays it's "vintage" first, and then, if it's obviously used, it's advertised as "patina" or "already broken in so you don't have to do that anymore". Just let the buyers decide for themselves if they prefer new or broken-in jackets.

I do buy most of my stuff second hand. I enjoy learning about past decades and their products and different standards, and I like the idea of saving usable stuff from being thrown away, and of course it can save money. And I love some of my used jackets regardless of whether they show their history with the previous owner(s) or not. But I never bought something because it said "vintage" instead of "new old stock from the 80s"/ "used 1950s"/ whatever.

Seb Lucas · Sep 12, 2020

Arnold said:
You bring up a good point. For unused old items, "new old stock"/ NOS would be the best term. That's exactly the problem with the way "vintage" is used now: it masks whether an item is used or not, which however used to be one of the main factors in determining value in the pre-internet decades. Nowadays it's "vintage" first, and then, if it's obviously used, it's advertised as "patina" or "already broken in so you don't have to do that anymore". Just let the buyers decide for themselves if they prefer new or broken-in jackets.

I do buy most of my stuff second hand. I enjoy learning about past decades and their products and different standards, and I like the idea of saving usable stuff from being thrown away, and of course it can save money. And I love some of my used jackets regardless of whether they show their history with the previous owner(s) or not. But I never bought something because it said "vintage" instead of "new old stock from the 80s"/ "used 1950s"/ whatever.

I don't think anyone is arguing that 'vintage' always describes used stuff, but mostly it does. Genuine NOS items are hard to find. Sellers generally describe items as such as it means charging a premium. I don't think there is any problem with the way the word vintage is used. It just refers to old stuff. It's not very complex. The buyer has to decide whether the item in question is old enough or not old enough, whether it is too worn, or not worn and minty. People will misuse the word patina when they mean scratched or damaged. But the buyer generally knows what they want and can easily negotiate this world.

Arnold · Sep 12, 2020

Seb Lucas said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that 'vintage' always describes used stuff, but mostly it does. Genuine NOS items are hard to find. Sellers generally describe items as such as it means charging a premium. I don't think there is any problem with the way the word vintage is used. It just refers to old stuff. It's not very complex. The buyer has to decide whether the item in question is old enough or not old enough, whether it is too worn, or not worn and minty. People will misuse the word patina when they mean scratched or damaged. But the buyer generally knows what they want and can easily negotiate this world.

I'm more of a linguistic stickler, or what is called "grammar n*zi" in these times. Vintage used to denote a specific, usually specified, time frame, and depending on that, sometimes a certain level of quality. The way it's used now, with "used (thus requiring some specification of its condition)" being the standard expectation, is almost turning the former meaning upside down.

I know that's just the way language goes and I don't complain about it unless someone brings it up, as with this thread. I just don't want the change to go unnoticed, the new meaning taken for granted, because it tells something about our societies today. Again: "Don't call it 'used' if it's vintage" - cringe slogan of the year, at least for non-native English speakers (because, as native English speakers frequently forget, the rest of the world uses your buzzwords as loanwords, in which case they often take on additional connotations regionally, which can lead to more misunderstandings than when it's two native English speakers who conduct the deal).

Seb Lucas · Sep 12, 2020

Arnold said:
I'm more of a linguistic stickler, or what is called "grammar n*zi" in these times. Vintage used to denote a specific, usually specified, time frame, and depending on that, sometimes a certain level of quality. The way it's used now, with "used (thus requiring some specification of its condition)" being the standard expectation, is almost turning the former meaning upside down.

I know that's just the way language goes and I don't complain about it unless someone brings it up, as with this thread. I just don't want the change to go unnoticed, the new meaning taken for granted, because it tells something about our societies today. Again: "Don't call it 'used' if it's vintage" - cringe slogan of the year, at least for non-native English speakers (because, as native English speakers frequently forget, the rest of the world uses your buzzwords as loanwords, in which case they often take on additional connotations regionally, which can lead to more misunderstandings than when it's two native English speakers who conduct the deal).

Nah.

There is no itinerant meaning to words, there is only usage, which is why words change radically over time - it's how language functions. When it comes to 'vintage' that word has never been used with precision when referring to clothing. But if vintage means anything at all, a 1980's coat would seem a fine fit. Words change - 'awful' used to mean extremely good; 'flirt' used to mean to sneer at; 'nice' used to mean stupid, etc, etc. To get bogged down in how a word 'should' be used is to forever live in unrealistic disappointment.

Arnold · Sep 12, 2020

Seb Lucas said:
Nah. There is no itinerant meaning to words, there is only usage, which is why words change radically over time - it's how language functions. When it comes to 'vintage' that word has never been used with precision when referring to clothing. But if vintage means anything at all, a 1980's coat would seem a fine fit. Words change - 'awful' used to mean extremely good; 'flirt' used to mean to sneer at; 'nice' used to mean stupid, etc, etc. To get bogged down in how a word 'should' be used is to forever live in unrealistic disappointment.

You didn't read the second paragraph.

Logician · Sep 12, 2020

I agree with many of the comments made here, vintage as a clothing category is widely misunderstood as representing simply the old. This is why younger generations sometimes regard any clothing from as recently as twenty or ten years ago as ‘vintage’, all the more so since, unfortunately, ‘vintage’ has become a fashion in its own right. Not so for the true connoisseur: it is rare that a piece of clothing is not both at least 50-60 years old and a benchmark example of its kind.
Many are hard to find, now that history has taken its toll and old clothes have been lost, destroyed, fashionably customized or recycled.
Without becoming a victim of nostalgia, there is, of course, a class and a quality to menswear of the 1960s and earlier that is hard to find today. In part that is because the economics of mass manufacturing do not allow for investment in considered design or acceptable pricing. In part it is because the attire of some professions and activities have come to be dominated by overtly technical clothing – no doubt superior in function if not in aesthetics. And in some small part it is IMO because of a lack of pride in appearance: cheap, everyday casualwear seems enough for most men today.

Will Zach · Sep 12, 2020

I like jackets, furniture and jazz from the decade I was born in - 1950s. I guess that makes me vintage, too. No store clerk will be condescendingly telling ME what vintage is... LOL

Seb Lucas · Sep 12, 2020

Arnold said:
You didn't read the second paragraph.

I sure did.

jonesy86 · Sep 13, 2020

5. Informal
a. A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics.
b. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage.
c. Length of existence; age.
adj.
1. Of or relating to a vintage.
2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
3. Old or outmoded.
4.
a. Of the best: played songs that were vintage Cole Porter.
b. Of the most distinctive: "Fatalism has coexisted with vintage American overconfidence" (Thomas Oliphant).
[Middle English, from Anglo-Norman, alteration (influenced by viniter, vintner) of Old French vendange, from Latin vīndēmia : vīnum, grapes + dēmere, to take off (dē, de- + emere, to obtain; see em- in the Appendix of Indo-European roots).]

Benny Holiday · Sep 14, 2020

I can't remember when I first saw the term 'vintage' applied to clothing. Certainly back in the 1980s when I was teenager scouring op shops (thrift stores in the US) for 1950s threads, they were called "second hand clothes" in Sydney. Maybe it was Ebay where I first saw vintage as a term applied to clothing. In my mind vintage is 1960s and earlier.

What's your definition of a "vintage" leather jacket?

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