Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

belfastboy · Sep 26, 2020

jlee562 said:
You could probably jury rig a flat flange if the a completely flat brim is what you want. But the inside hole of the flange is convex to allow for the trimmings, and there is a bottom indentation on the outside to secure a hatter's cord.

I would say you need a foot tolliker more than a runner down. It's nice that the runner is notched for a hatter's cord, but could you use literally anything to push the cord down to the brim break? Yes.

Yes, the pusher downer is the easiest of the tools to improvise. I build my own set, tollicker, pusher and puller downer but ended up buying a pusher and puller from Human shoes as they were so reasonably priced. Kept my tollicker for old times sake.....it is crude and funky but it is mine and it works.
For my flat brims I flange them the reverse. The plywood sitting on my bench, hole cut to match block, with the felt on the block ...the block is inserted into the hole so there is about 3/8" available at the base of the block. The felt/block sits in the hole, with the brim flat on the plywood. I then iron the hell out of it over two days. So even if I am re blocking an existing hat, the trimmings are not inserted into the flange. The plywood is not really a flange but don't know what else to call it.

jlee562 · Sep 26, 2020

Also, Randal Alan does offer individual band blocks for $25. He calls them "brim plates" for some reason, but you can order them individually from the 52 block listing.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/748617...e_active_16&frs=1&bes=1&variation0=1448243516

Gobi · Sep 27, 2020

jlee562 said:
Also, Randal Alan does offer individual band blocks for $25. He calls them "brim plates" for some reason, but you can order them individually from the 52 block listing.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/748617...e_active_16&frs=1&bes=1&variation0=1448243516

Nice! The price is certainly right but I think I need a wooden one.
I was thinking about getting the wood band block, sanding it on the sides toward the front to a slightly egg oval to better fit my head, then tracing that on the ply wood and cutting it on the outside of the line to accommodate the felt width. I was planning on using the band block inserted into the hat while the hat is upside down in the hole, then ironing the brim flat.

The purpose of the flange stand is to give room underneath for the crown, correct? So couldn't I just make legs for the plywood?

deadlyhandsome · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
I was thinking about getting the wood band block, sanding it on the sides toward the front to a slightly egg oval to better fit my head, then tracing that on the ply wood and cutting it on the outside of the line to accommodate the felt width.

Couldn’t you just order a long oval band block?

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

crhIndyfan said:
Re. Trimming the brim, sanding around the edge.
Hi guys, this may sound a little finickity, but would anybody be able to offer me some advice about sanding the brim edge after cutting the brim to size.
I have used a knife and bonsai scissors, and I am interested in knowing the optimum grit (multiple grits, like when sanding the body??) for smoothing out the edge of the hat after trimming the brim to size.

I have not had great success smoothing out the edge if what you mean is that you didn't get a clean cut with the rounding jack or scissors. In my experience getting a good clean accurate cut first go is critical...if not it is a bit ike chasing your tail. If you mean to take the square edge off like Art does in his video then I use a very fine grit like 800, 600 max. If I messed up the rounding jack cut then I experiment with coarser grits as I likely have to remove some felt so use coarser and finish with fine.

jlee562 · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
Nice! The price is certainly right but I think I need a wooden one.
I was thinking about getting the wood band block, sanding it on the sides toward the front to a slightly egg oval to better fit my head, then tracing that on the ply wood and cutting it on the outside of the line to accommodate the felt width. I was planning on using the band block inserted into the hat while the hat is upside down in the hole, then ironing the brim flat.

The purpose of the flange stand is to give room underneath for the crown, correct? So couldn't I just make legs for the plywood?

Affirmative on the stand.

I cheated and used my custom band block for the final sizing and trim, and when I made the first real cut with the brim jack, I realized why this was not the greatest plan. The "foot" of the rounding jack is going to cut according to the band block, because that's what it's pressing up against ultimately.

Gobi · Sep 27, 2020

deadlyhandsome said:
Couldn’t you just order a long oval band block?

Yes but I am a long egg oval so I'm wanting to shape the hat at least somewhat to the egg shape. It naturally forms that shape over time or with steam and shaping but you cant do anything about the resulting brim distortion. If I shape the hat with a slightly egg oval band block while forming the brim break, that shape will be somewhat in the hat already therefore there will be minimal brim distortion once it conforms to my head.
For example, I've never been able to wear a truly flat brim hat. Once it forms to my head, the brim forms somewhat of a bell shape in the front and dips downward. I would like to lessen that.
It wouldn't be a truley custom band block, just a shape that is closer to my natural head shape than a typical long oval.

jlee562 said:
Affirmative on the stand.

I cheated and used my custom band block for the final sizing and trim, and when I made the first real cut with the brim jack, I realized why this was not the greatest plan. The "foot" of the rounding jack is going to cut according to the band block, because that's what it's pressing up against ultimately.

That's a good lesson learned! For me that would make an egg shaped brim. Hmm, I'm trying to figure out a way around that.

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
Yes but I am a long egg oval so I'm wanting to shape the hat at least somewhat to the egg shape. It naturally forms that shape over time or with steam and shaping but you cant do anything about the resulting brim distortion. If I shape the hat with a slightly egg oval band block while forming the brim break, that shape will be somewhat in the hat already therefore there will be minimal brim distortion once it conforms to my head.
For example, I've never been able to wear a truly flat brim hat. Once it forms to my head, the brim forms somewhat of a bell shape in the front and dips downward. I would like to lessen that.
It wouldn't be a truley custom band block, just a shape that is closer to my natural head shape than a typical long oval.

That's a good lesson learned! For me that would make an egg shaped brim. Hmm, I'm trying to figure out a way around that.

It is less than perfect but better than nothing.......I discovered my ovoid head shape when I used two pipe cleaners to make an impression of my weirdly shaped head. Join two thicker pipe cleaner together, wrap around the head and then join together at the forehead. If you wriggle it off gently you will have the pipe clearners formed into the shape of your head. With a gentle hand you can use the formed cleaners to trace on the wood for the band block to match your shape.

deadlyhandsome · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
Yes but I am a long egg oval so I'm wanting to shape the hat at least somewhat to the egg shape. It naturally forms that shape over time or with steam and shaping but you cant do anything about the resulting brim distortion. If I shape the hat with a slightly egg oval band block while forming the brim break, that shape will be somewhat in the hat already therefore there will be minimal brim distortion once it conforms to my head.
For example, I've never been able to wear a truly flat brim hat. Once it forms to my head, the brim forms somewhat of a bell shape in the front and dips downward. I would like to lessen that.
It wouldn't be a truley custom band block, just a shape that is closer to my natural head shape than a typical long oval.

That's a good lesson learned! For me that would make an egg shaped brim. Hmm, I'm trying to figure out a way around that.

See if you can find a hatter who uses a conformer/conformateur and have them make a band block that exactly matches your head‘s size and shape. It’s a cool thing to have and the resulting fit is perfect.

deadlyhandsome · Sep 27, 2020

belfastboy said:
It is less than perfect but better than nothing.......I discovered my ovoid head shape when I used two pipe cleaners to make an impression of my weirdly shaped head. Join two thicker pipe cleaner together, wrap around the head and then join together at the forehead. If you wriggle it off gently you will have the pipe clearners formed into the shape of your head. With a gentle hand you can use the formed cleaners to trace on the wood for the band block to match your shape.

Remember when Max took an actual casting of his head! That was some hilarious stuff.

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

deadlyhandsome said:
See if you can find a hatter who uses a conformer/conformateur and have them make a band block that exactly matches your head‘s size and shape. It’s a cool thing to have and the resulting fit is perfect.

Yes, I ordered one from Art with my first order with him. He neglected to fill that part and I got lazy and didn't push the issue. I regret it now.

Gobi · Sep 27, 2020

belfastboy said:
It is less than perfect but better than nothing.......I discovered my ovoid head shape when I used two pipe cleaners to make an impression of my weirdly shaped head. Join two thicker pipe cleaner together, wrap around the head and then join together at the forehead. If you wriggle it off gently you will have the pipe clearners formed into the shape of your head. With a gentle hand you can use the formed cleaners to trace on the wood for the band block to match your shape.

Great idea! I've contemplated sticking my head in a big plaster mold. Haha. I'm not necessarily looking to make a perfect band block shaped exactly to my head. I just want somewhat of that egg shape in it. My head is pretty much exactly the shape of an egg.

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
Great idea! I've contemplated sticking my head in a big plaster mold. Haha. I'm not necessarily looking to make a perfect band block shaped exactly to my head. I just want somewhat of that egg shape in it. My head is pretty much exactly the shape of an egg.

Mine too....I was shocked when I first used a conformateur and discovered how weird my head must look from a bird's eye view.

deadlyhandsome · Sep 27, 2020

Found Max’s fail proof system for the perfect band block!

I love ya, Max @drmaxtejeda
Miss seeing you around these parts.

Gobi · Sep 27, 2020

belfastboy said:
The downside is you need the block to insert a bit into the hole so you lose that much height on the block. I used 3/8" ply so ended up with 5 5/8" height crown. Use the crown string and set it at the correct height

I'm not sure I'm grasping what you mean, why would would you lose the thickness of the plywood from the height of the crown?

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

Gobi said:
I'm not sure I'm grasping what you mean, why would would you lose the thickness of the plywood from the height of the crown?

you would lose some height on the crown as the felt cannot go all the way to the end of the block. You need 3/8" of the block clear so it can sit in the hole of the 3/8" thick plywood. I am working on hats today and will snap a pic and load it.

drmaxtejeda · Sep 27, 2020

deadlyhandsome said:
Found Max’s fail proof system for the perfect band block!

View attachment 265028 View attachment 265029 View attachment 265030 View attachment 265031

I love ya, Max @drmaxtejeda
Miss seeing you around these parts.

Love ya too,Brent!
I had wooden band blocks made for my hats, and now only use the blue plaster one as a paper weight. A very heavy paper weight.

drmaxtejeda · Sep 27, 2020

deadlyhandsome said:
Found Max’s fail proof system for the perfect band block!

View attachment 265028 View attachment 265029 View attachment 265030 View attachment 265031

I love ya, Max @drmaxtejeda
Miss seeing you around these parts.

I forgot to say I came across a nice Borsalino in your size a while ago, and was going to message you about it, when I realized you are the seller!

belfastboy · Sep 27, 2020

drmaxtejeda said:
I forgot to say I came across a nice Borsalino in your size a while ago, and was going to message you about it, when I realized you are the seller!

Question is: would he have purchased it again?

deadlyhandsome · Sep 27, 2020

drmaxtejeda said:
I forgot to say I came across a nice Borsalino in your size a while ago, and was going to message you about it, when I realized you are the seller!

You know I came close to buying a hat a while back. As I looked at it closer it looked familiar and it turned out I had sold it to the guy just a month before. I decided against re-buying it.

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