Looking for a "buy it for life" A2

belopsky said:

What I worry about is sizing

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I will go out on a limb.

A2 uniform jackets issued to a soldier is sort of "here, try this on, it fits okay?". The Quartermaster isn't taking measurements or making alterations. You get what they have at that moment. Some guys have different bodies, and they get to wear what they get. Nobody gets a bespoke jacket. If your arms are shorter, then you still get the same jacket. If you have a short torso, then your jacket will go a few inches lower.

We are about the same height. I have a 50" chest, weigh about 40 lbs more. Shoulder and bicep is tight in any off the rack jacket. And the belly part of the torso is always baggy.

I own 1 made to order leather jacket. It was made to fit over my body armor, while I sit on my motorcycle, cut to ride over my gun belt, with longer arms to accommodate reaching the handlebars. It doesn't fit well if I am not wearing a bulletproof vest, and just walking around.

An A2 is made to be worn in a cockpit while flying. Which makes sense that the traditional cut does not have side entry handwarmer pockets or inside pocket.

belopsky said:

Are there any other jackets to consider sub $2000? (lower, better..

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Buy what you can afford. My own opinion is that you are not wearing this into a cockpit for combat. Don't worry so much about perceived brand prestige. If the jacket is comfortable, enjoy it. You don't need to spend that much unless you feel good that you spent it.

There are plenty of great jackets at 1/4 of that price. My own opinion, crafted from years of practical use, is that some of my less expensive leather works just as well as a high priced jacket. I have lower cost leather jackets which I wear, which keep the wind and rain off my back. I try it on in the store. Maybe my neighborhood tailor makes an adjustment if needed. That's it.

belopsky said:

Are there any other jackets to consider sub $2000? (lower, better..

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While connisseurs favor the exquisite appeal of higher price products, which there's nothing wrong with liking expensive jackets.....I admit that I own high price items. In hindsight, my inexpensive A2 jackets function just as well without the prestige. I have an Alpha Industries. I have a Golden Bear Sportswear. I have 1 from leathercoatsetc.com. You can look into US Wings for a low price jacket.

My favorite flight jacket, not to WWII military spec, was an issued uniform item. I reported to the airfield to fill in for a guy who got injured. The supervisor took me into a back storage closet. Next to the brooms, mops, and toilet brushes were a couple of cardboard boxes with jackets. He looked at me, then handed me an XL, and said, "try this on, does it fit?" It comes from Taylor Leather. Fits well. Warm. Plenty of pockets. Nobody outside of law enforcement has ever heard of Taylor.

MichaelRhB said:

I've been wearing my issued Cooper A-2 for over 30 years. It has served me well. Not high-end, not a reproduction, but an Air Force issued jacket. You could do worse.

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Is that what we know as the "Mark 2" version of the A2 these days, with the sided entry pockets and such? I'd consider one of those myself if I could get it in a 'try before you buy' bricks and mortar store at the right price. They do very much remind me of a lot of the a2-style civilian jackets that were widely available from the late forties through the fifties. Kind of thing Schott still do today. I see al ot of guys wearing this sort of thing on the rockabilly scene; with a little effort to get it 'right' in the sizing (as memory serves, the cut is much more generous than the original A2s), they can look great.

rockandrollrabbit said:

I'm confused. Does JC have an apprentice or something?

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Not the case with this particular jacket, but I believe John did experiment with an apprentice for a bit to see if it could help cut the waiting list, but it didn't work out. Always possible I picked the story up wrong, though.

Fifty150 said:

I will go out on a limb.

A2 uniform jackets issued to a soldier is sort of "here, try this on, it fits okay?". The Quartermaster isn't taking measurements or making alterations. You get what they have at that moment. Some guys have different bodies, and they get to wear what they get. Nobody gets a bespoke jacket. If your arms are shorter, then you still get the same jacket. If you have a short torso, then your jacket will go a few inches lower.

Click to expand...

It's definitely easy to forget that what we hobbyists now see as a 'good' A2 doesn't bear much resemblance to the mas-produced, wartime-QC originals. When you buy the top end stuff, or at least spend over a few hundred, really you're paying a premium for certain things, such as:

- first-world manufacture - for some it's about 'patriotism', for others this is about supporting a local economy, or because fewer air miles means less environmental damage (one reason a lot of people get into this 'slow fashion' game is awareness of what fast / disposable fashion does to the environment), or the comfort of knowing that your jacket has been made under certain conditions of health and safety, by a workforce on a fair local wage.

- quality control - with cheaper products in general, you can often find a real diamond in the rough and there is a joy to that. Sometimes, and especially with custom stuff you're having made to your own specs, it can be nicer to pay a bit more and know you can expect a higher level of consistency to that quality. I've owned much cheaper jackets that were just as good as a Schott, but whereas every SChott on the rail will be built to a certain standard, those cheaper jackets varied a whole lot more. Some were just as good, some far from it.

- 'the best' - The old accuracy question. When A2s were being churned out in their hundreds of thousands, economies of scale made them cheap (as they needed to be for such mass military issue, not least given how many of them would be worn for maybe a few months before the poor bugger in them became another war death statistic). Nowadays, they're a rare commodity and a lot of time and investment, not so easily spread across government contracts for tens of thousands of them, has gone into patterning, recreation, size grading... Whereas back in the war, if it was churned out to a contract it was a 'real' A2, buyers now expect 'accuracy' to a consistent pattern that probably wouldn't have been reflected if we did look at several thousand jackets from the same factory. Of course, it's a double-edged sword - as the price goes up, more is expected by the buyer. In a sense it's sometimes almost like going to Huntsman on Savile Row and asking them to make you a pair of five-pocket jeans... But then there are people who do pay the big money for jeans built to the old patterns because it's just not available anywhere else. Rarity comes into the A2 in this sense too. Also, I think, worth remembering that often one of the reasons some companies are able to make a radically cheaper product with few apparent corners being cut is because somebody else has done a huge amount of the work for them in stimulating the demand for a product (and providing examples easily purchased on the open market and reverse engineered to produce a cheaper copy - which is perfectly legal, of course).

Thing about the A2 game, like jeans, hifi, electric guitars, or those full reproductions of vintage cars, whether the 1938 Alvis or the new old Mustangs being built to the original 60s designs, there's no upper limit almost to what you can spend. Each tier up has maybe some differences, some tweaks, and, as I always say, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Everyone will have a different stop where they want to get off that train, whether the next price-band up is worth it in terns of perceived superiority or brand exclusivity. Over time, some guys find only high end will do them - others have high end they wear less often, and cheaper, beaters for daily wear.... some guys even sell off the high end because they only wear the beaters and decide that's fine for them. All personal choice, really. I've found over the years with most things that I particularly value I'll go a certain ways up the tree, and then stop. I do have my comfort-zone in terms of spending, which is important (forever chasing the next level up can be dangerous!). I think this mostly comes with experience and developing sufficient confidence in your own choices to feel you're making what you choose yourself to be the best trade off between quality and price. One thing I learned fast and early with Hifi is that sometimes even a measurable difference in sound quality isn't worth paying for if my human ear can't detect it. Fortunately for my bank balance, it's not the dog making the call on which CD player we buy....

I have a Taylor Chicago (I think) police jacket hanging in my office. Very nice thing - just old-school enough in design to work for me (it's a modern-made one, but quite a fifties design still to my eye). Very impressed with the quality, great jacket just to throw on for no particular occasion. Best of it is it was one of those things I put a silly low bid on on eBay just to watch it (you know when your watch list is full and you don't have the time to clear it out....), and I actually won it for that.

Edward said:

Is that what we know as the "Mark 2" version of the A2 these days, with the sided entry pockets and such? I'd consider one of those myself if I could get it in a 'try before you buy' bricks and mortar store at the right price. They do very much remind me of a lot of the a2-style civilian jackets that were widely available from the late forties through the fifties. Kind of thing Schott still do today. I see al ot of guys wearing this sort of thing on the rockabilly scene; with a little effort to get it 'right' in the sizing (as memory serves, the cut is much more generous than the original A2s), they can look great.



Not the case with this particular jacket, but I believe John did experiment with an apprentice for a bit to see if it could help cut the waiting list, but it didn't work out. Always possible I picked the story up wrong, though.



It's definitely easy to forget that what we hobbyists now see as a 'good' A2 doesn't bear much resemblance to the mas-produced, wartime-QC originals. When you buy the top end stuff, or at least spend over a few hundred, really you're paying a premium for certain things, such as:

- first-world manufacture - for some it's about 'patriotism', for others this is about supporting a local economy, or because fewer air miles means less environmental damage (one reason a lot of people get into this 'slow fashion' game is awareness of what fast / disposable fashion does to the environment), or the comfort of knowing that your jacket has been made under certain conditions of health and safety, by a workforce on a fair local wage.

- quality control - with cheaper products in general, you can often find a real diamond in the rough and there is a joy to that. Sometimes, and especially with custom stuff you're having made to your own specs, it can be nicer to pay a bit more and know you can expect a higher level of consistency to that quality. I've owned much cheaper jackets that were just as good as a Schott, but whereas every SChott on the rail will be built to a certain standard, those cheaper jackets varied a whole lot more. Some were just as good, some far from it.

- 'the best' - The old accuracy question. When A2s were being churned out in their hundreds of thousands, economies of scale made them cheap (as they needed to be for such mass military issue, not least given how many of them would be worn for maybe a few months before the poor bugger in them became another war death statistic). Nowadays, they're a rare commodity and a lot of time and investment, not so easily spread across government contracts for tens of thousands of them, has gone into patterning, recreation, size grading... Whereas back in the war, if it was churned out to a contract it was a 'real' A2, buyers now expect 'accuracy' to a consistent pattern that probably wouldn't have been reflected if we did look at several thousand jackets from the same factory. Of course, it's a double-edged sword - as the price goes up, more is expected by the buyer. In a sense it's sometimes almost like going to Huntsman on Savile Row and asking them to make you a pair of five-pocket jeans... But then there are people who do pay the big money for jeans built to the old patterns because it's just not available anywhere else. Rarity comes into the A2 in this sense too. Also, I think, worth remembering that often one of the reasons some companies are able to make a radically cheaper product with few apparent corners being cut is because somebody else has done a huge amount of the work for them in stimulating the demand for a product (and providing examples easily purchased on the open market and reverse engineered to produce a cheaper copy - which is perfectly legal, of course).

Thing about the A2 game, like jeans, hifi, electric guitars, or those full reproductions of vintage cars, whether the 1938 Alvis or the new old Mustangs being built to the original 60s designs, there's no upper limit almost to what you can spend. Each tier up has maybe some differences, some tweaks, and, as I always say, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Everyone will have a different stop where they want to get off that train, whether the next price-band up is worth it in terns of perceived superiority or brand exclusivity. Over time, some guys find only high end will do them - others have high end they wear less often, and cheaper, beaters for daily wear.... some guys even sell off the high end because they only wear the beaters and decide that's fine for them. All personal choice, really. I've found over the years with most things that I particularly value I'll go a certain ways up the tree, and then stop. I do have my comfort-zone in terms of spending, which is important (forever chasing the next level up can be dangerous!). I think this mostly comes with experience and developing sufficient confidence in your own choices to feel you're making what you choose yourself to be the best trade off between quality and price. One thing I learned fast and early with Hifi is that sometimes even a measurable difference in sound quality isn't worth paying for if my human ear can't detect it. Fortunately for my bank balance, it's not the dog making the call on which CD player we buy....

I have a Taylor Chicago (I think) police jacket hanging in my office. Very nice thing - just old-school enough in design to work for me (it's a modern-made one, but quite a fifties design still to my eye). Very impressed with the quality, great jacket just to throw on for no particular occasion. Best of it is it was one of those things I put a silly low bid on on eBay just to watch it (you know when your watch list is full and you don't have the time to clear it out....), and I actually won it for that.

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I really enjoyed reading these insights and thoughts. Thank you for sharing.

I thank you all for the conversation

Can we pivot to three things here?

1. Which B-6 or similar to pick up? Based on what I read over on History Preservation I should be looking for about 6-8" in the chest with those..most (except Aero) in a 42 I've seen achieve that with a 24" pit to pit. The Aero b-6 seems to be slimmer.. (This Aero b-6 44 is 24", are Aero slimmer than Eastman?)
2. Can someone point me to a nice woodier hanger? My Real McCoy shipped with one..doesn't look like cedar but it'll do, however I'd like to get something similar for my Mister Freedom Campus and whatever else I grab.
3. Back to #1, will I dislike "mobility" of the B-6? I am thinking something for winters here in Michigan to throw on, wear when I walk the dogs, otherwise in car (or maybe even bicycle!)

Maybe someone around has one of these for you:



I’m very satisfied with this version.

https://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=3938

If you live in the Americas you should get a custom made from the local carpenter for less than you’d pay for ordering from UK plus shipping...i think.

Cheers

Turnip

belopsky said:

I thank you all for the conversation

Can we pivot to three things here?

1. Which B-6 or similar to pick up? Based on what I read over on History Preservation I should be looking for about 6-8" in the chest with those..most (except Aero) in a 42 I've seen achieve that with a 24" pit to pit. The Aero b-6 seems to be slimmer.. (This Aero b-6 44 is 24", are Aero slimmer than Eastman?)
2. Can someone point me to a nice woodier hanger? My Real McCoy shipped with one..doesn't look like cedar but it'll do, however I'd like to get something similar for my Mister Freedom Campus and whatever else I grab.
3. Back to #1, will I dislike "mobility" of the B-6? I am thinking something for winters here in Michigan to throw on, wear when I walk the dogs, otherwise in car (or maybe even bicycle!)

Click to expand...

I own the Eastman Roughwear B-6 and it is a beautiful jacket. Unfortunately for me I live in a warm area here in Northern California and I never really get a chance to wear the jacket. Mobility is actually quite good in this jacket I would say. For walking the dog and driving a car, or riding a bike, you will be quite comfortable.

I so want to order one, I think I should sell my bike and get it

Edward said:

Is that what we know as the "Mark 2" version of the A2 these days, with the sided entry pockets and such? I'd consider one of those myself if I could get it in a 'try before you buy' bricks and mortar store at the right price. They do very much remind me of a lot of the a2-style civilian jackets that were widely available from the late forties through the fifties. Kind of thing Schott still do today. I see al ot of guys wearing this sort of thing on the rockabilly scene; with a little effort to get it 'right' in the sizing (as memory serves, the cut is much more generous than the original A2s), they can look great.
.

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I'm not familiar with an A-2 Mark II. This is a Cooper contract jacket made for the Air Force when they started to re-issue the A-2 in 1987.

It has no side entry pockets nor an interior pocket. It does have all of the other original features of a contract jacket.

Turnip said:

Maybe someone around has one of these for you:

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I have one of these Aero hangers, and I don't like it nearly as much as a hanger with pool noodle segments put on it. Far superior, if you ask me.

belopsky said:

1. Which B-6 or similar to pick up? Based on what I read over on History Preservation I should be looking for about 6-8" in the chest with those..most (except Aero) in a 42 I've seen achieve that with a 24" pit to pit. The Aero b-6 seems to be slimmer.. (This Aero b-6 44 is 24", are Aero slimmer than Eastman?)

Click to expand...

As ever, if you have a query about the specifics of an Aero model, it's worth dropping them a line. Both make a great B6; personally, the one I would love to buy is the Aero Redskin B6.

2. Can someone point me to a nice woodier hanger? My Real McCoy shipped with one..doesn't look like cedar but it'll do, however I'd like to get something similar for my Mister Freedom Campus and whatever else I grab.

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The Aero ones are nice. They're cut wider than an average hanger (as in left to right) to give support across the full width of the shoulders. Some folks prefer a thicker hanger, though, so it's rally personal preference.

Years ago to get rid of wire hangers, I picked up an ex-retail load of wooden hangers on eBay, which turned out great for suits and blazers. Might be another option if you see some locally.

3. Back to #1, will I dislike "mobility" of the B-6? I am thinking something for winters here in Michigan to throw on, wear when I walk the dogs, otherwise in car (or maybe even bicycle!)

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IT's a thinner shearling than in a B3; I'd say it's probably no less restrictive in manoeuvrability than a lined leather jacket the same size and a similar cut (bear in mind that the B6, like all shearlings, is essentially an unlined shell in construction).

The only question really in my mind is whether you will find you need a thicker shearling like a B3 o Irvin. I wear a hefty LW B3 in London in Winter and it's grand for me; other folks who feel the cold less have preferred a D1 or B6. YMMV.

MichaelRhB said:

I'm not familiar with an A-2 Mark II. This is a Cooper contract jacket made for the Air Force when they started to re-issue the A-2 in 1987.

It has no side entry pockets nor an interior pocket. It does have all of the other original features of a contract jacket.

Click to expand...

Ah, I'not realised there were jackets issued like that before the 'new' A2. That's interesting - definitely a good route to something along the lines of the original jackets.

rockandrollrabbit said:

I have one of these Aero hangers, and I don't like it nearly as much as a hanger with pool noodle segments put on it. Far superior, if you ask me.

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Preferences definitely vary. I know somebody on here bought one and sent it back. I have seen them in use in the Aero factory stockroom and they definitely weren't causing any ill-effects to the jackets, but as with so many things, most folks will prefer one thing or another. NHNF.

I called and spoke with Charles at HPA yesterday and we decided to have me try a B-6 in a 42
He said I could go either way, 42 or 44, but suggested I give the 42 a go if I wear more tight-fitting sweaters/hoodies and like the trim fit on my A-2, additionally he said the 44 may feel a bit long on someone my height although either would be good. No concerns with the sleeves being too long on the B-6.

Muji hangers
https://www.muji.eu/pages/online.asp?ukupd=y&sec=6&sub=26

With Good Wear being such a long wait right now, I think Rainbow Country is a good option under $2k. They are made by the same place that makes Freewheelers apparently. They are top notch in quality with gorgeous leather.

Looks like you've received a lot of good advise for purchasing your A2 for life.
I would just have one suggestion for you, that you might consider.
Think about purchasing a previously owned, mint condition, top tier A2.
The jacket will be one of the more authentic reproduction jackets, made of the finest horsehide. but the best part is that you won't take a hit for the big bucks that a top tier normally costs and you'll save a couple of hundred dollars in the process.
I've purchased several previously owned jackets over the years and they all still look outstanding and haven't lost any of their value. Simply because I took some time and found sellers who bought the jackets new and tired of them within a year and sold them off with little or no wear time on them.
Whatever you decide I'm sure it will be the right decision for you
Cheers