Custom Simmons-Bilt Cross Zip fit- seeking opinions

Saddest thing is that... It's otherwise a REALLY nice jacket. Looks really good even tho it doesn't fit the OP at all, but it's just a very nice jacket.

But with so many great options available to us Service Counts.

TREEMAN said:

This is the best advice. Letter and Leather in a box !! Return at once !! One week went by already waiting for them to answer. Get it out of the house so you don't have to keep looking at it and making yourself sick...........

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Absolutely, and I hope that you are still within the range of time where you can dispute the charge with your credit card company.
What a shame that they chose to handle the situation this way.

I do not know what communication went into the order but ordering a high-end leather jacket by size alone can end in disappointment. For example, an Aero Highwayman for most wear's intention of fit needs to be ordered two sizes down, want a 40 fit need to order 38. Aero bootlegger fit large to size also

I've shared my SB story in bits and pieces, but let me do Cliffs Notes version again.

MOnth ago or so, actually saw Justin's post about SB leather choices on the same day I was poking around the SB site to pick out a jacket. Followed along and liked what I saw (most likely the Dark Brown Lux). Even pinged Justin on DM to wish him luck and let me know how it turned out.

Meanwhile I exchanged a few emails with them. The response time was scattered at best. 3 or 4 days or more in between responses, usually more. Very nice lady, would answer all my questions except anything on size. It was very clear I knew about jackets, knew jacket size "factors" and knew exactly what I wanted. I was giving her body measurements and tight range of what I was expecting that to translate to on the jacket.

All I wanted to know was how close I was to stock because they offer some services like sleeve/body length for basically free and they'll do a shoulder or waist alteration for about $125ish, or worst case there was a pattern redesign for much more. This last one seemed extreme because I don't have some funky wonky body, but probably would need a better taper in the waist to accommodate my dimensions. Anyway, wanted to ultimately know how much the jacket was going to cost with any changes, or if I had spend money altering, would rather do during the build and be done with it. Wasn't even like I was trying to cheap out But if I don't know the stock size, how can I figure any of that out?

In like 5 or 6 emails I could not get an answer on size. Basically got, trust us, once you pay I 'll turn this info to some guy who will know what size you are. I wrote back that I won't place an order unless I know the p2p, shoulder and bottom hem on size 40 and 42 on a couple different jacket styles.

Ironically, next day, Justin started posting picks and the rest is history. BTW, they never replied to my last email anyway.

This is not a fluke. Buyer beware!!! In hindsight, I"m glad they took so long to answer a few of my earlier emails, because who knows, I might have just pushed forward "trusting" the process. Jacket looks amazing, top notch leather options, cool styles, but all that is moot if it don't fit. It's like having a Ferrari show up with no gas tank. All you can do is stare at it.

It took four emails and seven days to get the initial response, that that is the was just how a 38 is supposed to fit.

I sent a link to this post and got a response within an hour that they will refund me and take it back. Still not accepting any responsibility, not that I care about that.

^^
LOOOOOOOOOL. At least you will get your money back. Take it and go to Greg Field or Aero.

^^ that was quick this time round, hope they make it right by you.

Smh, terrible optics, why would it take this thread to change their time. Glad I decided not to buy from them.

Glad you will get your money back!
But the damage to their reputation is already done here. The message I’m seeing is that if they screwed up on sizing, you’d have to post about it on a public forum for their return policy to be applicable. That’s not... great.

It’s so annoying when these makers don’t disclose stock size measurements. Why wouldn’t they? How do they cut patterns? In this respect, Aero is also the same. They won’t say.

Mich486 said:

It’s so annoying when these makers don’t disclose stock size measurements. Why wouldn’t they? How do they cut patterns? In this respect, Aero is also the same. They won’t say.

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If you inquire they will. I’ve gotten numbers for a particular size/style. They won’t post them and that’s something I think all makers should do as it would alleviate so many sizing snafus. One thing I have noticed about SB of late, everything got bigger. My first few felt like they were sized down (44” fits like a 42”) but the last 44” I had felt like a 48”.

Trust me I did when I put in my custom order and the response I got at the time was that they didn’t have any jacket of the same style/size in stock to measure.

Mich486 said:

Trust me I did when I put in my custom order and the response I got at the time was that they didn’t have any jacket of the same style/size in stock to measure.

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It was the same for me. I don’t get it. They’ve been producing a style of jacket for at least several years. They should know the measurements for all different sizes without having to measure a jacket that’s hanging in the showroom.

Exactly why would they need a jacket in stock to provide measurements?!

I think relying on body measurements sent in by the customers is a much riskier game for the maker. In the case of the OP for instance they could just have stated the size 38 and 40 stock measurements so he could compare them with an existing jacket that fit and adjust length as needed. I bet the final jacket would’ve been not so ill fitting.

Mich486 said:

Exactly why would they need a jacket in stock to provide measurements?!

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They don't. They only need to check their patterns to know the base measurements.

When I asked Eastman about a particular model, they simply sent me their size chart:

When I was discussing sizing with Greg (Field Leathers), he told me his halfbelt pattern size 42 had a ptp of 22.5'. I'm pretty certain he didn't need to measure up a stock jacket in order to be able to tell me that.

There's only one reason I can think of why they wouldn't want to tell you. By giving exact measurements, a customer is able to complain afterwards when the jacket he received turned out to be off in one way or the other.

Marc mndt said:

They don't. They only need to check their patterns to know the base measurements.

When I asked Eastman about a particular model, they simply sent me their size chart: View attachment 280304

When I was discussing sizing with Greg (Field Leathers), he told me his halfbelt pattern size 42 had a ptp of 22.5'. I'm pretty certain he didn't need to measure up a stock jacket in order to be able to tell me that.

There's only one reason I can think of why they wouldn't want to tell you. By giving exact measurements, a customer is able to complain afterwards when the jacket he received turned out to be off in one way or the other.

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This issue could have numerous potetial explanations. Simmons Bilt used to provide size numbers - I remember their size 42 half-belt was 22.5cm pit to pit. And most 42's I have seen by them are indeed this size. But I do think their sizes like Aero's vary between patterns. This jacket looks to be sized in error and I don't think it is typical of their work.

Seb Lucas said:

There could be other reasons.

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Maybe they're afraid other companies will steal 'their' patterns

The answer you got from Eastman seems the only logical to me and the one I’d expect when i enquiry about sizes before putting down a grand towards a jacket!

As long as they make clear upfront their error tolerance, then it is just a matter of them being able to stick to their own specs. I think it’s fair to expect that from a customer perspective and for the maker to accept a return/refund if not.

On the other hand, by not providing measurements you create situations like this where they stick in a 38 size label and the measurements are clearly all over the place but you have little to go by.