Collector or Consumer?

Short Balding Guy said:

+1 to Jack's advocating treating the vintage hats with respect and not modifying them. Using them as they were designed seems to me to be the respectful thing to do. The added value to me is knowing it was as designed, manufactured and sold. Increased value for the history of the "retail chain" (manufacturer, retailer & owner(s)). I now admite that knowing the "chain" is a value that has grown on me. At first the brands, models, features captured me. I now have an increased appreciation to the "chain."

Perhaps the option of Collector or Consumer should have an other option. I would like to think of myself as a hat/cap aficianto. Aficianto, as in one who appreciates the different hats/caps out in the world. I actually find some amusement and can appreciate those who pick up a "fedora" at Target. With empathy and respect I understand their purchase and passion. Will it develop to a Fedora Lounge Hat level? Perhaps, but I still appreciate. Denigrating the choice is showing disrespect to the individuals decision. Without knowing more of the purchase influence and decision, we could only make a partial judgement. It is not good enough for me to call "error."

It is hard not to judge based upon the "code of points" that is based upon my preferences. The human condition is one of great variability in 2020 and our judgements should reflect that breadth, IMO.

Consumer/collector/afficianto's of hats/caps can find a home on this forum, IMO.

Watching the meteor showers while composing and typing this evening, Eric -

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I personally agree and get a little squeamish when others modify a vintage hat. I realize that there is a finite number of these hats available and this modified version is no longer the real deal. However, just as I wouldn’t say that someone shouldn’t pay some huge sum for a rare hat or that the money would be better spent on home humanitarian pursuit, I also don’t feel comfortable telling others that what they are doing with their own personal property (rare vintage hat) is wrong. The fact that others collect differently than I do or find satisfaction is collecting and modifying a rare item is up to them. It’s not my place to criticize them. It’s not my place to tell them how they should collect or what they are to do with their own property.

It’s similar to my political views: I might be absolutely convinced I’m right and be very passionate, but I don’t demand that everyone see the world as I do. I understand that thinking intelligent people can have reached different conclusions than I have. I have no problem trying to gently persuade others, but there has been some pretty boorish behavior towards some here because they collect differently. Intolerance gets my hackles up even when I’m not the target.

Eric, you have always comported yourself as the perfect gentleman, and I think you/we have every right to voice our reasons for preservation and not modifying hats. While you hold these beliefs, I could never imagine you criticizing another member or making them feel unwelcome on The Lounge as has happened here from others.

Definitely a consumer. I only buy brand new hats in my current size. And I only have around eight in my annual rotation, which doesn't remotely qualify as a real collection on this forum.

The only vintage hats I own are ones that I bought new or used MYSELF back in the sixties/seventies when I was a teenage collector... and they're now two sizes too small for me.

glider said:

I'm not sure money has anything to do with this actually. Cool old hats are where you find them, I've picked up some nice hats over the years for very little money. I am kinda tight though, I just recently passed on a Stetson gun club that 60 bucks probably would have bought. It just wasn't worth that to me. That was probably a steal for someone that really wanted it, I didn't.

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I do agree with this sentiment. It's a personal matter, but I don't see the sense of throwing money at a hobby just to check off a box. Now, this is subjective depending on what your wallet and sense of value can handle, but half the fun to me is scoring something without having to pay through the nose for it. Finding that gem at an estate sale for a fraction of the price you would pay on eBay, or (better yet), finding that BIN on eBay before somebody else does.

Short Balding Guy said:

+1 to Jack's advocating treating the vintage hats with respect and not modifying them. Using them as they were designed seems to me to be the respectful thing to do. The added value to me is knowing it was as designed, manufactured and sold. Increased value for the history of the "retail chain" (manufacturer, retailer & owner(s)). I now admite that knowing the "chain" is a value that has grown on me. At first the brands, models, features captured me. I now have an increased appreciation to the "chain." My exception "category" is the hats that have been truly worn and whooped. Modification or refurb is needed for these. My analogy would be that of a vintage auto. Whooped and not able to be usable vintage, then should be modified. No black and white for me as the spectrum is wide and diverse.

Perhaps the option of Collector or Consumer should have an other option. I would like to think of myself as a hat/cap aficianto. Aficianto, as in one who appreciates the different hats/caps out in the world. I actually find some amusement and can appreciate those who pick up a "fedora" at Target. With empathy and respect I understand their purchase and passion. Will it develop to a Fedora Lounge Hat level? Perhaps, but I still appreciate. Denigrating the choice is showing disrespect to the individuals decision. Without knowing more of the purchase influence and decision, we could only make a partial judgement. It is not good enough for me to call "error."

It is hard not to judge based upon the "code of points" that is based upon my preferences. The human condition is one of great variability in 2020 and our judgements should reflect that breadth, IMO.

Consumer/collector/afficianto's of hats/caps can find a home on this forum, IMO.

Watching the meteor showers while composing and typing this evening, Eric -

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Eric, I am glad you mentioned the "chain." That is a valued addition to the provenance of a hat, and grounds it in the real world. Good point.

Short Balding Guy said:

I actually find some amusement and can appreciate those who pick up a "fedora" at Target. With empathy and respect I understand their purchase and passion. Will it develop to a Fedora Lounge Hat level? Perhaps, but I still appreciate. Denigrating the choice is showing disrespect to the individuals decision. Without knowing more of the purchase influence and decision, we could only make a partial judgement. It is not good enough for me to call "error."

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I want to point out a couple of things that are getting lost in the translation of this thread here. The FL has always been about original vintage hats & the custom cloning of such hats that no longer survive. How many times a month does someone get to field the question from a newbie, "How old is my hat?" That's the first thing everyone wants to know. If vintage hats were not the interest then why the emphasis on things such as catalogs, ephemera & the chain? It has only been in recent times that the consumer grade hats from a store such as Target or LL Bean have been showing up here. This has been an ongoing discussion for sometime now.

Posters not familiar with the discussion are posting that they are consumers because they wear their hats & don't have any safe queens. No one has ever advocated that you don't wear your vintage hats. And if you have a safe queen or two that's not a problem either. What has been advocated is that you take care of & not modify a rare vintage hat in your possession. And I agree totally with Mark's (@M Hatman) contention that not every old hat is a valuable unicorn. But there is only a finite number of good vintage hats including unicorns out there; why would anyone ever want to permanently alter or destroy one?

Not modifying a rare vintage hat is something the market will take care of. Unless of course someone has one and doesn't know what it's worth in original condition but that's going to be rare. It would be like hot rodding a Packard

Well, ...NOW that my name has been brought up........

I am BOTH a consumer AND a collector (with the greater emphasis on the latter)......

I CONSUME modern clothes, suits, hats....{though thanks to Stetson and others THAT line is becoming blurry, what with the limited production and therefore availability of some of their few good hat lines....( I am thinking specifically of hats such as the Stetsonian, Fortune and Glory, and the PREMIER versions of the Whippet and Stratoliner Stetson makes, or rather made, AND the hats of others which are becoming desirable with the attendant price increases)......}. So, YES, I do go through and dispose of my modern consumables (usually by way of donation to Salvation Army)......or when broke (beyond repair, YES, I DO repair things and grew up that way...I am one of them).

As for our OTHER modern crap.....I suppose there exists a possibility 50 years from now, some of those hats (and customs) as well as "other" stuff, will become quite desirable by someone....(perhaps our decedents who want a connection back to us?????.

BUT, I have always been a collector with a great deal of respect for the past for both what it actually was, as well as what it (seems to) represents to us now (often quite diametrically opposed visions if not actual real fact).

I have sought out and carry an appropriate actual Victorian watch(s) when I wear such items for a living history (taking care of course)...(and would never dream of putting a modern movement in an old case just to say I have a Victorian watch). For a very few occasions, and under controlled circumstances I have even worn actual Victorian clothing (that fit, I will NOT alter a vintage frock suit to fit me). AND of course I can and DO wear many vintage hats, but with a good deal of care....not in a bad rain, out cleaning stalls, "mudding around" on a 4 wheeler" of other "hazardous duty".....for those activities I grab a modern beater.....

THEREFOR, I find altering virtually anything vintage (and ANTIQUE) for modern use, to be a sort of sinful aberration to be avoided at all costs. ESPECIALLY as referred to and seen on this forum, where people (simply for the sake of "Look...Look.....LOOK at ME and what I have acquired and YOU have not....." and to check off a box of I can wear it too!!!!! (that is after I have it "fitted") and ALTERED something for those reasons and NO other reasonable explanation. They have DESTROYED the very thing they sought so much to acquire......they may as well now burn it in their funeral pyre as they have destroyed the very history it once contained...... Once altered it is altered forever...........even the common now, will not always be so in another 50 years.......

While there is the "it's there money" crowd and to a point they are right, BUT, just because I may have the money to purchase a suit worn by George Washington, DOES NOT MEAN I should just tear it apart and make it over so I can wear it to the next costume ball honoring his birthday in February.....waltzing around saying "Look at ME in George Washington Suit" as in a very real way, it is no longer his suit "with the attendant history"....nor will ever be again....

NO, I can never, will never, condone THAT. And (as Jack has pointed out) while I have said not everything vintage is a Holy Grail....(hats included) {with everything here on the lounge (all the wonderful information), as others have pointed out lately...I am constantly aghast at the number of people with a 60's singy brim, or a Stetson clearly marked with a UPC tag, or a 50's-60's-70's hat with a cellophane tip protector, who think each of these hats is a "Holy Grail" from the 1920's or older..." BUT this is a discussion for another thread...} Never the less, even the most common (for now, their numbers WILL dwindle sooner than we may wish) vintage deserves respect.

So....IF PRESSED.....I AM A COLLECTOR!!!!! Whew.......now I feel better.......if only I could figure out what to do with all this crap......excuse me...."vintage collectables".......hopefully my legatees will get some good $$$$ on "the Bay".......(or it will all end up in MY Funeral Pyre)......

NOTE: there ARE some few occasions when even a vintage item no longer is in the condition to represent what it once did..or to be even professionally restored......in that case...alter away......

glider said:

Not modifying a rare vintage hat is something the market will take care of. Unless of course someone has one and doesn't know what it's worth in original condition but that's going to be rare. It would be like hot rodding a Packard

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I actually HAS been done here......a LOT actually.....and I have seen in person a hot rodded Packard.....(shows up here a couple of time a year)

M Hatman said:

Well, ...NOW that my name has been brought up........

I am BOTH a consumer AND a collector (with the greater emphasis on the latter)......

I CONSUME modern clothes, suits, hats....{though thanks to Stetson and others THAT line is becoming blurry, what with the limited production and therefore availability of some of their few good hat lines....( I am thinking specifically of hats such as the Stetsonian, Fortune and Glory, and the PREMIER versions of the Whippet and Stratoliner Stetson makes, or rather made, AND the hats of others which are becoming desirable with the attendant price increases)......}. So, YES, I do go through and dispose of my modern consumables (usually by way of donation to Salvation Army)......or when broke (beyond repair, YES, I DO repair things and grew up that way...I am one of them).

As for our OTHER modern crap.....I suppose there exists a possibility 50 years from now, some of those hats (and customs) as well as "other" stuff, will become quite desirable by someone....(perhaps our decedents who want a connection back to us?????.

BUT, I have always been a collector with a great deal of respect for the past for both what it actually was, as well as what it (seems to) represents to us now (often quite diametrically opposed visions if not actual real fact).

I have sought out and carry an appropriate actual Victorian watch(s) when I wear such items for a living history (taking care of course)...(and would never dream of putting a modern movement in an old case just to say I have a Victorian watch). For a very few occasions, and under controlled circumstances I have even worn actual Victorian clothing (that fit, I will NOT alter a vintage frock suit to fit me). AND of course I can and DO wear many vintage hats, but with a good deal of care....not in a bad rain, out cleaning stalls, "mudding around" on a 4 wheeler" of other "hazardous duty".....for those activities I grab a modern beater.....

THEREFOR, I find altering virtually anything vintage (and ANTIQUE) for modern use, to be a sort of sinful aberration to be avoided at all costs. ESPECIALLY as referred to and seen on this forum, where people (simply for the sake of "Look...Look.....LOOK at ME and what I have acquired and YOU have not....." and to check off a box of I can wear it too!!!!! (that is after I have it "fitted")..

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I understand that there isn’t complete agreement on the duty to preserve vintage items in an unaltered state. I strongly suspect that a large majority of us believe they should be preserved. What I don’t agree with is the harsh judgments on those who see things differently. Rarely are people convinced by caustic individuals spewing intolerance and holier-than-thou judgements.

I would agree that just because you paid for a Van Gogh doesn’t give you the “right” to destroy it. I’m not sure how to balance that with my equally strong feelings on private ownership of property. I suppose the latter is to me an immutable personal liberty while the former is just an emotional feeling. I suppose we are all just different places on a continuum on what makes something rare, when something becomes “vintage” or old enough to merit protected status, and on the historical importance of hats as it pertains to preserving our heritage.

The argument could also be made that we should not be wearing our “vintage” hats as we are damaging them and speeding up their eventual demise by doing so. If we believe they should be preserved doesn’t that mean completely, or are we okay with our causing their undeniable incremental deterioration but not alright with someone else modifying them?

At the start of The Fedora Lounge it was about Indiana Jones as this place is a spin off from Club Obi Wan. If you want the purity of The Fedora Lounge as it was at the beginning there are a WHOLE lot of threads and topics that are not true to the pure faith.

I am reminded of this scene from The Last Man on Earth:

By a strict reading of the OP, I fall in the consumer side. I only buy hats that fit me and that I intend to wear. It's not uncommon among collectors of things to have a few extra special ones that don't come out every day, and I would grant a few of my hats in that status. For example, I consider myself just a steward of my pre-war Stetsons, and do my best to make sure they maintain their integrity while they are in my possession. I do consider them historical objects of a sort. They are artifacts of a manufacturing process that isn't replicable today, in spite of the fact that so much of that hat industry still uses lots of old machinery. I particularly appreciate those old Boss Raw Edge style hats because exceedingly few makers today can quite nail the elegant profile of a vintage curled edge.

My interest in hats has definitely been driven by my collecting habits though. I came to fine felt hats in a round about way. I had worn hats (mostly ballcaps) when I was younger, mostly as a means to not fuss with my hair. The Indy hat was my entry to felt hats. Which is kind of an interesting place to start, because one is immediately confronted by the vintage/modern/custom debate.

My Indy fandom is of course an extension of my pop culture interests that all starts with Star Wars. My older brother and I had a shared collection of vintage star wars toys. I was just a bit too young to have been around when that stuff was actually on store shelves, so getting new additions was always a hunt. I still pick up the stray figure here and there. On the other hand I recently discovered a cache in my closet while moving out, and now can't remember why I have so many duplicates? I also have too many basses for barely being able to play, but you know, one P-bass is not like another, and definitely not like a semi-hollow.

Anyhow, hats became the next thing. I first started exploring vintage hats after wandering over here from COW and hearing about how vintage felts were better. And then it just snowballed. Obviously I 'needed' a vintage OR. Then I 'needed' a 100. Then a pre war hat. Then...well, you get it.

There are some more vintage hats I'd certainly like to scoop up (long hair western; a San Fran model; BOP; Boss Raw Edge variants) and I do find extra "cool factor" in hats sold originally out of the Bay Area. My interest generally lies in Stetson hats now, but a little bit of that is to restrain my own acquisition habits. I could easily jump down a very expensive Borsalino rabbit hole if I wasn't careful.

deadlyhandsome said:

I understand that there isn’t complete agreement on the duty to preserve vintage items in an unaltered state. I strongly suspect that a large majority of us believe they should be preserved. What I don’t agree with is the harsh judgments on those who see things differently. Rarely are people convinced by caustic individuals spewing intolerance and holier-than-thou judgements.

I would agree that just because you paid for a Van Gogh doesn’t give you the “right” to destroy it. I’m not sure how to balance that with my equally strong feelings on private ownership of property. I suppose the latter is to me an immutable personal liberty while the former is just an emotional feeling. I suppose we are all just different places on a continuum on what makes something rare, when something becomes “vintage” or old enough to merit protected status, and on the historical importance of hats as it pertains to preserving our heritage.

The argument could also be made that we should not be wearing our “vintage” hats as we are damaging them and speeding up their eventual demise by doing so. If we believe they should be preserved doesn’t that mean completely, or are we okay with our causing their undeniable incremental deterioration but not alright with someone else modifying them?

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Sorry you found my comments offensive........and perhaps "intolerant" and "holier -than - thou".

I stand by them......AND I feel the same about the people destroying our statues and burning our citties........just because they think they to have the right.....

You can feel free to burn such paintings and history you can afford..........

But, NEVER ask me to condone or accept it as "OK", nor do I have to assuage anyone's ego by telling them they can always do as THEY feel best......and to hell with anyone else.......they can just look elsewhere for such petting.

I have read a lot lately (both here on the lounge elsewhere) where I HAVE NO RIGHT TO MY OPINION, and must always be "Tolerant".....even while our town is on fire....

Well, my opinion is to inform everyone that they need to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" as a retired Baltimore Fire Chief friend of mine is fond of saying, and just take care of the problem, together......AND I DO NOT CARE IF SOMEONE IS OFFENDED. I am not here to pet their tender ego.........

This is the crap that has made several of our old sages step back quite a bit......I think I will now again too........

So.....buy and destroy as you see fit........my opinion matters not. People can do as they wish......but again, do not look to me to condone it........

Now as to encouraging everyone in their hat selections......I have always liked everyone and anyone buying ANY kind of hat from Trilby, wool, cloth, all manner of animal felt, to a silk topper (just not baseball caps)......and I always will.

Best,
Mark

EDIT PS: NO fires have been set, no one shot at. I have NEVER harassed anyone by PM, nor have I said ANYONE has to do as I say.......I just expound my opinion as a "collector, curator, historian".........with a deep passion for history......anyone can ignore me as I can them........THAT is in the end OUR collective human right......well fought for these last 250 years or so.......

M Hatman said:

Sorry you found my comments offensive........and perhaps "intolerant" and "holier -than - thou".

I stand by them......AND I feel the same about the people destroying our statues and burning our citties........just because they think they to have the right.....

You can feel free to burn such paintings and history you can afford..........

But, NEVER ask me to condone or accept it as "OK", nor do I have to assuage anyone's ego by telling them they can always do as THEY feel best......and to hell with anyone else.......they can just look elsewhere for such petting.

I have read a lot lately (both here on the lounge elsewhere) where I HAVE NO RIGHT TO MY OPINION, and must always be "Tolerant".....even while our town is on fire....

Well, my opinion is to inform everyone that they need to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" as a retired Baltimore Fire Chief friend of mine is fond of saying, and just take care of the problem, together......AND I DO NOT CARE IF SOMEONE IS OFFENDED. I am not here to pet their tender ego.........

This is the crap that has made several of our old sages step back quite a bit......I think I will now again too........

So.....buy and destroy as you see fit........my opinion matters not. People can do as they wish......but again, do not look to me to condone it........

Now as to encouraging everyone in their hat selections......I have always liked everyone and anyone buying ANY kind of hat from Trilby, wool, cloth, all manner of animal felt, to a silk topper (just not baseball caps)......and I always will.

Best,
Mark

EDIT PS: NO fires have been set, no one shot at. I have NEVER harassed anyone by PM, nor have I said ANYONE has to do as I say.......I just expound my opinion as a "collector, curator, historian".........with a deep passion for history......anyone can ignore me as I can them........THAT is in the end OUR collective human right......well fought for these last 250 years or so.......

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Mark, my comments were not all directed at you. I hope you didn’t take it personal or take offense where none was intended.

I’m all for differences of opinion and enjoy a spirited debate. I also expect mutual respect and tolerance of differing opinions.

I might not agree with a certain religion or a political stance and feel free to make counter arguments. I also think it’s usually appropriate to voice opinions. I generally think it’s fine to try to convince others to see things your way. What I don’t approve of are personal criticisms of others because they collect hats differently or don’t feel the same need to preserve a vintage item in its original condition. No one is asking you to condone anything or to not give an opinion, but some members have been harsh and made other members feel unwelcome and even driven them away.

Someone might feel that cows are sacred and should be treated with respect and protection, and they could feel very strongly about this; however, I don’t think it’s appropriate for them to lecture me for eating a steak. I also don’t think members should be lectured to or criticized for how they collect or for modifying vintage items. That’s my opinion and I believe I’m free to express it.

I don’t think it’s fair to conflate my request for tolerance and gentlemanly comportment with the social turmoil we are going through: apples and hand grenades. And again, I’m decidedly on your side of the argument and for preservation, but I’ve seen some behavior here that is just not fitting.

Mark, I appreciate your passion and your contributions. Most of us post the same old stuff over and over and don’t really add anything of significance to The Lounge. You, on the other hand, provided information and photos not available elsewhere. I certainly didn’t mean to offend. Although we see things differently and have never met, I consider you a friend have great respect for your passion and your knowledge. Please forgive me if I offended you, again: it was not my intent.

Brent

M Hatman said:

I actually HAS been done here......a LOT actually.....and I have seen in person a hot rodded Packard.....(shows up here a couple of time a year)

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I have seen a hot rod Packard also but it was built from a Packard that was way beyond restoration. The guy that owned it told me that he had gotten death threats because of it. It was a bad comparison on my part, a vintage Packard in original condition is much more important to history than a 40 year old Stetson. Just my opinion ! If a hat is in need of some serious work and when doing the restoration work some modifications were made, well I really don't have a problem with that. On the other hand a pristine 40 year old Stetson should be kept original. That's my opinion, if you don't like that I have others.

I don't own any valuable vintage collectable hats unless you consider a few older Borsalinos but I do understand the passion about not altering a great vintage hat . My feelings, unfortunately for me, would extend to wearing them lest I damage them or shorten their life span. So with hats I have avoided that conundrum. However, I greatly experience this with my vintage mountain bike collecting. I have found great vintage bikes in pristine condition and purchased them for much less original but then never rode them as I didn't want to be the guy to destroy a bike than can never be replicated ever again....a part of history.

I have also lovingly restored vintage to their original glory and then just rode them around the block never on a trail lest i ruin their pristine condition. I admired them, loved looking at them but never really got to thrash the trails with them and eventually sold them all as it made no sense to me. I now have just 8 bikes that I ride.....no more garage queens allowed.

deadlyhandsome said:

It’s a fun pastime to hunt for hats, refine searches, find new sources of hats, and share photos etc. with those who share an interest.

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Certainly another "motivation" is the hunt itself, not unlike hunters or fishermen. "Gathering hats" is not exclusively about consuming or collecting as many enjoy the thrill of the hunt, finding hats with rare or unique features, or just hats they have not handled before. And that, too, is a worthwhile motivator that provides many with hours, days, months, or even years of enjoyment.

GHT said:

Exactly so. Your entire post is an accomplished observation both of the pleasure of collecting and in describing the many members of The Lounge from many different countries and cultures. Whilst the popular social media sites seem to be nothing more than a platform for making cruel, spiteful attacks from an anonymous computer, The Lounge remains civilized, refined and virtually spat-free. Long may it be so.

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Quite so. I am a member of a couple of other social media gathering sites (not hat related) and I tire of them quickly. I glean a bit of information on occasion but I often wonder why I keep active. Every post tends to be met with comments about one item not being as good as another or posts demonizing the individual or making wild generalizations that do not apply to the topic. There is little real discussion on the unique features or merits of the item or object presented. TFL has its share of disagreements but they are almost always civil, and I appreciate being a part of this collective group. We have fun, share important information about hats and history, and generally complement each other for snagging and sharing "the next great hat".

Frunobulax said:

Hats, on the other hand, are more outward and because they are two or three deviations from the mean, noticeable.

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Well said!!! As I was unaware initially, one aspect of hats that attracts me is that they are common (in one sense of the word) and known to people in general. BUT, as you say, wearing something other than a ball cap or a cowboy hat is completely outside the norm in this day and age. I don't dress for other people but I do find satisfaction in owning a few items (in this case, hats) that are exceedingly rare and not often seen. As I said in an earlier post, I don't much think about the shirt, jeans, or slacks I wear after I put them on in the morning. Hats, on the other hand, are something I am aware of as I go through my day. As silly as it may seem, I actually feel better, and maybe feel better about myself, when I wear a hat.

Bushman said:

I like to collect items beyond the sake of collecting them. I like to USE the items I've accrued

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Me too, brother! I respect the true historian and the truly historical hat and the people and museums who collect them. But that is not me. I don't want to own a full-sized "model", I want something I can USE! I love me some muscle cars and old motorcycles but if I can't ride them on the street, they would just be sitting in a dark garage gathering dust. And that, to me, is counter to my beliefs about extending and sharing the history of vintage "stuff", including vintage hats. I think that is an additional attraction of this kind of hobby as well. In all but a few situations, all of us can appreciate and have learned how to handle and wear some extraordinarily rare hats without damaging them - our way of "sharing history with the world" I suppose.

Short Balding Guy said:

Consumer/collector/officiant's of hats/caps can find a home on this forum, IMO.

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Thank you, Eric. You continue to honor us with your collection and your thoughts. In this thread, I am curious as to our collective motivations and I posed a couple of general definitions; collector or consumer. Being an aficionado or having a heightened interest in hats certainly qualifies as a motivation. I suppose many of us, myself included, started out in that manner. I have always been interested in hats but only when I was able to own and wear a few of my own did I begin to understand and enjoy all the dynamics of this "hat experience" and how, unknown at the time, this interest would take me farther into history than I ever expected. I am grateful to all of you on TFL for sharing your hats and, perhaps even more, for sharing your expertise about the design and construction of felt and straw hats and the wonderful history that goes with them. Perhaps that is why my interest in bowlers has evolved into what it is. Whether they are new or old, there just seems to be an inherent "history" that goes along with a bowler. Thanks again, Eric. Please keep those great hats coming, I love to see what the next day brings!

Consumer here. More of my hats were bought new or made custom for me than I have vintage. I used to shop vintage looking for bargains but I always ended up wtih garbage. Once I settled on a style, Stratoliner or close to it, then I could focus my buying where the dollars would do the most good.