Help me find this hat?

belfastboy · Dec 2, 2020

jlee562 said:
The Brass Rooster hats may be demonstrative of vintage felt density, but being as they were finished by Brass Rooster, not so much indicative of how vintage hats were finished, nor representative of how a factory fresh NOS hat would have been.

Some among us have come to use "soft hand" to refer to the tactile qualities of the felt and not its malleability per se.

I use it in the context of both the tactile softness of the touch/feel as well as malleability. I really like the hand of my two contemporary Stetsonians as well as the few vintage Stetsons I own. I had a few lower end Stetsons early on in my collecting days, 2 Chathams amongst them and disliked the stiff, cardboard, complete unmalleability of those hats. To me they just felt cheap and the feel represented the lower price point, the lower quality of that model.

johnnycanuck · Dec 2, 2020

?!? JerryC wanted to know about a brand new Stetson Chatham or the Stetson Sutley. Not vintage. I didn’t make comment because the last modern stetson fedora I felt was over ten years ago. Things change, but some here have commented about stiffness, cardboard like and dye powder becoming a problem again. We’re they one offs? Has the quality slipped again? We’re they old stock from before they got better? Who knows. Someone has an experience that’s different from your own, voice your own experience. Doesn’t mean either experience is wrong or right.
Live and let like people.
Johnny

VetPsychWars · Dec 2, 2020

jlee562 said:
The Brass Rooster hats may be demonstrative of vintage felt density, but being as they were finished by Brass Rooster, not so much indicative of how vintage hats were finished, nor representative of how a factory fresh NOS hat would have been.

Some among us have come to use "soft hand" to refer to the tactile qualities of the felt and not its malleability per se.

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

As I do not fondle my hats, I'm somewhat confused why you care, but that you do is none of my business.

Personally, I think John makes them too soft. Next week I'll stop by and get a couple stiffened up a bit. I would almost prefer they did the alcohol and shellac method!

jlee562 · Dec 2, 2020

VetPsychWars said:
Ah, thank you for the clarification.

As I do not fondle my hats, I'm somewhat confused why you care, but that you do is none of my business.

Personally, I think John makes them too soft. Next week I'll stop by and get a couple stiffened up a bit. I would almost prefer they did the alcohol and shellac method!

I really don't care what your preferences are. You're the one that seem to have a chip on their shoulder about it, so much as to bring it up out of the blue in this thread.

My comment was only about how hats were historically made as you made quite a broad, blanket statement. As this thread was recently brought up because a new poster was looking for something akin to a Stetson Playboy, I would again question the assertion that even a NOS Playboy would have come with "cardboardy" like felt.

Still though, not my hill to die on.

AbbaDatDeHat · Dec 2, 2020

VetPsychWars said:
NOS Stratoliners, so immediate postwar. My cadet blue Strat is quite stiff. Audible *snap* when you pull the brim down in front.

Late 40s?? Cadet blue Strat that still snaps....let’s see it!!
B

VetPsychWars · Dec 2, 2020

jlee562 said:
I really don't care what your preferences are. You're the one that seem to have a chip on their shoulder about it, so much as to bring it up out of the blue in this thread.

My comment was only about how hats were historically made as you made quite a broad, blanket statement. As this thread was recently brought up because a new poster was looking for something akin to a Stetson Playboy, I would again question the assertion that even a NOS Playboy would have come with "cardboardy" like felt.

Still though, not my hill to die on.

Eh, don't worry about it. Just think, "what a dick!" and move on. Life's too short as it is.

VetPsychWars · Dec 2, 2020

AbbaDatDeHat said:
Late 40s?? Cadet blue Strat that still snaps....let’s see it!!
B

Here ya go.

AbbaDatDeHat · Dec 2, 2020

VetPsychWars said:
Here ya go.

View attachment 285604

View attachment 285605

Stunning!!!
Thank you.
If you ever want to pass it on i’d be happy to help it along.
B

VetPsychWars · Dec 2, 2020

Johnny Mac, as I call Mr John McLaughlin at the Brass Rooster, has vintage Stratoliner flanges, so we reflanged it properly, and as for blocking... it does what it wants to do. It's not perfect but it resists what you want and does what it wants. You learn to live with it.

deadlyhandsome · Dec 2, 2020

I have a VS hat made using one of those vintage Mallory hoods/hat bodies. The felt is unexceptional and not a good ambassador for high quality vintage felt. As far as felt goes, I’d rather have another Winchester dress weight beaver. Or better yet, a 50% beaver FEPSA dress weight. I also have some older pre-Stetson Mallory hats where the felt is much better than my custom VS made from the vintage Mallory hood. I know much was made over those Mallory hoods when they surfaced several years ago, but I’m not particularly impressed. Still, it certainly isn’t at all “cardboardy.”

VetPsychWars · Dec 2, 2020

Aren't you the fancy pants?

I'm happy with my three because you aren't finding those colors today. As for "cardboardy", if they were stiffened with shellac like the old days, then they might be. I like a brim that makes noise when I snap it.

Terrier · Dec 26, 2020

I suppose a fedora hat without ribbon band is out of the question. I guess the meeting cut between the brim and crown needs the band, otherwise the hat will look seriously lacking.

Is it difficult to change band? The knot is not a real knot, is it? How do you fasten the band, with pins only, or glue too?

Is wide band more "city stylish", and thin band (like the Stratoliner) more for the "wild prairie"? The Stetson Playboy had an in-between width of band, that did not contrast very much with the hat, but was very close in color tone; was this to make the hat easier to wear for regular Joe? This is probably the way I want it; a strongly contrasting band feels a bit too daring for me.

belfastboy · Dec 26, 2020

Terrier said:
I suppose a fedora hat without ribbon band is out of the question. I guess the meeting cut between the brim and crown needs the band, otherwise the hat will look seriously lacking.

Is it difficult to change band? The knot is not a real knot, is it? How do you fasten the band, with pins only, or glue too?

Is wide band more "city stylish", and thin band (like the Stratoliner) more for the "wild prairie"? The Stetson Playboy had an in-between width of band, that did not contrast very much with the hat, but was very close in color tone; was this to make the hat easier to wear for regular Joe? This is probably the way I want it; a strongly contrasting band feels a bit too daring for me.

There are multiple ways to attack this. There are custom hatters that will make you a bow to your specifications. You then attach it....all it takes is a needle, thread and a bit of work, not too demanding at all. I can give you names of suppliers. If you decide to make your own...if that route I can point out a photo montage of how to and ribbon suppliers. Or you can send the hat out for a hatter to do it all.....the postage adds up quickly..

jlee562 · Dec 26, 2020

Terrier said:
I suppose a fedora hat without ribbon band is out of the question. I guess the meeting cut between the brim and crown needs the band, otherwise the hat will look seriously lacking.

Is it difficult to change band? The knot is not a real knot, is it? How do you fasten the band, with pins only, or glue too?

Is wide band more "city stylish", and thin band (like the Stratoliner) more for the "wild prairie"? The Stetson Playboy had an in-between width of band, that did not contrast very much with the hat, but was very close in color tone; was this to make the hat easier to wear for regular Joe? This is probably the way I want it; a strongly contrasting band feels a bit too daring for me.

The "bow" is a few pieces of ribbon that traditionally were stitched to the hat. On lower quality hats you sometimes see them glued on.

Re: styles, I kinda think you're over thinking it. We tend to say around here, wear the hat, don't let the hat wear you.

That having been said, let us consider some of those vintage Stetson ads to see how they were marketed:
High style!

Makes wives jealous even! Keep the box, because this hat is too classy to just hang around! (the Strat box also helped retain the deeper flange of the brim)

The Playboy was sold as very versatile as it takes a number of creases well. For everyone from college men to Hollywood stars.

deadlyhandsome · Dec 26, 2020

Terrier said:
I suppose a fedora hat without ribbon band is out of the question. I guess the meeting cut between the brim and crown needs the band, otherwise the hat will look seriously lacking.

Is it difficult to change band? The knot is not a real knot, is it? How do you fasten the band, with pins only, or glue too?

Is wide band more "city stylish", and thin band (like the Stratoliner) more for the "wild prairie"? The Stetson Playboy had an in-between width of band, that did not contrast very much with the hat, but was very close in color tone; was this to make the hat easier to wear for regular Joe? This is probably the way I want it; a strongly contrasting band feels a bit too daring for me.

Welcome!

For the most part there aren’t hard and fast rules, and what rules there are are often broken with complete impunity. Thin ribbons in the city are about as out of place as bluchers with a tailored suit...by which I mean few to no one will ever notice or care. I also like wide ribbons on some westerns. Wear what you like, it doesn’t have to be more complicated than that unless you are dressing for some formal occasion.

Tone-on-tone and low contrast ribbon is more conservative. I’ve had the ribbon changed out on many hats, but do to my skill set I’ve opted to pay professionals to do it. It’s not rocket science and it’s something you can tackle on your own if you feel up to it. Glue is usually found on very cheap hats and even mid-grade hats have the ribbon sewn on. The bow is a separate piece(s) from the ribbon.

I hope you share photos of your hats when you can.

Terrier · Dec 26, 2020

belfastboy said:
There are multiple ways to attack this. There are custom hatters that will make you a bow to your specifications. You then attach it....all it takes is a needle, thread and a bit of work, not too demanding at all. I can give you names of suppliers. If you decide to make your own...if that route I can point out a photo montage of how to and ribbon suppliers. Or you can send the hat out for a hatter to do it all.....the postage adds up quickly..

I like to fix things myself. (Besides, I don't think there is a custom hatter anywhere near me. There was, 50 years ago.) If something can be taken apart, I am usually able to put it together again. I would start with a length of ribbon, and see if I can make a nice looking bow for it. (Thanks, I really appreciate a photo montage of how to.) And if that doesn't work out, I will not remove the original ribbon from the hat.
But yes, absolutely, a ready made bow, from a special supplier or ever resourceful Ebay, if I can find it in the right width and color, would be a good idea to order, and then attach it myself.

deadlyhandsome · Dec 26, 2020

Terrier said:
I like to fix things myself. (Besides, I don't think there is a custom hatter anywhere near me. There was, 50 years ago.) If something can be taken apart, I am usually able to put it together again. I would start with a length of ribbon, and see if I can make a nice looking bow for it. (Thanks, I really appreciate a photo montage of how to.) And if that doesn't work out, I will not remove the original ribbon from the hat.
But yes, absolutely, a ready made bow, from a special supplier or ever resourceful Ebay, if I can find it in the right width and color, would be a good idea to order, and then attach it myself.

Just beware that not all types of ribbon are equally suited for hats. You might also try making your own bows; my wife did a few for me that turned out decent.

belfastboy · Dec 26, 2020

Terrier said:
I like to fix things myself. (Besides, I don't think there is a custom hatter anywhere near me. There was, 50 years ago.) If something can be taken apart, I am usually able to put it together again. I would start with a length of ribbon, and see if I can make a nice looking bow for it. (Thanks, I really appreciate a photo montage of how to.) And if that doesn't work out, I will not remove the original ribbon from the hat.
But yes, absolutely, a ready made bow, from a special supplier or ever resourceful Ebay, if I can find it in the right width and color, would be a good idea to order, and then attach it myself.

Check out FineVintageFedoras on Etsy.com & @purebeaver - Instagram. They will make a ribbon for you, open ended and all you need do is tack it to the hat. Use a small #7 needle, single strand thread and tack it in a few spots. If you decide to make it from scratch look on Etsy.com for grosgrain ribbon (they sell it by the yard and a yard is all you need). Don't buy grosgrain Petersham as that is for women's hats in the millinery trade. Tim @purebeaver has the photo montage of how to make a ribbon/bow on that site. If not google...'fedora lounge how to make a hat bow' and it should come up. Making from scratch is a little more involved. I find it fun to do and in the end it is mine (for better or for worse!) If I am doing it for myself I don't put near as many tacks in the ribbon as they do at a factory. If I find that the ribbon is moving I can always put in more.

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